[CS2] Hazama Changes Thread

[Warhound]

Also, since 5B > 3C > 236D > 5C connects in the corner I can assume that we can get to an aerial BnB from the ground, corner only.

[jetblaksuit]

It seems to me that the ultimate goal of most of the changes in CS2 is to make the game a bit more tactical.

[Urichinan]

Also, since 5B > 3C > 236D > 5C connects in the corner I can assume that we can get to an aerial BnB from the ground, corner only.

Yes, they said that his main way of setting up his air combo in the corner is from 5B > 3C > 236d > 5C > 2C > 4D~D j.B > j.C(x2) > jc > j.C(x5) > j.214B.

[Eclipse]

in the current CS loketest build, hazama has no way to go ground > air from midscreen unless it's from jayoku, bro.

214DC>6C>dash 2B>5C>2C>jyayoku>2DD>aircombo does approx 3800

Judging from that being possible, shouldn't it also be possible to do 3C > 6C > (Dash) 2B > 5C > 2C > 4D~D > new j.214B#

That would be a reliable ground to air combo mid-screen. Or if 3C doesn't work as the starter, just use 214D~C as the starter. I don't know why you'd use Jayoku after 5C > 2C. But I could be missing some subteties of the changes.

[Tetra - K]

No ground combo whatsoever?

'Cause it seems that appart corner pressure we'll get no damage and no tension.

Is there any bnb from ground that go over 2k at least (except from 214DC which is not safe)? Or is it like that for nearly all characters?

Edited October 29, 2010 by Tetra - K

[Black Onslaught]

That 214DC > Jayoku > ghetto air combo sounds like a waste of 50 meter, imo.

Then again none of us have touched the new version or know it's mechanics to assume it's a good use of meter though.

From what I remember the guys said Hazama can't go ground > air from midscreen, so I thought his point was to end in 236D since it slides them -- to press them into the corner to air combo now.

tbh, 3C > 6C combo sounds ghetto as hell, rofl.

[Tetra - K]

It would be nice to use that 6C. It was a pretty useless move in cs1.

[Redefinition]

Far more useful than 6B in CS1, at least. 6C gave some foot invuln, and had SOME use. Just not a whole lot. Don't know what to think about new combos. :/

[Tetra - K]

6B is nice for traps.

Specially with 6A ^^;

It would hurt me a lot to do combos like 5B>5C>3C>236D as bnb's xD

Well I assume that we have to think about that 214DC as beginner of combos.

Btw seems like 236D will be a key move. Nice thing since its skin is so cool xD

Edited October 29, 2010 by Tetra - K

[Warhound]

I just love the way Jabaki looks, I'm so glad it's gonna be really useful now.

[Black Onslaught]

I will tell you all the real function of 6B in CS1

6B : the move that comes out when you mess up 236236B

[Tetra - K]

Ahah, so true XDDD

But his 6B is so cool, with hands in pocket, it's the trollzama move.

Don't underestimate his 6B.

Look at that, can you still say it's a useless move? Oh boy...

This says "you're so weak I can fight you hand in pockets with the slower moves of my command list"

N.B : when high, it's a good thing to try 6A 6B , looks so cool.

Edited October 30, 2010 by Tetra - K

[J-KT21]

I will tell you all the real function of 6B in CS1

6B : the move that comes out when you mess up 236236B

This is gold. If I were rich, I'd give you a thousand dollars for this post. I so know how it feels to mess up a punishing Jayoku when the game is at a point where it says: screw up and you're dead.

[Redefinition]

I will tell you all the real function of 6B in CS1

6B : the move that comes out when you mess up 236236B

^Sig'd for truth.

[g.Bauer]

I will tell you all the real function of 6B in CS1

6B : the move that comes out when you mess up 236236B

True enough.

[Tetra - K]

Avatar'd for truth? xD

Back to the topic.

It seems arksys want CS more tactical, specially about bnbs which visibly won't be as powerfull as they were.

Not only for Hazama but for other chars as well, like Bang which palm thrust don't wall bounce anymore.

I wonder if it's really for all characters or only for a few. Anybody got an answer?

Edited October 31, 2010 by Tetra - K

[Warhound]

+ mid screen combos are pretty much 3C>214DA or Jayoku>214DC>6C>dash2B

Can someone explain how 6C works in a combo?

[Zidane]

6C knocks down.

[Black Onslaught]

6C knocking down now sounds ghetto as hell, but interesting at the same time.

[J-KT21]

Do you know how much damage would deal 2B > 3C > Jabaki (or 3C > Jabaki only)? Seems to me that Hazama's damage output will be crap. His j.C[nxx] was nerfed from 10 hits to 7 hits. I can only assume that his corner combos won't be as rewarding as characters like, say, Jin.

[Zidane]

Everyone's damage and midscreen combos were nerfed. Hazama should still be able to do Hotenjin relaunch corner combos that do slightly less damage.

[Klaige]

Full list of changes courtesy of Wuku in the Loke test thread.

- All D moves: Damage is decreased. Damage proration is increased. Startup is faster now. Hit-stun is still a lot less than CS. DA cancel is still faster than CS. 4DA > 4DD is still possible with very strict timing. No Ouroboros gauge back on block. You require more time to get the gauge back automatically.

- 5B: Attack lvl decreased. Looks like either - 2 or - 3 on block. Now Air Unblockable

- 5C: Now Air unblockable

- 3C: 214DC only connects on counter hit. You have no way to connect lvl 2 214DC

- 6A: knocks down on hit

- 6C: knocks down on air hit. No change on ground hit. Once air hit, knife binds you to the ground for certain frames. (way more fancier than Bang’s nails maybe?)

- JA: not jump cancellable anymore

- JC: Only first 2 hits are jump cancellable.

- Forward Throw: Damage is increased to 1800. (WTF?) Now air untechable. It connects to DDs only (sounds like you can combo into 632146C too). Forward Throw > Jayoku now works at the field too.

- Back Throw: Damage is increased to 1800. You can do followup combo with J6D to all characters.

- Air Throw: Ground bounce on hit. You don’t need J2D to do the follow up combo.

- 236D: Slides down on hit. Wall bounce at the corner.

- 214DC: Effect on hit is now similar to CS. Only difference is an opponent is spinning at air once hit.

- 214DA: you can’t do any followup combo with lvl 1 hit. Knocks down on air hit.

- 623D: You have now less time to do followup combo after this hits. Not sure the reason (maybe because more recovery?)

- 236C: you get 5% of meter gauge once hit

- 236236B: proration is increased. Repeat proration is added. *Rumor: Somebody said its invincibility frame is all gone so IB > Jayoku is nearly impossible now but very possibly it's not true.

- Misc: you can now do 5A (anti air) > 5C > 4D combo again.

I dunno guys. I'm looking for the silver lining here but this seems like it could be pretty bad for our friend in the Fedora. If the rumor about Jayoku having no invulnerable frames is true, that could be a bit much to overcome.

Granted tons of other things got the nerfbat, but this is looking rough at first glance. thoughts?

[J-KT21]

CS2 Hazama's new name is official Cornerzama. He either sticks people to corners and gets totally cornered (at least, if his Jayoku really does not have invul frames anymore.) Outside of that, he'll probably a bad zoner compared to say, Lambda.

[Critical Edge]

So I'm guessing that there won't be anymore 4DA > 4DA > 4DD combos anymore? But I guess it's pretty nice that we still have a way to do Hazama's old BnB if you can connect 214DC off of a CH 3C:

CH 3C > 214DC > 5C > 2C > 4DD > j.B > j.C x 2 > j.c > j.C x 5 > 214B

Then again, should it even matter? We'll have to look for new BnBs on Hazama anyway when BB:CSII drops.

[Edge Reaper]

I say we take a page out of Tager's book and do nothing but pokes and grabs.