New Guilty Gear?

[Nehle]

Dear Arcsystem Works:

Please put OUR BRO Daisuke Ishiwatari as the director of EVERYTHING in a hypothetical future Guilty Gear game. Fuck Mori, fuck that Pachi dude (I don't fucking care if he's a pro playa, HE DIDN'T CREATE THE GODDAMNED FRANCHISE AND HIS IDEAS ARE HORRIBLE AS FUCK, HE WANTS TO MAKE GG AL ANTERNATE BRAHZBLOO), I want to play a 100% full Guilty Gear game, not a dumbed-down version of it.

Sincerely yours, all the loyal Guilty Gear fans around the world

Daisuke had very little to do with Slash and almost nothing to do with AC IIRC

[AtTheGates]

who cares about art direction, it's all about gameplay. worst case scenario, they copy as much as they can from GGXXAC. wait, that's actually probably the best case scenario...

[Blade]

because asw wants money, and ez games that appeal to casual gamers = lots of it

Well, it's a see-saw between "what the gamers want" and "what the gamers would play". The scene leans towards high level play, so balance is usually a must, but a developer has to stick his fun (read: broken-ass Nintendo-hard SNK-boss) characters in somewhere.

I said it before and I'll say it as many times as is needed. BlazBlue is an excercise in development...in other words, any cool stuff they learned how to do in BB will definitely be cooler in GG. I'm calling it.

[qwerty]

if by cool stuff you mean make a bad game, then yeah

[Fenrir Werwolf]

Dear Arcsystem Works:

Please put OUR BRO Daisuke Ishiwatari as the director of EVERYTHING in a hypothetical future Guilty Gear game. Fuck Mori, fuck that Pachi dude (I don't fucking care if he's a pro playa, HE DIDN'T CREATE THE GODDAMNED FRANCHISE AND HIS IDEAS ARE HORRIBLE AS FUCK, HE WANTS TO MAKE GG AL ANTERNATE BRAHZBLOO), I want to play a 100% full Guilty Gear game, not a dumbed-down version of it.

Sincerely yours, all the loyal Guilty Gear fans around the world

He did it.

It was called GG:2 Overture.

[Sunnyday]

if by cool stuff you mean make a bad game, then yeah

why so pessimistic? T_T

[Hecatom]

because he dislikes BB and anything related to it

and though i like BB, i really want that GG stays with all what made it, there is no need on making the games similar (i know that they share mechanics, but they work different on both games making them have their own flavor)

[qwerty]

why so pessimistic? T_T

because as i explained in a post that got deleted ("trolling", i'm sure), bb has done next to nothing for the fighting game genre. mechanically speaking, it's introduced very little, and most of its aesthetic influences are bad ones (with the only real exceptions of the sprites themselves and the amount of color palettes for said sprites). if you disagree with that second one, go and play kofxiii for a bit; THAT'S how you make an hd 2D game.

i honestly wouldn't have even bothered responding to blade, but he's insinuating that blazblue has done anything significant for the genre, and worse yet, that the next guilty gear game will take cues from the "cool things" bb did. sorry, but that is so ignorant it hurts. even if you like blazblue, you can't deny that mixing the two would turn out a disaster (as blazblue is just a melty/arcana hybrid anyways, so you'd really be mixing all three of the main airdash series). if arcsys gives a shit about their flagship series, they won't dare turn it into upback fighter. but, i guess time will only tell.

anyways, my biggest problem with bb isn't really the game itself, rather the people that (don't) play it. it seems like the vast majority of people that are "playing" bb are just blowing through story mode and calling it a day. of course, the same can be said of guilty gear as far as the west is concerned, but guilty gear didn't set out to attract those people and turn them into actual fighting game players as blazblue did. and while i am glad there's been a handful of new, serious players (and honestly, those guys that have started scenes in places like michigan and toronto get serious props from me), blazblue has had a minimal impact overall. the western arcsys community may be a bit bigger than it used to be, but its presence in the fgc overall has barely grown, if it all.

can you understand that it may be a bit frustrating to see a new game come along, not be all it was chalked up to be, and fail to attract the players it promised to? for all its sins, i can at least tolerate sf4 because it got people in the west playing fighting games on a large scale again. of course, more people are playing mvc3 and mk9 these days, but the legacy of new age fighters belongs to sf4. meanwhile, there's more blazblue cosplayers than blazblue players at anime cons, and the game never took off like it should have. if it weren't for the scenes that HAVE grown as a result of blazblue (and i do acknowledge that it has had a positive effect in some areas), it would be nothing short of a total loss.

[Skye]

those guys that have started scenes in places like michigan get serious props from me

Yoink.

[qwerty]

100% serious too. it's hard enough to get basement dwellers in cali to play outside, i can only imagine what it's like to coordinate gatherings in larger areas with worse public transit.

(ofc, i don't mean that michigan is a bigger state than cali, rather that the areas in which people play here can pretty much be segmented into area codes, whereas i'd imagine most states have one or two central places to play)

Edited May 31, 2011 by qwerty

[Arvoyea]

100% serious too. it's hard enough to get basement dwellers in cali to play outside, i can only imagine what it's like to coordinate gatherings in larger areas with worse public transit.

(ofc, i don't mean that michigan is a bigger state than cali, rather that the areas in which people play here can pretty much be segmented into area codes, whereas i'd imagine most states have one or two central places to play)

I would but

1) I'm poor

2) No car

3) No job (yet)

4) more than half of norcal events happen in socal.

These factors contribute into me being able to go to NCI only once. And while there are some players in Sacramento, Regional Transit sucks now, especially with no buses going where anyone lives, and there are WAY more players for overhyped Capcom games/MK9.

[LunaKage]

Not sure what all this was about, but I am a non-GG playing BB player, and I can attest that mixing BB and GG would be a terrible idea, because then there would be GG in my BB, and then I wouldn't like it as much.

Also I fail to see how BB is a MB and AH hybrid, all three games play so different, and the A/B/C button layout is really no excuse :P

[Pestilence]

because as i explained in a post that got deleted ("trolling", i'm sure), bb has done next to nothing for the fighting game genre. mechanically speaking, it's introduced very little, and most of its aesthetic influences are bad ones (with the only real exceptions of the sprites themselves and the amount of color palettes for said sprites). if you disagree with that second one, go and play kofxiii for a bit; THAT'S how you make an hd 2D game.

i honestly wouldn't have even bothered responding to blade, but he's insinuating that blazblue has done anything significant for the genre, and worse yet, that the next guilty gear game will take cues from the "cool things" bb did. sorry, but that is so ignorant it hurts. even if you like blazblue, you can't deny that mixing the two would turn out a disaster (as blazblue is just a melty/arcana hybrid anyways, so you'd really be mixing all three of the main airdash series). if arcsys gives a shit about their flagship series, they won't dare turn it into upback fighter. but, i guess time will only tell.

anyways, my biggest problem with bb isn't really the game itself, rather the people that (don't) play it. it seems like the vast majority of people that are "playing" bb are just blowing through story mode and calling it a day. of course, the same can be said of guilty gear as far as the west is concerned, but guilty gear didn't set out to attract those people and turn them into actual fighting game players as blazblue did. and while i am glad there's been a handful of new, serious players (and honestly, those guys that have started scenes in places like michigan and toronto get serious props from me), blazblue has had a minimal impact overall. the western arcsys community may be a bit bigger than it used to be, but its presence in the fgc overall has barely grown, if it all.

can you understand that it may be a bit frustrating to see a new game come along, not be all it was chalked up to be, and fail to attract the players it promised to? for all its sins, i can at least tolerate sf4 because it got people in the west playing fighting games on a large scale again. of course, more people are playing mvc3 and mk9 these days, but the legacy of new age fighters belongs to sf4. meanwhile, there's more blazblue cosplayers than blazblue players at anime cons, and the game never took off like it should have. if it weren't for the scenes that HAVE grown as a result of blazblue (and i do acknowledge that it has had a positive effect in some areas), it would be nothing short of a total loss.

QFT.

A lot of my posts seem to get deleted. Some are out right trolling, other not. However it seems if you talk about how much you think BB sucks, it gets deleted. Almost like dustloop is paid to not let the cat out the bag about the game.

lol, I've put literally thousands of hours into the GG series (been playing since I was 18 and I'm 26 now) ...and still can't tell you what the hell is the story is about. Anybody who plays fighting games for story ...well you can play a game for whatever reason you like but I think you're missing the point!

It is frustrating too. I hate the fact that BB is now above the GG section. :/

[Fenrir Werwolf]

because as i explained in a post that got deleted ("trolling", i'm sure), bb has done next to nothing for the fighting game genre. mechanically speaking, it's introduced very little, and most of its aesthetic influences are bad ones (with the only real exceptions of the sprites themselves and the amount of color palettes for said sprites). if you disagree with that second one, go and play kofxiii for a bit; THAT'S how you make an hd 2D game.

i honestly wouldn't have even bothered responding to blade, but he's insinuating that blazblue has done anything significant for the genre, and worse yet, that the next guilty gear game will take cues from the "cool things" bb did. sorry, but that is so ignorant it hurts. even if you like blazblue, you can't deny that mixing the two would turn out a disaster (as blazblue is just a melty/arcana hybrid anyways, so you'd really be mixing all three of the main airdash series). if arcsys gives a shit about their flagship series, they won't dare turn it into upback fighter. but, i guess time will only tell.

anyways, my biggest problem with bb isn't really the game itself, rather the people that (don't) play it. it seems like the vast majority of people that are "playing" bb are just blowing through story mode and calling it a day. of course, the same can be said of guilty gear as far as the west is concerned, but guilty gear didn't set out to attract those people and turn them into actual fighting game players as blazblue did. and while i am glad there's been a handful of new, serious players (and honestly, those guys that have started scenes in places like michigan and toronto get serious props from me), blazblue has had a minimal impact overall. the western arcsys community may be a bit bigger than it used to be, but its presence in the fgc overall has barely grown, if it all.

can you understand that it may be a bit frustrating to see a new game come along, not be all it was chalked up to be, and fail to attract the players it promised to? for all its sins, i can at least tolerate sf4 because it got people in the west playing fighting games on a large scale again. of course, more people are playing mvc3 and mk9 these days, but the legacy of new age fighters belongs to sf4. meanwhile, there's more blazblue cosplayers than blazblue players at anime cons, and the game never took off like it should have. if it weren't for the scenes that HAVE grown as a result of blazblue (and i do acknowledge that it has had a positive effect in some areas), it would be nothing short of a total loss.

Marry me.

NOW

You actually said everything.

Someone said BB was the future because GG is "too difficult".

Well, it's true that BB is more accessible at the beginning, but what we prefer from a fighting game: one that is simple to begin with, but at higher level is just BORING and necessitate a new version every year, or one that may be more difficult to begin, but the more you go on one the more it shines?

I mean, i think I'll try to play some BB, it's actually a good BEU overall (surely MORE than AH or other useless BEU), but it would be just because I'm the only active player. In all my country.

Obv IMO

[Sunnyday]

*ship*

I understand now what you are saying here.

I have to confess, i play BB for a bit, than i quit on it for reasons of jobs/other games/ other hobbies and i sadly haven't come back towards the game.

I still feel more draw towards GG than BB, so a new GG will finally get me to play again.

Anyway thanks for replying.

[qwerty]

I would but

1) I'm poor

2) No car

3) No job (yet)

4) more than half of norcal events happen in socal.

These factors contribute into me being able to go to NCI only once. And while there are some players in Sacramento, Regional Transit sucks now, especially with no buses going where anyone lives, and there are WAY more players for overhyped Capcom games/MK9.

don't trip, i ain't callin you out. sac is a whole different story from the bay. and while norcal does travel to socal quite a bit, things aren't as bad up here as they used to be. still, it could be better. hopefully i'll be able to have people at my place a few times this summer.

[FormerlyUnknown]

well since it seems clear that gg > bb (i think it's a pretty stupid argument myself) I do have to say that there are SOME things that if there was a new GG, it could take from BB:

1) tutorial; blazblue seems to have done this the best out of any fighter (imo) and just the mode itself paired with training more is an excellent and accessible first step into learning the game, especially games with very in-depth systems such as bb and gg. I for one find the lack of explanation on the GG system (in game) to be one of the reasons I find myself struggling to learn the game, and having a nice simple mode to teach everything about a game is always a good adition to me.

2) challenge; also something blazblue has on other fighting games tech-wise (i prefer blazblue's greatly over street fighters and the like tho it is far from perfect), and a very very good way to introduce new characters and their playstyles to players (again paired with training mode). Of course we always have places like dustloop to teach players character bnbs, however I for one find it miles easier when such information is built inside the game.

3) visuals; yes guilty gear looks awsome. yes blazblue looks better. It's a difference in tech, comparing the visuals of an older generation game to a present gen game. If a new gg is given to us, I would love the 3d backgrounds of bb as well as the beautiful sprites (i love my pretty games).

4) story; yes yes the endless argument of story in fighting games, however I for one do enjoy the story (however confusing and minute) GG has, and looking over it it seems to have a fairly deep one at that and I would enjoy having more of it. Story if nothing else gives one a stronger bond to their characters, and I happen to enjoy such pleasantries, and being able to understand characters more than quick summaries and info that profiles and arcade endings can give.

f.u.'s 2 ¢

Edited June 8, 2011 by FormerlyUnknown

[qwerty]

1) tutorial

vf4:evo has the single best in-game tutorial of any fighting game, hands down. it also came out in 2003.

3) visuals; yes guilty gear looks awsome. yes blazblue looks better. It's a difference in tech, comparing the visuals of an older generation game to a present gen game. If a new gg is given to us, I would love the 3d backgrounds of bb as well as the beautiful sprites (i love my pretty games).

while blazblue is at a higher resolution, i actually prefer the aesthetic of guilty gear by a wide margin. not only are the sprites better animated, but the backgrounds are way, WAY better than blazblue's.

3D backgrounds can be done right in a 2D fighter; look at cvs2. those stages are more animate than most 2D stages. who can ever forget the fucking dune buggy flying over you on the desert stage? or the animatronic cowboy drinking beer? or the giant double decker? other than the windmill stage, i can't think of a single bad stage in that game.

then you have blazblue, where most stages are just still, lifeless 3D stock art that look like they were rendered on a dreamcast. seriously, how can you prefer this over this? the only stages in blazblue that kind of get it right are rachel's stage (which barely looks 3D anyways) and jin/noel's (again, barely any 3D). then you have stages like bang's and litchi's that are lifeless, but then you get this one part of the screen that WON'T STOP MOVING.

again, go watch a minute of kofxiii. tell me with a straight face that the stages in blazblue even compare.

[FormerlyUnknown]

bangs firework stage is pretty active, ya know with fireworks =o and your comparison should have been jam stage v litchi stage, just makes more sence, but i'm nit picking.

also with the kof13 thing, i looked at a few of the stages and all i can say it has going for it is shading and the amount of characters in the background (which if that is your definition of 'active', we have different points of view) so i still beleive that blazblue's are better, they just have more depth to them, perceived or otherwise, kof's stages just seem...small...and cramped with people so it's not as appealing to me . _ . <--- str8t face

also with the tutorial thing, i never played vf4:evo so i can't say anything about it, but i was just stating that out of the games i HAVE played that blazblue's tutorial seemed to be the most in depth and steady paced.

[danceljoy]

well since it seems clear that gg > bb (i think it's a pretty stupid argument myself) I do have to say that there are SOME things that if there was a new GG, it could take from BB:

I agree. BB has it's own achievements that GG can learn from (since BB learned from GG's achievements in the first place anyway.)

4) story; yes yes the endless argument of story in fighting games, however I for one do enjoy the story (however confusing and minute) GG has, and looking over it it seems to have a fairly deep one at that and I would enjoy having more of it. Story if nothing else gives one a stronger bond to their characters, and I happen to enjoy such pleasantries, and being able to understand characters more than quick summaries and info that profiles and arcade endings can give.

The reason I follow GG is because of the story, I'm not talented in it and nobody's playing it here. As for the story, it's a bit sensitive to compare the two, but I think the more proper way is to say that "GG could have have BB's story presentation"

For one to truly appreciate GG, especially the characters, one has to look at some side materials that a lot of people don't care about. Sadly, many side materials remain untranslated until now. If one doesn't listen to the Drama CD's, he'll miss around a a very huge part of Dizzy, Testament, Ky and Sol's character. The recently translated Night of Knives gives you a really broken background of Millia.

What Blazblue did better to GG in terms of story and character is to connect to its target audience. BB did it in two ways: the visual novel-ish story mode with lots of infos and the characters catering to appealing anime fetishes: zetta ryouki, pettankos, maho shoujo, elegant gothic lolita, shota etc. etc.

Here's a very opinionated rant of mine: I'm sick of people saying that BB is "darker, edgier and deeper" while GG is a relatively "happy" series. Being an anime critic, I say that BB is a shonen genre while GG could pass as a seinen series. Yes, I agree that BB has more woobieness and BB has more "disturbed" people like Jin, Hazama, Relius, Carl, Litchi etc. But the you don't have to be an adult to appreciate or understand those things.

However in GG, there's the whole religion and science theme. Man plays God, creates Gears, Gears kill people, a Catholic group saves humanity from extinction (but later you learn that this is because a "witch" saved a knight from dying.) Not to mention that a lot of characters want atonement for their sins like Millia, Testament, Faust and Sol.

Don't get me wrong, I like BB and I really think that GG should adapt some of BB's story-telling because GG does get confusing to people who don't read additional materials. But I just hate it when people (not you Formerly) think that GG's story is inferior because it doesn't have BB's story-mode, forgetting that GG is a lot older. Both stories have good and bad points and they are different. But I prefer GG mostly because it has universal themes, while I see BB just as a creative amalgamation of anime themes we see often.

/rant

[FormerlyUnknown]

exactly my thoughts on the matter, sorry i should have clarified the presentation aspect of the thing, my fault. But good man

also both games could do with some actually half decent anime cutscenes(looking at bb since gg hasn't had any of my knowledge [never played overture so can't be sure on that side] =p )...please...

[Pestilence]

One of the games had a little anime in it. not sure if it was x or xx.

[xlolxlolx]

guilty gear sex with still in the dark as bgm

[Fenrir Werwolf]

So, we talk about a new GG, and what do you all hope for?

Anime Cutscenes?

Story?

Online?

Is THAT you want in a BeU? Oh well

[destruction_adv]

I agree. BB has it's own achievements that GG can learn from (since BB learned from GG's achievements in the first place anyway.)

The reason I follow GG is because of the story, I'm not talented in it and nobody's playing it here. As for the story, it's a bit sensitive to compare the two, but I think the more proper way is to say that "GG could have have BB's story presentation"

For one to truly appreciate GG, especially the characters, one has to look at some side materials that a lot of people don't care about. Sadly, many side materials remain untranslated until now. If one doesn't listen to the Drama CD's, he'll miss around a a very huge part of Dizzy, Testament, Ky and Sol's character. The recently translated Night of Knives gives you a really broken background of Millia.

What Blazblue did better to GG in terms of story and character is to connect to its target audience. BB did it in two ways: the visual novel-ish story mode with lots of infos and the characters catering to appealing anime fetishes: zetta ryouki, pettankos, maho shoujo, elegant gothic lolita, shota etc. etc.

Here's a very opinionated rant of mine: I'm sick of people saying that BB is "darker, edgier and deeper" while GG is a relatively "happy" series. Being an anime critic, I say that BB is a shonen genre while GG could pass as a seinen series. Yes, I agree that BB has more woobieness and BB has more "disturbed" people like Jin, Hazama, Relius, Carl, Litchi etc. But the you don't have to be an adult to appreciate or understand those things.

However in GG, there's the whole religion and science theme. Man plays God, creates Gears, Gears kill people, a Catholic group saves humanity from extinction (but later you learn that this is because a "witch" saved a knight from dying.) Not to mention that a lot of characters want atonement for their sins like Millia, Testament, Faust and Sol.

Don't get me wrong, I like BB and I really think that GG should adapt some of BB's story-telling because GG does get confusing to people who don't read additional materials. But I just hate it when people (not you Formerly) think that GG's story is inferior because it doesn't have BB's story-mode, forgetting that GG is a lot older. Both stories have good and bad points and they are different. But I prefer GG mostly because it has universal themes, while I see BB just as a creative amalgamation of anime themes we see often.

/rant

Story is important for attracting new players to games, let's face it, some of the most popular games in Japan are just stories. Also, playing through story mode with every character is a nice, no risk way of feeling character's playstyles a bit. Thanks to AC+ story, I played everyone a little and eventually stuck with Sol (still suck at this game, and 8 hit grand viper is 3/10 times for me) but I know a little about eveyr character and their moves. Also, story mode told me Bridget was a boy, and that's valuble information. also, I think the real reason Guilty Gear didn't sell better than Blazblue was story attracts gamers (specifically rpg games) much easier than fighing mechanics. Everyone I know was ready to up and drop BB after story mode until I forced them to keep playing and got them addicted to training mode. There don't seem to be many more "serious" BB players (let's just say tournement players) than there were GG players in it's golden years (it's an old game now so the decline is a bit understandable) oh well, going to get my friends to play some GG and give BB a rest for a while. I want to be as confident with Sol as I am with Bang.

EDIT: forgot to mention, what I want in the next GG is better storytelling, a useful dragon install, Sol and Ky at least need to keep their new themes and costumes, and Sin, Raven, and That Man need to be playable. Oh and tutorial/ challenge modes, plus a "previously on segemnt" to explain the story so far to newer player. Also Chipp needs to be president.

Edited July 18, 2011 by destruction_adv