Coopa Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 A lot of tager players seem to be having trouble in this matchup. I'm not 100% sure why, but I can see it being fairly odd compared to the rest of the cast. Is there a Mu that lives in California, preferably Northern California, that would like to practice with me on Xboxlive? If so, could you please add me? Xbox live: IPWCoopa
cookiehours Posted May 30, 2011 Posted May 30, 2011 I've always wanted to learn Mu since CS1 so I'm pretty much fulfilling my dream now. I know some of her combos but I need to get better in certain matchups. So far, I'm okay in Hakumen matchups.
Zeromus_X Posted June 2, 2011 Posted June 2, 2011 (edited) Messing around in the lab, came up with some silly mixups and other stuff, tell me what you guys think. After combo ending in 3C, 5D... ...IAD jA/B/C/2C ...IAD empty jump 2B/6B/throw ...TK 236A ...jump cancel j2C ...jump cancel j2C, 236A ...jump cancel j2C, RC, airdash jA/B/C or empty jump 2B/6B/throw ...IAD back 236A (bait roll/reversal) 5[D]... ...TK 236A (charge laser hits, go in for mixup) Tager only fuzzy guard?...: 9 jump jA, slight delay jB, jA, 5A, combo...? (can only get 3C knockdown so far) 5D, DP, RC... ...non dash 2B (confirm into combo) ....dash 6B or 6A (confirm into combo) I know it sounds silly, but I think there's potential in this. After 5D, cancel into DP and RC. Need to test it against wakeup reversals but this seems like a good way to get another orb out safely. You can even do this in a blockstring, if you're really close after 2A or 2B. You might be wondering, "why use 50 heat just to get one extra orb out?" Well, Mu gets a retarded reward off a bomb or guard crush so I think it's worth breaking as many guard primers as possible. At the least, even if the DP combo doesn't do much damage, you knock them down with even more steins waiting for them when they get up them closer to guard crush/danger mode if they block or confirm into a high damage combo if they hit. If they block, you can still do a mixup with 2B or 6B and be able to confirm into a combo if the mixup is successful, or go into further pressure if they block with the aid of the placed stein. DP CH, RC combo (if they try to punish 5D): 623C CH, RC dash 5B OR 6B OR non-dash 2B, 6A JC j2C jD [2B 5C 2C JC j2C...] or [2B 6A JC jC j2C...] (~1.8k knockdown) Non-CH, having some difficulty with the same combos but you can still do DP, RC, 5B or 6A jB jC j2C 3C without the additional mixup factor if they block. Edited June 2, 2011 by Zeromus_X
FlyingVe Posted June 2, 2011 Posted June 2, 2011 Regarding the meme, I've noticed guard crush has become a major strategy with me. Regarding the rest, I will have to see how they work against a live opponent. How well do they work against general disrespect? You know, up-back, DP, roll, Backdash.
LunaKage Posted June 2, 2011 Posted June 2, 2011 Good news guys, I have concluded that Tsubaki is the new Ragna, not Mu :D Fuck Tsubaki. Also I need to play a good Mu who's plan isn't to up-back all day *coughJagocough*
LunaKage Posted June 2, 2011 Posted June 2, 2011 See you at Evo? Psh, like I would take my free ass to evo. Maybe next year though, when I have time to make myself less embarrassing to the fighting game world.
Aginor Posted June 2, 2011 Posted June 2, 2011 Good news guys, I have concluded that Tsubaki is the new Ragna, not Mu :D Fuck Tsubaki. Also I need to play a good Mu who's plan isn't to up-back all day *coughJagocough* .......... Go to Japan and play if you want to play Mu's that don't hold up back all day. Or you could alternatively go to PNW...
LunaKage Posted June 2, 2011 Posted June 2, 2011 PNW sounds like a good idea, one of my favorite Noel underlings lives there, also COR is there and he's a sexy beast. Agi lives in Cali, but I'm pretty sure most of Cali hates me :v
C0R Posted June 6, 2011 Posted June 6, 2011 First post of new servers. This character is dumb. Mu for top 5. I love it.
stinkymonz Posted June 7, 2011 Posted June 7, 2011 (edited) I'm equally as happy as you are about CS2 Mu but not as confident about calling Top 5. Mind expounding that opinion? I suppose one thing is that she has legit situations where people HAVE to block the overhead and not auto-jump/DP out of the mixup. And awesome anti-jump options/punishes. Also, oops if you were facetious. Also I think I figured out what happened in that picture pktazn posted a while ago (which I can't find, search engine). It seems if you have a 236D out and you're interrupted as you set more stein(s), that stein is ignored. I have a replay of it, I can upload it if I can remember how I used to capture vids before. (also, haven't tested for consistency in training mode. just fyi it happened in a real match.) Eh and is there an updated CS2 list of Mu's legit blockstrings on barrier/normal/IB and the frame gap between gatlings if they weren't legit? Edited June 7, 2011 by stinkymonz
C0R Posted June 7, 2011 Posted June 7, 2011 (edited) Was quite serious actually. Let's compare; All of her combos end in hard knockdown and strong oki, including the ones maximized for damage. Most characters have to sacrifice one for the other. Damage output is enormous both with and without meter, rivaling Makoto in top-end corner damage and losing only to Hazama midscreen with equivalent starters. Negative penalty resistance, coupled with noncommital zoning facilitates and the best air backdash/ground backdash in the game allows for a very strong runaway game. Range and speed of normals, when taking into account their reward is more than strong. She has some of the best pokes in the game in 2b/5c/j.c. Meter gain is arguably the highest in the game, tied with Hazama's, comparable starters build just as much, if not more meter. Highest damage punish tool in the game, coupled with good reversal super and dp breaks the risk/reward tables. Presence of delayed projectiles that don't vanish when receiving damage. Those are the factual reasons I would consider her top5, she competes with everything the strongest characters do on even footing. On more theoretical side of things, lack of bad matchups is key, especially considering that she can be viewed as a counterpick for almost all the top tier characters, excepting Jin. Her capability for adaptation, via unique stein placements/delayed projectiles and enders allows the character to find solutions for problems that others just have to swallow. I could go on, but that's it in summary. As for your question on blockstrings, the most important note is that the 2b > 5c > 3c string is completely gapless on IB and ends on a jump cancelable normal. As for a complete list I'm not sure one exists at the moment, but you can always refer to the framedata. Edited June 7, 2011 by C0R
FlyingVe Posted June 7, 2011 Posted June 7, 2011 All of her combos end in hard knockdown and strong oki, including the ones maximized for damage. Most characters have to sacrifice one for the other. Many of her combos certainly do, but I would argue the standard A>B>C>SoD combo isn't special Damage output is enormous both with and without meter, rivaling Makoto in top-end corner damage and losing only to Hazama midscreen with equivalent starters. Her damage is certainly stupid . I'm not sure what you mean by equivalent starters though. P1/P2? sure. But Hazama can do it off a chain hit or reversal, same with Makoto except she can do it off pretty much any button. Negative penalty resistance, coupled with noncommital zoning facilitates and the best air backdash/ground backdash in the game allows for a very strong runaway game. Agreed, but I think some characters really screw with her keepaway. Range and speed of normals, when taking into account their reward is more than strong. She has some of the best pokes in the game in 2b/5c/j.c. Her good normals are really good, but her others are lacking, not a big deal though. Meter gain is arguably the highest in the game, tied with Hazama's, comparable starters build just as much, if not more meter. It certainly can be amazing Highest damage punish tool in the game, coupled with good reversal super and dp breaks the risk/reward tables. 6C, is great but it's not very flexibly, it punishes extremely punishable stuff, SoD and 5B are better, but you need a corner. Presence of delayed projectiles that don't vanish when receiving damage. Random thoughts, feel free to respond, I'm pretty sure your ahead of me on Mu at the moment. I was thinking about the Top5 comment. I think the top characters are: 1)Makoto 2)Hazama 3)Jin 4)Tao 5)?? So yeah, she could be in that 5th spot, but I don't think she would be the same tier as the other 4. Also, while she doesn't have many bad matchups at the moment, as the game develops I can see some characters giving her trouble, even if nowhere near CS1 levels.
C0R Posted June 7, 2011 Posted June 7, 2011 Discussion is key yo, I here's my feedbackback. -The ghetto marvel combo that everyone has midscreen is never spectacular, I was more referring to "real combos" (ie. more than 5 hits). -Hazama chain hit is actually really bad prorate, Jayakou is even worse, Haz/Mu/Mak get about the same damage off 5b/5c and midscreen CH. -The only character I've ever had troubles with in the keepaway game is Bang, but he's always going to do his thing. -IB > Backdash > 6c works wonders, you might want to fiddle with it in the lab All your points are more than valid, and I think it can be agreed that all of her weakness are more than outweighed by her strengths. I think it takes a lot to run her at full power, even I still have trouble implementing all of her tools, but her capacity is just so deep.
FlyingVe Posted June 7, 2011 Posted June 7, 2011 Yep, that's why it wouldn't surprise me to see her at 5th spot. And also why I don't think Noel will remain top for long. About the Magic combo, yeah, but I still feel that's gonna be a significant chunk of your hits. As for matchups, the characters that I think can screw with the zoning are: Bang, Tao, Hazama, Lambda. Bang you just run his nails out and it's not so bad, the hazama matchup isn't awful but you have to play different, Lambda is a momentum thing just like before. Tao, is our only legitimately bad matchup (imo) there is no way for Mu to keep her out or get in, plus she has great pressure/mixup/damage.
C0R Posted June 7, 2011 Posted June 7, 2011 My main source of Tao xp is a rarespawn for me, even though he's good enough that I only need a game or two to see her at full power. Problem is I've only played against him once or twice in CS2, so I'll defer to you on that one. But damn, 236a is so godlike in the Lambda/Haz matchups now, they may still be out of favor, but they're so much easier then they used to be, they feel in mu's favor, if you know what I mean.
FlyingVe Posted June 7, 2011 Posted June 7, 2011 I know what you mean, and it's all 236A, I swear that's now one of the best moves in the game. Mu is just like, "arrow of heaven... deal with it!". It's absolutely what makes those matchups better. THough, when I think about it, I still think Hazama is 5.5-4.5 against us, but that isn't bad at all. Lambda was even in the last game, now, we probably have a slight edge because she lost her DP. Hitting her once can lock her out of the rest of the match, and our ability to hit her got much better. 4.5-5.5 our favor. Bang... Fuck Bang... It's really a simple matchup, just an annoying one. 5-5 Tao... Tao beats us at everything... I hate it... It's probably only 6-4 against, but it might slip to the dreaded 3.5-6.5 range. I really feel you'll want a counter pick for this one. I hope I'm wrong, or just missing something.
C0R Posted June 7, 2011 Posted June 7, 2011 The Tao matchup is sad, not in the sense that it's super super hard from a mechanics standpoint, but rather that you have to really badly abuse the few things Mu is better at, almost completely forsaking everything else. j.c, airthrow, one stien at a time :C
FlyingVe Posted June 7, 2011 Posted June 7, 2011 Yeah, your right, sadly though, I don't even have a counter pick. Ragna lost some key anti-Tao stuff, and Tager... lol. Been messing with Hazama for precisely that reason.
C0R Posted June 7, 2011 Posted June 7, 2011 I don't have a sub yet either, ironically though the only character I would pick up is Rachel, and she has a lot of the same problems Mu does. Nooooooo Skye was challenged.
FlyingVe Posted June 7, 2011 Posted June 7, 2011 There's no shame in a counter-pick. Especially now that the game is so much less stupid, its a better idea than before. I think Jin and Mak would be the best subs (from a tournament standpoint) for a Mu main. But I don't like those two.
pochp Posted June 7, 2011 Posted June 7, 2011 I dunno I think you guys are forgetting Litchi and Carl. They're both characters who gain excellent oki without sacrificing damage off random hits midscreen. Mu feels more on the same level as Rachel, Arakune, Tsubaki, Platinum, Lambda, and Valk, which is still very capable of taking tournaments. Noel just gets too much damage off random stuff (2D) midscreen, as long as people make mistakes she'll be high tier. I'm thinking about subbing Litchi, does she cover some of Mu's bad matchups in you opinions?
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