US to Japan: The road to victory

[Rinsuku]

So i've been thinking (because of FM's thread). We need to point out things that the japs do that we don't. Character and non-character specific things. If we could list them out maybe we can identify the US' weakness and work on it. If you have any info/input throw it in here. I'll start it off: Non-character specific: Learn to beat the character and not the player. Don't worry about things they tend to do so much. Worry about what beats Baiken, not Hellmonkey. Stuff like that. Stop Jumping so predictably! Most US players love to jump (guilty as charged). We need to work on our ground game some more. Character specific: May - J.hs Destroys most characters. You just need to find a way to beat it then you should be fine mostly, since most of her other moves aren't as good.

[RoBoBOBR]

point out things that the japs do that we don't.

Japs pwn.

[Rinsuku]

Japs pwn.

T_T Obviously.....

[Villainous]

Stop Jumping! Most US players love to jump (guilty as chargede). We need to work on our ground game some more.

You kidding me? Half the players there were in the air, dashing around like 90% of the time. Just stop jumping predictably.

[Rinsuku]

Well I just wanna make a compiled list of problems. I'll change it.

[Doomscyther]

Learn to slashback May JHS .

[FlashMetroid]

Learn how to space properly - A poke could be good but if its not used at the right distance your taking away what made it so good ((Ex Kys 5hs properly spaced its unchallangable and will get you CH)) Learn when to do something - Theres a right time for everything if the situation doesnt call for something dont do it ((Ex Pixie Character in close range on someone at this point your suppose to block unless you have a faster poke then the character which you probably dont)) Go for max damage when you get a chance - Exactly what it sounds like anytime you get a hit for max damage Learn how to block - Self Explanatory Learn how to burst - Theres always a correct time to burst ((Ex a non jump cancelable move, OTG, at the end of the match when you have no choice)) Learn how to FD CORRECTLY - When you FD you dont just hold up until they are faw away thats a waste of bar you have to know what you wanna FD ((Ex Jam block string on the floor you FD her 5hs, 6hs FD anything else is a waste) Learn WHEN to FD - Just becuase someone is in on you doesnt mean you have to FD if your not in danger of anything whats the point? ((Ex Ky doing something to you midscreen the blockstring is gonna die soon no real danger watch for a grab or a gap)) Train yourself to Anti Air - Self Explanatory Practice your execution - 10 Minutes in training mode isnt training if you cant hit your combos atleast 9/10 times go practice cuz you dont have them down Learn your match ups - Match ups are not all played the same some you have to run away, some you have to rush, some you have to zone also some pokes are good in some match ups others arent as good ((Ex Jam I run away from potemkin but I rush ky in. I use 2s agianst ky but i would never use it agianstl)) Learn your mixups - Learn your mixups the spacing, the situation, understand the threat of going for it, understand the possibilities and be ready to react to them ((Ex Anjis butterfly mixups agianst sol off lets say a throw you throw the butterfly when anji is running up obviously right off the bat the threat of a VV is there you have to decided wether you wanna go in or bait, also the character has the option to IB back dash, jump fd, or block and DA you have to be ready to counter all of these when you go in dont expect them to just sit there and block like a scrub not saying that they wont but if they dont and you werent prepared your mixup goes to shit)) Learn other characters mixups - If you dont know what other characters are gonna go for more than likely your not gonna block it plain and simple Learn how to use gaps - Gaps are used to restart pressure mainly with fast recovering pokes or pokes with alot of block stun ((Ex Jam can do anything into wiff 2p and run back in for pretty much free if it wasnt expected and if it was then good for them my pressure is over)) Learn how to IB Learn when to IB Learn when to back dash Learn how to Bait burst Learn how to slash back Learn when to slash UNDERSTAND WHY YOUR LEARNING ALL THESE THINGS Finish later

[Rinsuku]

Pretty much. A good way though is to give some examples maybe.

[Zinac]

In general, most american players need to work on their defense.

[Rinsuku]

In general, most american players need to work on their defense.

And many other things which Flash is pointing out.

[Digital Watches]

And many other things which Flash is pointing out.

What I see in flash's post is: Be solid in your execution and matchup knowledge, and work on defense (Including offensive defense, like burst baiting and mixup).

It's good advice, really.

[Mike Z]

Learn what to do when. According to the 2nd-place team at SBO, Potemkin Buster is useless. (^.^) This doesn't mean it's actually useless, it just means situations to use it didn't come up in those particular videos. (Not that I entirely agree it didn't, though.) Going an entire match, or even a few matches, without using something you know is good is not a sin. Also, remember you have moves even when you aren't using them - the threat of your doing something can be as good a tool as actually using the move. And if they forget you have it or become confident you wouldn't use it, then that's a perfect time to use it. :^) Mike Z

[Hellmonkey]

In other words you have to bait pot buster every time or your okizeme will turn into 3x the damage you might have dealt, except on you. D:

[4r5]

But American players have crappy execution, so not only do you have to bait a PoteBuster, but you also have to simultaneously bait a 6P and a 214P, cause they might botch the PoteBuster So many matches lost, because people can't do PoteBuster...

[Digital Watches]

But American players have crappy execution, so not only do you have to bait a PoteBuster, but you also have to simultaneously bait a 6P and a 214P, cause they might botch the PoteBuster

So many matches lost, because people can't do PoteBuster...

I think that worrying about people who win by sucking isn't a good idea. Anyone who can't execute is more easily beaten, one must simply vary their strategy. Usually, this is actually easier to do than to work with what one would otherwise do.

[RabiteCake]

But American players have crappy execution, so not only do you have to bait a PoteBuster, but you also have to simultaneously bait a 6P and a 214P, cause they might botch the PoteBuster

So many matches lost, because people can't do PoteBuster...

if you lose to one 6p or 214p from a crappy player, that pretty much tells me that there were a lot of other mistakes that you made to even get to that point. gg is the sort of game where random attacks often connect, but your overall play should counter that.

i think that the problem with american players is that they are all dumb, and im the only genius apparently.

[Digital Watches]

Eheh. All player egos aside, bad execution isn't one of those weaknesses that can be turned into a strength unless you let them. If they can't execute, just rely less on prediction and more on conservative play (throwing out things that will beat almost anything they try, or avoid it alltogether) and reaction.

[4r5]

Hey, guys. I'm joking. But maybe you are too Internet. But good points about something were mad.

[FlashMetroid]

Eheh. All player egos aside, bad execution isn't one of those weaknesses that can be turned into a strength unless you let them. If they can't execute, just rely less on prediction and more on conservative play (throwing out things that will beat almost anything they try, or avoid it alltogether) and reaction.

If you cant execute dont be an idiot and play something like eddie or venom

play potemkin or faust its very simple

[Tiamat]

I think ideally you want to know how to fight against a given character well so you go into the match with a plan, then you should be able to somewhat auto-pilot the anti-character stuff while trying to read your opponent's moves and adapt accordingly. Sadly most American players (myself included) just don't have good anti-character skills against most of the cast.

[Hsien_Jo]

Ive read some of these posts about coming together to get better and work on our flaws. Ive also noticed that theres alot of bashing, flaming, dickslinging (namely over use of ego), and negativity that won't get any of us anywhere. Rather than saying American players are idiots or unskilled (which seems to be understood by anyway), why not continue to encourage the ones that are aware. Even if you are a so called "genius," you can't take on an army by yourself, this is real life not anime. Are we gonna come together like the forum is meant to do, or are we gonna continue to flame and bitch (We can go to the Sticky for Whining and Crying for all that.)? I hope its not the latter :/. Forgive me for the rant. One of the major things I can think of is execution. As the dude with the Kick Ass Rock Lee avatar said If you get your combo off 9/10 times you still need more practice on it. Not only should you practice combos, but situational moves (what I call random hits). You should try to get off as much dmg as you can with what ever hit you connect since hi-level/tournament matches can be dominated by a single hit. A good example: when I play some one thats damn good in GG its fcking rare to get off a standard combo. I use May so 9/10 I can only do dmg after nailing someone with a j.HS, random 5HS, Applause to the Victim (aka Dolphin from the Hollahoop), or an VDolphin for either anti air or overhead purposes. Right now im focusing more on being aware of an opening along with execution because once AC came out Ive had to worry more about execution than anything else cause I have alot of things to change. After that I think its getting as much battle exp as you can to see where you stand and what you lack. Rinse, Repeat, check your flaws and consult your peers like were doin now. To everyone out there good luck, try your best, and remember what makes you buck about your favorite characters.

[Digital Watches]

Ive read some of these posts about coming together to get better and work on our flaws. Ive also noticed that theres alot of bashing, flaming, dickslinging (namely over use of ego), and negativity that won't get any of us anywhere. Rather than saying American players are idiots or unskilled (which seems to be understood by anyway), why not continue to encourage the ones that are aware.

As good as encouragement is, we need improvement more. In my experience, regardless of skill or intelligence, you CANNOT motivate a player. They have to be self-motivated, period.

Even if you are a so called "genius," you can't take on an army by yourself, this is real life not anime.

Um. Are you stupid? Sorry, but this also isn't a fight. It's a 1v1 fighting game wherein stamina will never feasibly come into play, so actually, assuming that they're a better player, one person can take on a gigantic amount of people without losing. Just look at what Japan did at Evo last year. I'm not saying anything that anyone is actually that good in America (probably not), but damn, your logic sucks, no offense.

Are we gonna come together like the forum is meant to do, or are we gonna continue to flame and bitch (We can go to the Sticky for Whining and Crying for all that.)? I hope its not the latter :/.

Eheh. The internet's like that all over. Let's just hope that some good will come out of this thread DESPITE the flaming and bitching.

Forgive me for the rant. One of the major things I can think of is execution. As the dude with the Kick Ass Rock Lee avatar said If you get your combo off 9/10 times you still need more practice on it.

Alright.

Not only should you practice combos, but situational moves (what I call random hits). You should try to get off as much dmg as you can with what ever hit you connect since hi-level/tournament matches can be dominated by a single hit.

While I think that defense is more lacking in the American scene, knowing what to do in given situations is probably a good idea too.

A good example: when I play some one thats damn good in GG its fcking rare to get off a standard combo.

Interesting. That's a problem. The reason combos are "standard" or "Bread and butter" is because you're SUPPOSED to be able to get them off in a LOT of situations. If there's a problem doing that, there's probably a more significant flaw in your approach or matchup knowledge.

I use May so 9/10 I can only do dmg after nailing someone with a j.HS, random 5HS, Applause to the Victim (aka Dolphin from the Hollahoop), or an VDolphin for either anti air or overhead purposes.

Or the command grab, plus it's not as though May is particularly bad in terms of Abare in general.

Right now im focusing more on being aware of an opening along with execution because once AC came out Ive had to worry more about execution than anything else cause I have alot of things to change.

I dunno, AC seems a little less execution heavy than other iterations, so a lot more focus can (and should, IMO) be put into strategic stuff. While it is VERY important to have your execution down 100%, that's definitely not the only thing Japan has on us, and I'd argue that it's not even the most significant.

After that I think its getting as much battle exp as you can to see where you stand and what you lack. Rinse, Repeat, check your flaws and consult your peers like were doin now.

That last part is very important. As much as can be said for trial and error, there are just too many options and too much variability to viably be able to figure out on one's own what it is that they're doing wrong. Maybe they even have the right idea, but are missing some important factor.

[Hsien_Jo]

As good as encouragement is, we need improvement more. In my experience, regardless of skill or intelligence, you CANNOT motivate a player. They have to be self-motivated, period. Um. Are you stupid? Sorry, but this also isn't a fight. It's a 1v1 fighting game wherein stamina will never feasibly come into play, so actually, assuming that they're a better player, one person can take on a gigantic amount of people without losing. Just look at what Japan did at Evo last year. I'm not saying anything that anyone is actually that good in America (probably not), but damn, your logic sucks, no offense. Eheh. The internet's like that all over. Let's just hope that some good will come out of this thread DESPITE the flaming and bitching.

Alright. While I think that defense is more lacking in the American scene, knowing what to do in given situations is probably a good idea too. Interesting. That's a problem. The reason combos are "standard" or "Bread and butter" is because you're SUPPOSED to be able to get them off in a LOT of situations. If there's a problem doing that, there's probably a more significant flaw in your approach or matchup knowledge. Or the command grab, plus it's not as though May is particularly bad in terms of Abare in general. I dunno, AC seems a little less execution heavy than other iterations, so a lot more focus can (and should, IMO) be put into strategic stuff. While it is VERY important to have your execution down 100%, that's definitely not the only thing Japan has on us, and I'd argue that it's not even the most significant.

That last part is very important. As much as can be said for trial and error, there are just too many options and too much variability to viably be able to figure out on one's own what it is that they're doing wrong. Maybe they even have the right idea, but are missing some important factor.

Criticism well noted and accepted, sometimes my logic doesnt always go through, I just am the type of person that hates when people put down others when they dont have to. So some of that Is more of personal opinion. I denote flaming because I feel that its a waste of time and energy. Its easy to call someone stupid, but if you see someone that is uninformed or missing the picture why not try to educate rather than put down? Show the person your point of view rather than stuffing it down his or her face? We can't band together or even make good friends at least if we are making fun of each other and throwing negativity around :/.

When I said one person can't take on an army I wasnt talking about in terms of a tournament. I assumed we weren't talking about getting one person to beat everyone. We were talking about getting a group of people together to better each other so that one or more of us can succeed. That is what i meant when I was trying not to emphasize the individual persay. The previous topic that this thread spun off from was called "A Call to Arms <---not the 'S'." So i assumed that this was meant to be an effort to bring people together and not......a person. As someone mentioned before, you can practice all you want but until you get real practice verses skilled opponents you wont reach another lvl. It takes more than yourself to succeed if you look at it that way.

When i said "standard combo" I mean a combo done with no wake up, traps, air dash in, or anything. Just a combo that you do rushing in or standing. Not saying the execution is hard, saying it actually hitting unblocked pixelated flesh being hard.

I appologize again. If you see my title, it says" Stranger than an Otaku, so somethings I say might not be on the same wave length as others.

[Doomscyther]

Hsien, it wasnt hard at all to understand what you meant. Alot people take things seriously, instead of understanding what is said fully, cause it takes longer to think.

[Hsien_Jo]

Hsien, it wasnt hard at all to understand what you meant. Slot people take things seriously so they have something to post about .

I understand, I didnt mean to get out of hand. I just don't like people putting others down. As serious as the topic is I think that we should at least give others a chance and try to at least befriend a person or two.