BBCS II Loctest Discussion ~not "Complaining"~

[ZONG_one]

Well, scrubs think Noel is cheap. So she gets nerfed.

I mean, the invincibility is a pain sometimes, but it's far from cheap. But I doubt ASW care.

The thing is, ASW doesn't take into consideration the opinions of scrubs in rebalancing the game.

[Black Onslaught]

what do they take into consideration then?

i remember hearing that for SSFIV they nerfed some of Rose's shit after a talk they had with Daigo about the matchup or something.

[KayEff]

I thought the point for BlazBlue was to make fighting games easier to scrubs and people who never touched a fighting game.

[Seifuuku]

bbcs is catered to a somewhat more casual audience than GG.. they probably listen to some casuals/scrubs so they can learn what makes their game feel boring/cheap at that level of play.... probably barely actually implement the ideas though

i don't know, this is arc sys. they made hnk.

[Kuuhaku]

The thing is, ASW doesn't take into consideration the opinions of scrubs in rebalancing the game.

I'm pretty sure the train of thought behind Noel's changes was Mori's unhappiness with people not using Noel's drive much. Then they saw that people were using her normals more because they were good... unlike her drive. So... the idea is if they buffed the drive and nerfed her normals, people would use drive more.

Too bad her drive still sucks.

[Hecatom]

Well, scrubs think Noel is cheap. So she gets nerfed.

I mean, the invincibility is a pain sometimes, but it's far from cheap. But I doubt ASW care.

lol, ASW doesnt care what the scrubs think, specially usa scrubs

The thing is, ASW doesn't take into consideration the opinions of scrubs in rebalancing the game.

this

I thought the point for BlazBlue was to make fighting games easier to scrubs and people who never touched a fighting game.

perhaps, but their final market is the japanese arcade scene, so they are gonna address the problems that the japanese scene thinks that are important

bbcs is catered to a somewhat more casual audience than GG.. they probably listen to some casuals/scrubs so they can learn what makes their game feel boring/cheap at that level of play.... probably barely actually implement the ideas though

i don't know, this is arc sys. they made hnk.

yeah but the brokeness on hnk was unintentional, also, what can known a scrub about the game, just for example, all of them really believe that tager is the most broken character of the game and that he should be nerfed, do you really believe that they need to hear this stupid asses with that mentality

I'm pretty sure the train of thought behind Noel's changes was Mori's unhappiness with people not using Noel's drive much. Then they saw that people were using her normals more because they were good... unlike her drive. So... the idea is if they buffed the drive and nerfed her normals, people would use drive more.

Too bad her drive still sucks.

this, the only real "scrub" that we should be worried is mori, since he is the producer of the game

the only reason why noel sucks, is that he doesnt want her to be a top tier character

[farranpoison]

But they're nerfing Noel's drive even more, with less invincibility. Plus in CS 5D was like the best way to get off a combo. Doesn't make much sense for what they're doing now.

Also, I forgot Noel had a j.4D, lol. Never seen it used until I heard it being mentioned here. Chose Noel in training, pressed j.4D, and bam, hi there move I've never ever seen before. O_o

[LordSpectreX]

lol, ASW doesnt care what the scrubs think, specially usa scrubs

Then why is Tager still low tier?

[ZONG_one]

The thing is, ASW doesn't take into consideration the opinions of scrubs in rebalancing the game.

what do they take into consideration then?

i remember hearing that for SSFIV they nerfed some of Rose's shit after a talk they had with Daigo about the matchup or something.

So Daigo is a scrub?

They make changes they feel will rebalance certain characters, and they have loketests to blindly test them.

This is where they obtain their first set of feedback from top players.

They take this into consideration, and not as an end all - be all, and continue to make changes for Loketest #2.

I'm sure you understand from here, etc etc blah blah.

When they feel like they have a better balanced game, they'll put it out...

...only to realize they were wrong on a lot of stuff.. and bam.

BBCSIII.

[Hecatom]

Then why is Tager still low tier?

Henaki already answered this, no fighting game should have a top tier grappler, the thing is that tager relies heavily on magnetism guimicks that make him dificult to balance without making him broken, i just assume that they are affraid to make him truly op, and even when he basically sucks , the way that he can control the space with his magnetism can make the battle unfun to play if he is played right

edit

also the real problem with tager is the concept as a whole, big hit boxes, really low mobility, some crappy normals

to make him work, he needs a serious overhaul on what makes tager, tager

[ZONG_one]

Then why is Tager still low tier?

[farranpoison]

http://www.sirlin.net/storage/articles/potspriteani.gif?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=1224984561373

Someone give this man an internet.

Tager sucks because of how his playstyle is. One mistake and he'll be easily overpowered, so ASW likes to play it safe and keep him low.

[Hecatom]

http://www.sirlin.net/storage/articles/potspriteani.gif?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=1224984561373

that is all what tager aims to be

but being serious, i wouldnt mind that they make tager as good as potemkin, that is a grappler done right

Someone give this man an internet.

Tager sucks because of how his playstyle is. One mistake and he'll be easily overpowered, so ASW likes to play it safe and keep him low.

exactly, imagine how frustrating would be if tager would be truly broken, though as a tager player, i would love it

[smooshman]

POT

*trauma induced flashbacks*

Tager can never be high tier. EVER.

[Afrikaan]

The thing is, ASW doesn't take into consideration the opinions of scrubs in rebalancing the game.

Some of these changes make me think otherwise Zong lol.

POTEMKIN

Stay Godlike Zong. Stay fuckin Godlike

[Kuuhaku]

But they're nerfing Noel's drive even more, with less invincibility. Plus in CS 5D was like the best way to get off a combo. Doesn't make much sense for what they're doing now.

Also, I forgot Noel had a j.4D, lol. Never seen it used until I heard it being mentioned here. Chose Noel in training, pressed j.4D, and bam, hi there move I've never ever seen before. O_o

That was the idea between her CT -> CS changes. Just like the idea behind CT -> CS Rachel was that people weren't playing her like she was supposed to be played.

As for the changes that are being made now- no idea. It's a loketest. They're just throwing things at a wall. I mean, look at the idea that Rachel wasn't being played right, then look at the changes made to her for the first loketest. It's like a weird frankenstein version of CT Rachel.

If I had to guess- The change to 5D's invincibility was probably from the complaint that 5D being Noel's only answer to everything made Noel's gameplay pretty braindead. You just had to wait for something 5D could go through and bam! Combo. What they should do is give her back some of her normals and the overhead she lost in CT.

But... yeah, it's up to Mori what happens... or whatever angry individual is in charge of the balance changes.

[Hecatom]

Some of these changes make me think otherwise Zong lol.

changes at the 1st local test doesnt prove that, its a shame that neither of you were around for the local tests of SBX, there you would see how drastically the changes of the chars were between every local test

[DesmondWafers]

The thing is, ASW doesn't take into consideration the opinions of scrubs in rebalancing the game.

Even if so, their #1 concern isn't balance apparently. Fun comes into the equation.

I'll have you know that us tager players don't even know the definition of fun. All we care about is BALANCE AND WINNING.

[ZONG_one]

Well, losing isn't any fun.

[Sophisticat]

Regarding Hakumen's j.D not being combo-able anymore, I think they just wanted to give you a reason to use his other counters. Now, I'm not too wise on Hakumen's damage per combo, but I do know that a lot of people will do a just-off-the-ground j.D counter in EVERY opportunity when they want to counter. Why not? I mean, it'll go over lows, it's immune to throws, and it'll still counter anything that touches it. Beats almost anything. It's clearly superior. So why ever risk using a normal ground counter instead? Granted, maybe ground counters in CS1 can lead to more damage, I don't know. But point is, now, if you want to do the incredibly more safe j.D counter, you still can, but you're not going to get any damage. And if you want to take a risk with a ground counter, and actually read your opponent correctly, THEN you can get damage for it.

Every counter has its uses. It's just that nerfing 5D and buffing j.D made it so it's better to use j.D instead. In situations where we used 6D or 2D before, we still use them there. They haven't been replaced at all.

And who says I can't get damage off j.D? I can net 4k+ with 2 stars alone, maybe 5k+ if I go for some 5c x2 links and I get a corner combo, but I can't check the damage on that atm.

Personally, I'd say give 5D a use and make j.D prorate a bit more. Then all counters would be balanced.

[iamkitkatbar]

Potemkin with magnetism drive

would meant the worst of days for BB:CS community

[mAc Chaos]

Then all counters would be balanced.

The counters were never unbalanced in the first place.

*rages*

[DesmondWafers]

Well, losing isn't any fun.

We're a masochistic bunch.

But being serious, tager's never going to be good. Even tagers hate fighting tager. In an offhand way, it is "Taking a scrub opinion into the balance" because they reason they won't buff him has nothing to do with the balance of the game. But, I realize the repercussions of a high tier tager.

[iamkitkatbar]

We're a masochistic bunch.

But being serious, tager's never going to be good. Even tagers hate fighting tager. In an offhand way, it is "Taking a scrub opinion into the balance" because they reason they won't buff him has nothing to do with the balance of the game. But, I realize the repercussions of a high tier tager.

Well high-tier tager couldn't be THAT bad

>assuming current build + combos into 360's +midair 360's have damage scaling

[Sophisticat]

The counters were never unbalanced in the first place.

*rages*

2D, 5D, and 6D, yeah. j.D was a joke, though. :P