BB:CS Match-Up Chart

[smooshman]

Sooooo... no new tier list yet?

besides the new one?

no

[Skye]

The new tier list is more akin to SJ's character ranking, not an actual tier list, unless those top players incorporated the accumulated match ups when ranking the character.

[whitevoid]

The new tier list is more akin to SJ's character ranking, not an actual tier list, unless those top players incorporated the accumulated match ups when ranking the character.

tomaytoes tomahtoes. i would actually say that the new tier list is actually a tier list, whereas the old one is just a match-up chart. match-up chart is more in theory whereas tier is more in practice.

[Jason D.]

I swear that Rachel when played right, is harder than Tsubaki and Noel for Tager.

I've been saying this for a while. Tager is actually a good match-up for Rachel. I wouldn't say positive for her, but definitely closer than most other match-ups. And sure Tager can out-damage Rachel, but hey, what's new for her? Don't get grabbed. The important thing is, she has the tools to counter his stuff, and she can actually lock him down really well.

[Leo7]

Rachel vs Tager is 5-5.

[Spirit Juice]

Yeah I wouldn't say she has a good match up with Tager. Part of the reason why Tager vs Rachel zoning in CT was so hard for Tager was because of Rachel's 6B. Since 6B is 100% worthless now, Rachel can't really effectively punish Tager for B Sledge unless she's perfectly spaced.

[Skye]

tomaytoes tomahtoes. i would actually say that the new tier list is actually a tier list, whereas the old one is just a match-up chart. match-up chart is more in theory whereas tier is more in practice.

I always saw a tier list as an accumulative match up chart dumbed down with rankings.

Of course as time progresses, characters and tiers change the more is discovered about them that changes a few match ups, for better or for worse.

Sure it's a list in theory, but it's reflected from what is seen in practice.

[currentlemon]

Rachel vs Tager match-up in my opinion is 5.5-4.5 Tagers favor.

[Afrikaan]

I think Rachel v Tager is a solid 5v5. Rachel can still keep Tager out, but her damage is still lol, espicially considering she can't do anything significant to Tager off a 6B counterhit anymore and Tager's gigantic amount of health in general. Once Tager get's magnetism Rachel is in for a world of hurt, and she simply can't keep up with his damage output.

[A.X.I.S.]

5.5-4.5 for tager...rachel has to be mad careful though and if she is magnetized mid screen she is in serious danger.

[mundus]

2C beats out sledge on reaction and if Rachel is sitting on 50 heat that can actually lead to "decent" damage (3k). The problem though, is when Rachel got a life lead, its hard for Tager to even hit her if she is played right. I still say its slight favor for Tager though, due to specific combos and she is pretty much helpless when magnetized.

[Soniti]

I think Rachel vs Tager isn't any closer then 4-6.

I blame Mike Z, j.2c being super punishable on block no matter what you do (360a/720 beats everything including 2c), and 6b being worthless for this opinion. Also 4b is so slow that it causes you to eat a 360a on reaction. Tager's massive amount of HP and huge stock of primers doesn't help, either.

[Dacidbro]

6B hit confirmed with 50 meter is like 3.5k.. not THAT worthless.

[huey253]

6B hit confirmed with 50 meter is like 3.5k.. not THAT worthless.

meh its useless, but i'll let a rachel player explain why

[Dacidbro]

The only reason it would be completely worthless is if you couldn't hit confirm it and it had no priority.. those both not being the case, it has a use. Rare, but it exists.

No reason to deny yourself tools when you're already a terrible character.

[currentlemon]

Well let's see. 6b can be canceled to, 236a, lighting when near a pole, BBL when near a pole (about 2.4k with one pole) adding 6c with wind will make it probably 3k, a starter if Rachel is close enough due to Tager's large hitbox, or Tempest Delilah, but it has to be lvl.3 or 4 to make it worth it(about 2.5k with a lvl.4 TD don't know about lvl.3) adding 6c with wind will make it around 3k.

[whitevoid]

I always saw a tier list as an accumulative match up chart dumbed down with rankings.

Of course as time progresses, characters and tiers change the more is discovered about them that changes a few match ups, for better or for worse.

Sure it's a list in theory, but it's reflected from what is seen in practice.

If that's what you're calling it, then you're saying it's the same thing.

I just say in theory because it assumes optimal and even play which isn't typically the case. A match-up list is more just a starting point then an ending point because it can't (and shouldn't) accommodate contrary notions. So if you look at people who listed Tager higher in their eyes then on a match-up chart what they are saying is reflecting, not necessarily a difference in the match-up technicalities, but just how those technicalities play out over the reality of non-optimal non-even play.

[Dacidbro]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure the 3.5k was level 4, lemon. 2.5 sounds about right for a level 3.

Still, it does damage. :/

If used right the psychological effect can be greater than the damage itself (IE Tager gets scurred of using his tools, is crippled for it)

[Skye]

If that's what you're calling it, then you're saying it's the same thing.

At the end of the day, it is.

I just say in theory because it assumes optimal and even play which isn't typically the case. A match-up list is more just a starting point then an ending point because it can't (and shouldn't) accommodate contrary notions. So if you look at people who listed Tager higher in their eyes then on a match-up chart what they are saying is reflecting, not necessarily a difference in the match-up technicalities, but just how those technicalities play out over the reality of non-optimal non-even play.

Well a tier list is composed from the highest level of play, not necessarily even, because there's no set way to determine how much better one player is from another.

That's why tier lists change over time.

[currentlemon]

Its 2.5k after Rachel's 6b>lvl.4 TD Dacid. Its 2.1k from a lvl.3 TD

[Heroic_Legacy]

If Rachel lands 5B on Tager with 50 meter Tager loses 1/3 of his life and Rachel has 30 meter and oki. Her combos can hurt.

[MisterBadguy]

Worst case scenario on CH 6b is that you get a few frames of stun to either a) try to mix-up on him (bad-ish idea) b) try to get away (better-ish idea). It's still pretty terrible, but it has it's uses.

I agree with Dacid here. She's a terrible character. The only way you're gonna win at all is if you take full advantage of everything she has.

[HiagoX]

I agree with Dacid here. She's a terrible character. The only way you're gonna win at all is if you take full advantage of everything she has.

Uh... isn't that what everyone does, or try to do at the very least?

[smooshman]

Uh... isn't that what everyone does, or try to do at the very least?

no, not Bang, or Litchi, they just need the same 2 tricks and win.

[HiagoX]

no, not Bang, or Litchi, they just need the same 2 tricks and win.

If you want to remain a scrub for all eternity, then maybe.