kenn305 Posted October 1, 2010 Posted October 1, 2010 Honestly, I dont really care about damage nerf. Litchi was never a heavy hitter character to begin with, the only thing I care is her Oki game. so if arcsys is smart (they are...I guess) they will leave that part untouched or just different. What are you saying. Litchi averages 4-5k worth of damage AND OKI. most of the chars averages just 3-4k.
Diveman Posted October 1, 2010 Posted October 1, 2010 did you actually played her in CT? she wasnt about damage, it was all about carring them to the corner and okizeme.
Fieryelf Posted October 3, 2010 Posted October 3, 2010 I though she was fine in CT, the only thing i wanted was an over head since everyone knew what was coming, either a 3C or a 41236 D C. I was happy with the 6A chaining into a combo, but i can live with just 4D. Hopefully now she'll be used less and I'll be able to go back to playing her... I hate playing the flavour of the month
NeroTulip Posted October 3, 2010 Posted October 3, 2010 I don't like the changes either. If she needs nerfing(and she does), can't they just make some of the more advanced combos impossible? Having to relearn all her bnb combos seems pretty unfair especially for people like me who don't have that much time (and yes I'm a noob before you ask). And it's not just relearning her combos, I believe JC was an essential part of her game, and with that threat gone I for one will have a very hard time hitting the opponent. Also, sorry if I'm being a little insulting as I'm new here, but some of you guys seem really insecure. The whole "great, she's garbage now so people will think I'm cool for using her" thing is quite pathetic... Anyway, I guess I'm just a bit bitter as my two favourite characters (Litchi and Rachel) were overly nerfed. They're interesting characters, with interesting mechanics, and they have to be at least somewhat rewarding because of how much work you have to put in to make them good. They both "deserve" to be top tier Regardless I'll stick with them.
Poizonous Flour Posted October 3, 2010 Posted October 3, 2010 In my view, it is way too early to be talking about the changes... especially since this is only phase 1 of the tests. We all know that Litchi's main game is just wall carry to lockdown. In CS, they also... accidently, gave her a very very strong mid-screen game. From CT to CS, Litchi got an overall buff from it. While a great number of characters got nerfs. In all honesty, CT Litchi is my favorite Litchi by far. In CT, she actually tows the line between a broken and a bottom-of-the-barrel character quite well. In CS, she is decent to strong in every respect of her game. Being overpowered is a recipe for a huge nerf in the next set. Her game will change in CS2, and there is going to be a lot of changes we don't like. They are making her more in-line with everyone else, and trying to take out the broken elements of the characters. Litchi was always the most broken during wall-lockdown, even though it was the only thing she had in CT. In CS, we already lost a bit of wall carry thanks to losing Manten return on our regular moves... j.C is the next step toward that movement. What you learned in CT and CS isn't a waste, the knowledge that you got from learning those combos is guaranteed to come in handy for the next version when we need to find out new ones. We just have to wait to see the changes, and adapt. PzF...
Nakkiel Posted October 3, 2010 Posted October 3, 2010 I'll be able to go back to playing her... I hate playing the flavour of the month Why can't you play her now? Especially considering she's hardly the 'flavor of the month'. Despite being top tier she's still one of the least played characters, from what I can see. In CS, we already lost a bit of wall carry thanks to losing Manten return on our regular moves... She hasn't lost wall carry at all, considering she has full-screen carry combos.
Lord Knight Posted October 3, 2010 Posted October 3, 2010 ITT lets talk about how much we liked CT more than CS This is dumb, closing until the next loketest
TeeJay Posted October 19, 2010 Posted October 19, 2010 Is there any news about how her staffless gatlings have me increased? How exactly does she combo now? Forgive my ignorance; I'm just a lowly CT Litchi scrub. (CT combos in CS lol)
unsanctifier Posted October 19, 2010 Posted October 19, 2010 Well you Litchi fans got some pretty cool buffs. She seems to have a bit of a different combo style now. Actually, its starting to look pretty interesting. We'll see some new BnBs and pressure strings especially with the itssuu followups always dropping staff. Dunno what to make of it all, I'm not a Litchi player per say, but now I'm slightly interested...What are you guys feeling from Loke3?
rinuskoe Posted October 19, 2010 Posted October 19, 2010 pretty much the only thing i'm bitter about is the loss of cancelling into itsuu, which was an impt part of our combo. and it's not jcc-able either. but hey, she has itsuu doing 2hit regardless, and faster staff set. i don't mind that. but overall i think it's going to be pretty interesting i guess. i think she'll do fine regardless of the changes so far. as long as she still has oki, she is manageable. then again that is what litchi was supposed to be. they probably overdid it in CS1 by giving her cancels (she used to have such lousy blockstring, but now it's just too godly) and new moves (good ones too). @TeeJay: staffless gattlings doesn't change much i think. i know she can do 2b -> 5b now, but i think that's all. i just hope that they don't overdo the nerfs and make her the new rachel (as of now, she's still far from it yay).
Urichinan Posted October 23, 2010 Posted October 23, 2010 Loketest 4 j.C[m] Wallbounces on CH. 6B[m] Auto launches opponent, wallbounces on CH? (They weren't very clear about this when they were translating) Good changes in my opinion, either give us back j.C[e] or Itsuu combos and we'll be fine. I'd rather have one or the other though, I'd actually prefer j.C[e] combos back myself, it would give us a lot more option in the corner off of 4D since that seems to be our main combo point now. I'm thinking (Corner) 2C > 4D > Haku > Hatsu > Riichi~A > Ippatsu~A > Iappatsu~B > Hatsu (x2) > Riichi~A > Ippatsu~A > Ippatsu~B > j.C > 4Kote > Falling C > 3C > 2D > 6C? This combo actually works in CS1 and does about 4.3~4.5K and gains close to 50 Heat. It could be a good combo in CS2 to work with.
Shinkada Posted October 24, 2010 Posted October 24, 2010 This combo actually works in CS1 and does about 4.3~4.5K and gains close to 50 Heat. It could be a good combo in CS2 to work with. I know this is going to get called a troll instantly, but it's not, I really am curious; do you guys remember what BB's balance is? Hakumen takes at least 3 magatamas to do 4k damage, and he's slow and has barely a thing to deal with zoning so you'd expect his damage to be well above average. Hazama can't even get above 2.5k unless he's got 50% gauge or fairly strict positioning. Tager can hit 4k but with his speed and options his damage should probably be the highest of the cast. Tsubaki... Well, we know she's only above Rachel, but even so her damage is miserable. Even Bang doesn't see much above 3k unless he cracks out Daifunken. The way BB's damage goes, 3.5k seems to be the average without meter. Considering that her meter gain is among the best of the cast, her okizeme IS the best of the cast, and her zoning certainly isn't bad either, her combo damage really shouldn't be more than about 3k. ... And you're saying, "Yeah, 4.5k is alright"? Like I know you're used to 5.5k but you've got to realize that's a big, big part of why she's S-Tier, and the part that should be removed to make her B-Tier (as opposed to keeping absurd damage and lowering her oki). And yes, I know her execution is very difficult, but it's not so difficult that a lot of people can't get it down to a 100% success rate, so as much as it's hard on new players, that means she has to be in line with everyone else. I don't want to see Rachel handing down the wheelchair but I also want to see S-Tier just abolished, and keeping it to a nice tight A, B and C tier.
Nakkiel Posted October 24, 2010 Posted October 24, 2010 Apparently you missed the whole optimal starter and corner only part. I for one don't really care about less high damage opportunities but I'm pretty put off still with j.C]m[ nerf, since getting damage + oki is basically impossible now. At least from what I can theorize, maybe I'm missing something.
Shinkada Posted October 24, 2010 Posted October 24, 2010 From Ragna's patch notes, I think he'll probably be getting, roughly, low 3k's midscreen and high 3k's/low 4k's in corner. Someone with as much area control as Litchi doing more damage than Rags would be pretty silly.
Nakkiel Posted October 24, 2010 Posted October 24, 2010 On average. 2C is not an average combo starter against skilled players. It's 100 p1. That's a corner only combo and so far no strong midscreen combos have been discovered. Ippatsu A has positive proration in CS and in CSII the same-move proration has been removed. The combo is likely to do more off of 2C, however again, I'm not concerned over her damage at all.
Poizonous Flour Posted October 24, 2010 Posted October 24, 2010 I know this is going to get called a troll instantly, but it's not, I really am curious; do you guys remember what BB's balance is? Hakumen takes at least 3 magatamas to do 4k damage, and he's slow and has barely a thing to deal with zoning so you'd expect his damage to be well above average. Hazama can't even get above 2.5k unless he's got 50% gauge or fairly strict positioning. Tager can hit 4k but with his speed and options his damage should probably be the highest of the cast. Tsubaki... Well, we know she's only above Rachel, but even so her damage is miserable. Even Bang doesn't see much above 3k unless he cracks out Daifunken. The way BB's damage goes, 3.5k seems to be the average without meter. Considering that her meter gain is among the best of the cast, her okizeme IS the best of the cast, and her zoning certainly isn't bad either, her combo damage really shouldn't be more than about 3k. ... And you're saying, "Yeah, 4.5k is alright"? Like I know you're used to 5.5k but you've got to realize that's a big, big part of why she's S-Tier, and the part that should be removed to make her B-Tier (as opposed to keeping absurd damage and lowering her oki). And yes, I know her execution is very difficult, but it's not so difficult that a lot of people can't get it down to a 100% success rate, so as much as it's hard on new players, that means she has to be in line with everyone else. I don't want to see Rachel handing down the wheelchair but I also want to see S-Tier just abolished, and keeping it to a nice tight A, B and C tier. It isn't about the damage... it is fully about the execution here. It isn't the fact that in CS we took away 40% of the life bar per combo, it isn't the fact that we had insane corner damage, it isn't the fact that each combo gained insane meter so Litchi can basically do all her options every combo. Damage is the least bit of concern, they can nerf that and Litchi would still probably be A tier. It is the fact that all the work that we put into learning these new combos and moves of CS was a complete waste. It is the fact that they are changing Litchi's entire game play in the sake of balance. It is also the fact that we'll have to change our game play to fit the new Litchi, and many of us thought she was fine (execution wise) before the changes... whether you started at CT or CS. Ittsuu: I can live with... many can. We can cancel it now which just gave the move soo much power and options. j.C [nerf]: I can't live with... it was one of her staples for staffless. There was nothing wrong with the move at all. Altering the move regardless the damage is a great concern... The rest is okay. It isn't about the damage, it is about altering how she plays really... messing with staples is not a path I'd like to see Litchi go down. It is the same thing they did to Rachel... and look at how she turned out. PzF...
Nakkiel Posted October 24, 2010 Posted October 24, 2010 j.C [nerf]: I can't live with... it was one of her staples for staffless. There was nothing wrong with the move at all. Altering the move regardless the damage is a great concern... As of loketest 4 this has been reverted, according to the general nantoka blog!!
Urichinan Posted October 24, 2010 Posted October 24, 2010 Actually it was just found out that her j.C is untechable again, so as of right now she is more CT like... Which I think is a great thing! She seems like a mix between CT and CS Litchi, I can't wait to try her out! Edit: Ninja'd! Darn it sG!!
Nakkiel Posted October 24, 2010 Posted October 24, 2010 Gotta be faster! :P I'm really pleased for this reversion, I hope it sticks. I really like the way Litchi plays and her style and I feel that taking away j.C]m[ knockdown drastically changes her style (no corner oki and resets that we've been using since CT?). It was the only nerf I was really put off by when loketests first started and what I hoped to see reverted every new one. A dealbreaker I guess?
Lord Knight Posted October 24, 2010 Posted October 24, 2010 fucking shit guys can you stop worrying about how her combos are gonna be and how she actually might play? like wtf last version we lost a bunch of combo options and in this game her combo/hitconfirm options are obscene people will always make up new combos stop being retarded
Shinkada Posted October 25, 2010 Posted October 25, 2010 fucking shit guys can you stop worrying about how her combos are gonna be and how she actually might play? like wtf last version we lost a bunch of combo options and in this game her combo/hitconfirm options are obscene people will always make up new combos stop being retarded Man you're lucky, if I ever said that I'd get flamed to hell in three seconds dead. That's basically it though, oh no, jC isn't godtier. How will I ever move on, other than, I don't know, using a different move? It's not as if jC has some amazing and unique property that makes it interesting or somehow suit Litchi's style, it's just a normal that's brokenly good. God forbid you might have to use 2C instead. Pressing down instead of up? World over guys.
rinuskoe Posted October 25, 2010 Posted October 25, 2010 @shinkada: for one, litchi's staffless jC is just like mu's j2C or 3C (assuming you use mu, judging from your ava). making it techable removes a lot of options for her. debatable whether this is fair or not, but the point is that it is kind of special. and comparing with 2C isn't fair as they are used for different things. anyway, back on topic: i'm still not sure what they want litchi to be =/ the 4th test seems to return quite some things she had.
ATGMantenbo Posted October 25, 2010 Posted October 25, 2010 I like where they're headed with litchi now ... itsuu second hit coming out on block is great for pressure, but does anybody know if it's RC'able?
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