Dacidbro Posted August 22, 2010 Posted August 22, 2010 You're exaggerating certain parts of the matchup and forgetting about other truly miserable aspects of bang. His DD's are all wakeups, but Steel Rain is a shitty one, Ashura is a very very close range one (loses to correct spacing 100% of the time) and Daifunka is horrifically unsafe on block (And if Bang uses it while in the corner, he's eating a 2C fatal corner combo for it if he fails, or burning a full bar of meter to rapid). So, his distortions are not the focus of this being a bad matchup. Poison nail dash beating A DP anti air, floating in too low to be hit by B DP without incredible yomi and too low to be hit by C DP always is a big problem; anti air-ing bang is very very hard even before you calculate his extra air dash. Bang has a command grab that's very hard to get out of, does half your health with meter (Although jin has a very strong universal option on defense, gives him an edge on most characters for that. IB D DP is a life saver for Jin) Really, the biggest problem in this matchup is that Jin relies on meter and Bang relies on nails, meaning Bang is extremely strong at the beginning of the match, and Jin only becomes strong after he has successfully blocked or landed hits a few times. The longer a Jin player can drag the match out, the better his odds of winning are; but even with meter, Bang is stronger if he has meter and nails. So it's very uphill.
smooshman Posted August 22, 2010 Posted August 22, 2010 snip I don't like to think about the truly bad things.... like having to essentially change my block stance every other move, and how at the same time I have to look for holes and make sure a command grab isn't coming.... or how those three nails can cover a shockingly large portion of the screen, or how GP's mess with my pressure and have to react to that change. When Bang jumps I just run away, I can't do anything, he's going to be somewhere doing something and there's nothing I can do, JC will probably whiff, and so will everything else, so I just run, sit, pray, block, and hope the other guy gets lazy. Ragna though I still feel is worse. I just get shutdown go to the corner and hope I can block pressure forever, Jin loses footsies 90% of the time, ice swords can't keep him away, and no meterless options to deal with pressure (623C will whiff, and you will die from FC 5K... unless he has meter then you're totally dead). And Litchi is....just.... I... I- I don't want to talk about it. I haven't had the chance to fight a good Bang so my thoughts could change.
Master Bigode Posted August 22, 2010 Posted August 22, 2010 You should teach the japs how to use it then.
Skye Posted August 22, 2010 Posted August 22, 2010 Don't need to, I've collected that info watching the jps play.
Master Bigode Posted August 23, 2010 Posted August 23, 2010 Don't need to, I've collected that info watching the jps play. Are you referring to 1:05 of this match ? Because Kaqn could have escaped that by just back dashing, or back throwing and then barrier blocking the nails.
huey253 Posted August 23, 2010 Posted August 23, 2010 and then, he would have been forced to block, and its free mixup for bang. steel rain isn't reliable for much of anything but it does have its moments where it shines
Master Bigode Posted August 23, 2010 Posted August 23, 2010 By back dashing he wouldn't be forced to block anything, and by dashing then back throwing, the mix up would surely not be guaranteed. At least not like it was in that match.
mAc Chaos Posted August 23, 2010 Posted August 23, 2010 He wouldn't have made it far enough if he backdashed, I think.
mundus Posted August 23, 2010 Posted August 23, 2010 Steel Rain is always good to use in the corner now when it doesn't go away when Bang gets hit. The exception would be vs characters with a fast backdash and Hakumen also if you are facing away from the corner most characters can just dash out, but they still have to deal with Bang.
Master Bigode Posted August 23, 2010 Posted August 23, 2010 He wouldn't have made it far enough if he backdashed, I think. Ragna's backdash can aways evade the steel rain if done as soon as possible. I guess the only exceptions are when he is doing a forward dash or recovering from something.
Master Bigode Posted August 23, 2010 Posted August 23, 2010 Surely not as fun as making useless posts. And god forbid us from theory fighting on a thread that is mostly about... theory fighting.
A.X.I.S. Posted August 23, 2010 Posted August 23, 2010 even if he back thrown bang he would still have to block mix up.
huey253 Posted August 23, 2010 Posted August 23, 2010 well, steel rain is absolutely useless unless you A. Have a good setup for it. B. Use it as a reversal. and both of these are like corner only.
A.X.I.S. Posted August 23, 2010 Posted August 23, 2010 the point of steel rain is to spite tager. 6.8k off a command throw B nail and nail rain.
currentlemon Posted August 23, 2010 Posted August 23, 2010 Do you guys think that Makoto is Rachel's only good match-up in this game.....or is it just me?
farranpoison Posted August 23, 2010 Posted August 23, 2010 What? Makoto's got the damage output that Rachel can't compare to. And lobelia spam keepaway tactics only work for so long. Plus, I think Makoto's 2A may beat Rachel's 2A, but take this with a grain of salt.
zeth07 Posted August 23, 2010 Posted August 23, 2010 the point of steel rain is to spite tager. 6.8k off a command throw B nail and nail rain. And how many times have you seen that in a match? 0. How many times have you seen that in a combo video? 1. Bang has to have 12 Nails and 100% Heat for it to work and reach 6.8k. I'm sure it can work with fewer nails but then it's lower damage which depending on how many nails makes it not even worth it. That is basically just for trolling the crap out of a Tager. Very few Bang's would even attempt that in a match. And very few Bang's would even still have nearly enough nails to make it worth it. I was gonna say people complaining about Steel Rain now amazes me, but at this point it doesn't. EDIT: Just for a reference - Command Throw>RC>Air Back Dash/Back Jump>Daifunka>small combo = 5.5k for 100% Heat / No Nails / Works on Everyone. And even that might not be worth it considering how much he can do just off the Command Throw>RC>Combo for just 50% Heat.
ZONG_one Posted August 23, 2010 Posted August 23, 2010 2 days of not checking this thread and you guys are talking about virtua fighter being a good game? ....? BTW that game sucks ass.
Shugotenshi Posted August 23, 2010 Posted August 23, 2010 By the time Bang has 100%, they should die just from that since it's unburstable, no? heh
Kuuhaku Posted August 23, 2010 Posted August 23, 2010 Do you guys think that Makoto is Rachel's only good match-up in this game.....or is it just me? No. Makoto's everything beats Rachel's everything. Orb > Seeds. Makoto's oki game is better because of orb. Makoto's normals and damage output are way better than Rachel's. It's probably another 4:6 or 4.5:5.5 for Rachel. At the moment it doesn't seem like one of those bang head against the wall match ups, but it's by no means a good match up. Then again... with Makoto evolving the way she is, this could change.
mundus Posted August 23, 2010 Posted August 23, 2010 I swear that Rachel when played right, is harder than Tsubaki and Noel for Tager.
seyu Posted August 23, 2010 Posted August 23, 2010 is it hard to be harder then tsubaki or noel for tager? i mean at leas rachel can zone...a bit
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