Throw Reject Miss Tactics

[BigLeafyTree]

I've noticed in videos of Japanese players that there are times during pressure where they'll go for a pink throw. Normally pink throws are a bad idea, but I see a lot of Throw Reject Miss ones going on and I'm not sure why.

Can anyone explain what the deal is and how I could fit it into my mixup game?

[severin]

Here's why 2A Throw and 5A throw work (to my understanding)

In order to avoid getting a throw whiff, many players will use option select throw breaks instead (1+ABC) this automatically breaks throws for 5 frames. However, should you be thrown once this window is over, you will get a throw reject miss for an uncertain amount of frames, even on purple throws. The 5A or 2A or whatever normal they use is done during that 5f window, then the throw comes out afterwards. Why not delay the throw you ask? Well, you might get mashed out. The fast normal helps guard against that.

[dragontamer]

Another thing to note: 2A and 5A typically are level 0 attacks, which means they have the least guardstun in the game. Meaning, you can have a green throw off of 2A / 5A soonest. (just make sure its really a lvl 0 attack). If you're Hazama / Bang / Tager, lvl 0 attack -> command grab works

For slightly different risk/reward structure... you can also go for counter-hit combos. For example, Jin's 2A -> 2C, Ragna 2A -> 2C or Noel's 2A -> 5C/2C. This beats people who are only hitting throw (1ABC will barrier block. 4BC will actually throw), but gets you usually get a larger combo. This beats mashing and throws.

Yet another risk/reward is to use (pseudo)-throw invincible attacks. Noel's 2D, Jin's 6B, Taokaka's 6B, and Ragna's Gauntlet Hades are throw invincible because they're airborne. (they need to be air thrown. Ground throws will whiff). So you can get counter-hit combos off of these if your opponent throw-rejects. Noel's 662D crosses up on crouchers and Taokaka's 6B is an overhead, so you get yet another risk/reward structure from here. For Noel, 2A -> 662D beats throws/throw-breaks, crouchers and some mashers and even backdash.

The most conservative thing you can do is to just stick a low in a true blockstring. 2A -> 2B for most characters for instance. It beats people trying to chicken jump (If you're holding up-back, you can't be holding back down. Can't be jumping and blocking low at the same time), and if they're blocking correctly, its a very conservative move. They probably need to IB->Reversal to interrupt it and they won't have much time to boot. Normally, chicken-blocking will beat all of the above tactics.

Think of each one as an offensive option-select. Pink-throw beats Option-Select throw break and throw break. Frame Traps beat throw-break and mashers. Throw-invincibile pressure beats throw-break and sometimes crouchers (depending on your character). Lows beat people who are too lazy to think and just want to jump out of there. Finally, just a regular tick-throw off of 2A forces the opponent to pay attention. Adding reversals into the mix... Pink-Throw is usually a solid block-string, so your opponent can't DP you if you Pink-throw.

Also, training your opponent to throw-break after 2A opens them up to the other strategies. If they begin to truely react to all of the options, you've used that mixup too much in a single match.

[ZONG_one]

Hey run up throw.

Run up throw.

Run up throw.

Run up throw.

Run up 5A > throw. Nigga tries to tech it because you mind fucked him, and gets reject miss.

Stay godlike.

[farranpoison]

Nah, do what I did with Jin in CT once.

1. Get opponent in the corner.

2. Throw > 214C

3. Throw > 214C

4. 623C

5. repeat steps 3 and 4 until they die or get smart.

[Jason D.]

...What are any of you talking about? Zong had it right, Severin was close. Make it LOOK like you're going to throw, but do something like a 2A or 5A instead. They will hit B+C trying to throw break. Throw them for real immediately after, and they will get a Throw Reject Miss, because of their first attempt, and be unable to break it. And that's your pro strat right there.

[Linear04]

so basically its a game system scam through yomi

man i gotta abuse this

[Spirit Juice]

Gotta run gimmicks to land throws in BB. lol @ throws in BB.

[Spark]

Hmm

[FlyingVe]

Gotta run gimmicks to land throws in BB. lol @ throws in BB.

Well, you gotta mind fuck people at the very least.

[Blade]

Hey run up throw.

Run up throw.

Run up throw.

Run up throw.

Run up 5A > throw. Nigga tries to tech it because you mind fucked him, and gets reject miss.

Stay godlike.

This. Goddammit. >_<

Also, setting the difficulty of the A.I. of Ragna/Jin to "50" and try reading its attacks as Haku-men. Not enough aggression to read moves, but just enough random pokes to piss you off, then...

TIC THROW!

[Wirya]

Gotta run gimmicks to land throws in BB. lol @ throws in BB.

I still like it eventhough I'm not quoting it anymore.

[dragontamer]

so basically its a game system scam through yomi

man i gotta abuse this

Stop saying things with less words that make more sense!

We need more epic walls of text like mine.

[BigLeafyTree]

Thanks for explaining severin and dragontamer, makes sense now. I appreciate the wall of text. I guess you could also go for a throw reject miss if they were in the air getting ready to block something that has to be barrier guarded? Them starting to barrier would be read as a throw tech attempt by the system right?

[ZONG_one]

I guess you could also go for a throw reject miss if they were in the air getting ready to block something that has to be barrier guarded? Them starting to barrier would be read as a throw tech attempt by the system right?

No, since you aren't using B+C to barrier.

You're using A+B.

This is also why when you're teching out of a combo, you should only be using A&B to tech, and not B&C, since if they airthrow you and you're using B+C to tech the combo, it may be read as throw reject miss.

[dragontamer]

Thanks for explaining severin and dragontamer, makes sense now. I appreciate the wall of text. I guess you could also go for a throw reject miss if they were in the air getting ready to block something that has to be barrier guarded? Them starting to barrier would be read as a throw tech attempt by the system right?

No, at least, not for everyone.

Some people like to block using ABC. In BlazBlue, this defaults to barrier block, but if they attempt to throw you, then ABC will automatically throw-break. In CT, this was arguably overpowered. In CS however, they increased the throw-reject time, so you can easily punish ABC blockers by doing any kind of throw-reject punish. Basically, people who barrier block using AB won't be punished by throw-reject baits.

Now, if your opponent happens to be using ABC as Barrier-Block option select Throw Break... then j.A -> throw will probably do an untechable throw-reject. I wouldn't rely on it. I'm pretty sure all the people who got into the habit of blocking with ABC stopped doing it in CS...

[Heroic_Legacy]

I approve of half of this thread. But it wouldn't be needed if people had reactions. But since they are overrated lets just option select everything like it's SF4.

[Kristoph]

or throws could be good so people would actually have to correctly predict them instead of just reacting out of them 80% of the time (except not online, but hey, fundamental differences between off/online play are even more extra cool)

[ZONG_one]

or throws could be good so people would actually have to correctly predict them

You mean throws could be like they were in GG?

[dragontamer]

You mean throws could be like they were in GG?

GG isn't even prediction... its like, both players actively wanted to throw each other at the exact same time. 0-frame throws with ~2 frames to throw break? WTF.

[STenSatsu]

It kind of counts as prediction since the most common counter to throw in GG is also to throw lol.

[Reioumu]

Yeah, players would option select the throws in GG to expect to break them.

[Lord Knight]

Just wanted to note that this in turn makes just normal green throw stronger as well.

[JinSaotome]

Hey, I wanted to ask a question since its a semi related.

I've been seeing JP players do mid-combo purple throws, and then either getting some sweet extra damage if it lands, or (more likely) being able to hit/force a guard with meaty things like Haz j.4D off of j.C x 5 dj B+C, Bang D Nails after j.A dj Airthrow, etc, etc... is this a legitimate strategy, or are those other guys just getting trolled?

[Beautiful Death]

Woa I was actually just thinking about this very topic like now. But uh, I'm pretty sure that when you see dudes pull of a purple throw off a say, 5A or 2A or JA gatling is because they either must have predicted the opponent would have tried to barrier OS at that point or they reacted to the barrier and gatling into the grab from the jab or whatever, getting a reject since they hit B+C.

So in a perfect world you would always react to throws instead of barrier OSing. Too bad, so sad. And I don't really think it's reasonable to think you can react to every throw either. Because if top players like Buppa and Satoshi Barrier OS a great deal of the time, I'm pretty sure it's just a fact of life you have to deal with.

A recent example of this is in this set of matches. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHpDqmp-3fY

At 11:38 Goro jumps, does 5A, then Gatlings into a grab and as you can see, it was a purple reject throw. Satoshi had just jumped and barrier OS'ed, and Goro either predicted that or reacted to the Barrier animation and so instead of jumping straight into an air thow he first jabbed THEN grabbed to ensure the grab.

I think it also happend at 11:53, but I can't be sure.

I do think that Tsujikawa pulled this off against Satoshi in the SBO grand finals as well, although I'm not so sure.

That brings me to my question. How long are you put into throw reject state after hitting B+C? Could be useful. Maybe I'll have to hit the man up on Throw Reject State frames.

And if I am out of my mind, do me a favor and let me know.