[CS1] Hakumen vs Makoto

[mAc Chaos]

I suppose it had to happen sometime. Discuss the matchup here. This is for the Haku v Makoto matchup in BBCS.

[Ronin Jinobi]

Keep her stubby arms away from you and you'll have it made in the shade...

/little to no experience in this matchup.

but to be honest keeping out of her range seems to have been helping me win alot of these random ranked matches against makoto players. Then again not too many people have gotten good with her as of yet >_>;

[FullAutoDeath]

Her low slide goes right under 4C. Be careful when poking midrange because she can punish it. You can hit her out of it with 5C or 3C.

At point blank range Hotaru beats her fist super clean if you start it up before the super flash.

[mAc Chaos]

If she's holding 50 meter, watch out, because she can bust out that super punch distortion of hers at any moment, and it'll freeze you in whatever you're doing, you won't have time to recover. Even if you only have a jab sticking out you're going to eat a ton of damage. It can function as a reversal or full screen punish.

[ryokoalways]

The super flash last about 6F, followed by 4F of start-up. Several things to try out would be if you can kishuu under it (fairly possible) or cut it (Probably not, as I think it's a physical, not a projectile).

[gamera]

The blue fist counts as a projectile, just tested it myself. The Void eats it up just fine too. Makoto's actual punch during that super is probably physical so I'm not sure if the void will eat it as well.

[Yukikaze]

I think you could just cut a full screen Big Bang Smash on reaction... unless you were caught doing something stupid.

Anyway you guys should be watching out for 3C>Particle Flare all lvl3s = 4.5K...

[Sophisticat]

^ I doubt you can cut it on reaction. It is pretty fast.

From playing a couple decent Makotos online, I think I can say with some certainty (however much online can give) that Hakumen should have complete control of this match. Quite simply, she has no reach, and no real way to get in. Even if she does get in close, her mix-up sucks. Watch for the punch overhead, don't get hit by smash super, and know how her 3c and 3-Makotos illusion thing work. Also, at the right distance, her ball projectile is 4c reactable for a void disruption.

Be careful of jumping in because she has that air unblockable DP of hers. Always barrier, or j.D if you're confident. I disrecommend coming to Makoto; it's too easy to mess up and eat a parry loop. Let her work to get in, and punish with big damage of your own.

She has power, but, imo, she shouldn't be able to touch you once you know the matchup. S'all I got, hope it's accurate.

[DarthTrey]

your experience proves well in offline as well :P.

we have a couple here in orlando. the biggest thing is play against her like she has the touch of death. Watch her meter closely as this will determine how active you can be.

if she has 50% or greater don't IAD as you'll eat a super in the face(i find that just jumping forward to be a good bait at this early stage since most of them are way to antsy)

As for her being in your face, i recommend just stand blocking since her 2c is a lot slower than her overhead is. I've had moderate success with just standing full to 3/4th screen and j.c'ing at IAD height as it hits all air versions of illusion(b and c) and you recover fast enough to block any land versions. From mid screen i try not to poke out 4c because of her sweep/sweepCancel. and just try to create space(I feel most comfortable at 3/4th personally heh) ZONE TO THE MAX.

[entnervt]

Jump Ins with BG are imo a good way to bait her dp. It`s a free combo, when her dp is BG`d. After getting her with that a few times, she`ll think about using it again. Without it, she has no AA left in her arsenal.

[DarthTrey]

lol 6.A begs to differ.....

[Leonil_Requiem]

This match-up is going to take alot of time. I'm sure there's opening inside of her block strings that would allow a 1 frame counter. Also her left right mix up is alway a reset so there's counter opening #2. When your play a character like hakumen knowing what your opponent can do 85% of the time is a necessity. Also makoto's are stupid and don't respect our wake-up but thats an online issue I don't have to worry about it. ^_^

[Warhound]

IIRC, I managed to cut her super fist by accident once. It didn't do anything, still ate it.

[psycofang2]

depends on the distance you are from the orb. it cut her full screen DD and the orb appeared right in front of me and i was completely safe from it, i wasn't even all the way inside it. + if you were far enough that you can cut it you might as well block.

[Warhound]

depends on the distance you are from the orb. it cut her full screen DD and the orb appeared right in front of me and i was completely safe from it, i wasn't even all the way inside it. + if you were far enough that you can cut it you might as well block.

No, I think the situation was that she caught right in the middle of a j.C so, ther wasn't much I could do about it. So you have to be at least partially inside the orb in order to not eat the distortion, not just behind it?

[psycofang2]

ah ok i understand. but yes you can be partially inside it. her DD is a projectile. it protected me a few times.

[SansProtocol]

By the third match, I usually know when Makoto players are going to use their DD Punch or I try to bait them into using it if I have seen them try it in a certain situation before. However, when it happens, it's so awesome.

Hakumen don't care about your Anime Install! Get that ish out of here!

[zdravkelja]

I finnaly played against one pretty good Makoto last night. I think Hakumen shouldn't have any problems against her. She doesn't have range, Haku can keep her away.... Overhead punch can be easily punished with counter... She's very easy to read... Good match-up for Haku.

[MAdBater]

when she uses her projectile it is almost aways a free hit or void in this match up. Hakumen out zones her and you just have to wait for good punishes. I think you can cancel some moves with barrier block when she does the super punch but it might be something else that make it so i can block the special when i already comited to an attack. watch out for going under your 4C when she does that ground slide spin.

Edited November 29, 2010 by MAdBater

[geobuster]

Hello,

I would just like to say that after some training mode experiments, I have concluded that Hakumen's 6B (Overhead Stomp) is probably a extremely good counter to Makoto's 3C (Slide Trip).

Makoto's slide on both attack and feign has a very large number of counter hit frames and a slightly smaller hit-box toward the end of the slide.

This means that Hakumen can very easily do 6B (which is invulnerable to low attacks) on reaction to the slide's start-up and consistently get a 1 hit counter hit, at which point it is then possible to link into 5A or 2A and get a combo off.

The follow-ups that are possible are heavily dependent on the spacing after 6B hits (5A when close, 2A when far).

So far I have been able to do:

1750-1800 dmg meter-less (5A once or twice into air combo)

2800-3000 dmg with 3 stars (5A or 2A > 214B > 214A > 66 > 5A or 5B > air combo)

and 5500-6000 dmg with 7 stars (5A or 2A > 214B (1 hit) > 41236C > 5C* > 623AA > BnB)

*requires 41236C to be delayed slightly

I do not recommend trying (6B CH > 2A > 214B (1hit) > 623AA > BnB) in a match as is only possible at a certain range (almost max range of 6B hitting, but not quite as 214B will whiff if too far) and the timing it strict as most of my attempt at it have ended with Hakumen crossing under and whiffing the attack. Deals 4040 damage off of 4 stars if you manage to land it though.

I haven't gotten a chance to try this against any Makoto players yet. But as good as it looks I wouldn't be surprised if 3C is all but forgotten in most Mak vs. Hak matches.

Sorry if this was a bit long, this is my first post on Dustloop.

[WallJumpMan]

hahah geobuster ur avatar is legit

[Nini Heart]

Haku can cancel airdash with J.D counter. Do that when you're airdashing and she does her BBS.

Also her left right mix up is alway a reset so there's counter opening #2.

This is not a good idea. Don't forget that she can throw you into 3.5-5.5k depending on whether she has meter, so trying to use counter on her mixup might not be a good idea. Especially considering that those counters are easily baited.

[qwerty]

are you guys still using counters on anything but reaction?

and honestly guys neutral game vs makoto = free as hell. if you know how to use j.C in every other matchup that isn't arakune/hazama you should have no problem keeping mak away.

and her mixup isn't that good either (from what i've seen, at least. point me in the direction of a japanese makoto if you think i'm wrong), just train yourself to react to overheads like every other matchup.

[HiagoX]

are you guys still using counters on anything but reaction?

and honestly guys neutral game vs makoto = free as hell. if you know how to use j.C in every other matchup that isn't arakune/hazama you should have no problem keeping mak away.

and her mixup isn't that good either (from what i've seen, at least. point me in the direction of a japanese makoto if you think i'm wrong), just train yourself to react to overheads like every other matchup.

Pretty much. Makoto's mix-up game could be called good if it wasn't easily punished like it is.

Wait, what are you doing in a BB matchup thread?

[BladeOfJustice7]

Is her air tail attack (j2c I think) plus on block? I wasn't able to find in the makoto forums. And yea makoto's mix up isn't threatening.