[CS1-CSE] Mu-12 Critique and Self-Improvement Thread

[pochp]

This is from a tournament a month ago. Advice is appreciated

vs Leo7's valk : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wN1SBEs0Q_w (nerves + slight delay on station made me drop stuff started netplaying to adapt to it better before the match I was confident. then it started and I remembered they nerfed 2c. I realized I had no idea how to play the matchup now.)

in teams vs Kirbster's rachel : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3vlgNcYXQ8#t=14m44s (oh right, my team got sent to losers because I missed like 5 DPs in my match, so I figured fuck that shit for the rest of the tournament)

[Aginor]

I really think you need to be more patient and take advantage of Mu's zoning game. It goes with a lot of people. You're rushing in and getting hit a lot. You don't need to go in. Like Rachel needs to get in more on you than you need to get in on her. There are also times where you just wake up burst but I think it would be worthwhile to learn ib barrier since it pushes your opponent really far back. Lastly, I would recommend against being in the air a lot against valkenhayn because of this move called uhh....wolf 5b. :< Like if you think he'll approach by ground, you can 5c but if he moves in the air you kind of have to use an AA with 6a being the safer option. That valkenhayn wasn't really using the 6c wolf movement into the low hit on you. If you react to the 6c and he doesn't do 6c wolf you can just DP him on reaction to the 6c. But yea...

[Tiger]

I have a question, not sure if this was the right place to put it. I'm a xbox player, been interested in picking up Mu-12 since CS1, only played her casually but lately been interested in putting some hard work into her. I'm mostly a rush down type user so zoning is a bit foreign too me. A few questions I have are:

236A: I usually forget this move exist, but how can I actually use this effectively, and same with 623C both moves are completely unused by me at times so I'm curious as to where do I inplant them in my fighting strategy

Another one is how do I counter rush down characters and zone them? I have issues with Ragna and taokaka the most, and not sure what are her best tools to keep them at bay besides stains. Unless I'm doing something wrong with is probably true lol

Sorry if this is the wrong place to put it, but I been wanting to improve on my MU-12 for the best few days and wanted some advice, thanks in advance XD

[pochp]

hm thanks agi, makes sense. I was trying to stay in the air against valk because I have no idea how to block that mixup, but if it just puts me in a more disadvantageous neutral it's not worth it.

236A: I usually forget this move exist, but how can I actually use this effectively, and same with 623C both moves are completely unused by me at times so I'm curious as to where do I inplant them in my fighting strategy

A common and practical use of 236A is when you're setting up full screen, and you're not sure if you have enough time to use 236D before they reach you. So you use 236a/j.236a because it's faster, and if they block it, you send out 236d. Another common use is when applying corner pressure, you just use it to keep them there. It's a good zoning tool because it covers a lot of space.

Use 623C during gaps in your opponent's blockstrings and stagger pressure. It's also really good when you're in the air and people are attacking you from below.

Another one is how do I counter rush down characters and zone them? I have issues with Ragna and taokaka the most, and not sure what are her best tools to keep them at bay besides stains. Unless I'm doing something wrong with is probably true lol

For ragna, you need to make space between you with a lot of dashing/5c/jump back j.c, and only after that start zoning him with steins and other projectiles. When you've got him scared, go in with projectile backup only if possible. Taokaka is pretty hard to deal with, stay mobile, don't attack her until you get a knockdown, use normals, hitconfirm your counterhits (mostly j.c and 6a). Once you get a knockdown, tao has no metereless reversal so pressure pressure pressure. Don't be afraid to use 623D against them if they're just blindly rushing in to make them afraid, but don't abuse it. Anyways, that's how I play those matchups.

[Tiger]

Thank you for the advice, I'll try implanting 236A more into my pressuring and zoning game style. And how is it really good in the air? Just execute it while they are preforming anti-airs?

[Amethyst Reitou]

Okay. I've finally gotten around to getting my replays uploaded to the You of Tubes. Just four of the Ranked Netplay matches I've done so far though. Note: I recorded them via my tablet's camera while holding it. The sound for it is rather soft I think, and there might be some shaking going on near the starts of matches. I apologize for that, but I don't have any other way right now to get the matches up for review.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhAmI70622o (Vs. Hazama) My first match against another human as Mu, and its Hazama. Honestly, I just didn't seem to have much of a clue as to what I was doing over all. There was a wiffed Distortion Drive near the end that I'm certain was me trying to use 63214C but ended up with an extra 6 before the C.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUHb8jIaJxg (Vs. Hazama pt. 2) Yeah, I got back to back Hazamas for my first two matches. Go figure. There was heavy lag during the intro, but it cleared up once the match actually started, and I don't -think- it played a role, but it could still have in some cases. I got lucky at the end of the first round, and that's all there is to it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVqOBf0G8mY (Vs. Noel) All I have to say here is that I could have SWORN we battled on Noel's stage, not Mu's. Beyond that... Noel is pain.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMlC3s93YOs (Vs. Ragna) The last match of my first set that I did, and I end on Ragna. Honestly, there's not much here that I can think of to say, from my own experience of it.

I have started to get into the habit of dropping Steins after 6C connects, and the only other things I can think of to do to possibly help is more 236A and 623C to keep them off of me, both ground and air versions. Any real help would be nice, and thank you in advance.

[SolarMisae]

I watched the first two, but didn't watch them all so this might not fully reflect everything but I'll comment anyways.

I noticed that you techrolled backwards while in the corner. Theres no real reason to do that, as it doesn't gain anything as far as distance from your opponent goes and it's more punishable than a neutral tech. Throughout you didn't seem to have any real feel for how you were gonna get up. It looked like you were just mashing on buttons trying to get up with no real thought on how you were going to tech or why you'd tech that way. Try to actively think about how you want to tech. As Mu you should know, getting up wrong can lead to damage. Don't feel bad about this though, as this is a pretty common thing in newer players. I mashed the fuck out of every button I could to tech when I first started lol.

Also, I saw a lot of empty 6Cs and SoDs that seemed to have no real reason to them You never ever wanna throw out 6C empty without a damn good read, because it's very punishable on whiff, especially against someone like Hazama. You also did it point blank on more than one occasion. It doesn't hit opponents who are too close to you so it's just asking to be CH'd. I know that fatal combos are appealing but you need to be careful about throwing those moves out.

You also seem to be throwing your steins out very randomly, with no sense of any particular placement. This is one of the hardest aspects to grasp when learning Mu. Totsuka follows the steins from the last stein you placed to the first one you placed then tracks the opponent. Because of this, placing 5D > 6D is infinitely more effective than say 6D > 5D since the laser will then bounce more times than the 6D > 5D setup, even though they look identical. The order in which you set your steins matters, and you need to think about what you wanna do with them when placing them. Again I say, this is one of the hardest things to grasp about Mu, so just work at it and you'll get it.

You seemed to get impatient a lot and just rushed in, don't do that with Mu unless you're covered by lasers or if you have a real plan behind why you're doing it. You also did a lot of stuff which I think(?) were mis-inputs...random rapids and supers. Like you did throw > delay Omohikane once? I dunno what you were trying to do with that. There were also a couple of what looked like random-ish DP's in there as well.

First and foremost, you definitely need to grind those combos. Learn to confirm midscreen 6B into SoD to blow them back. I noticed you landed a lot of 6B's but went into 5C afterwards. 6B only combos into SoD on normal hit without the right setup. Pretty much everything mid/fullscreen goes into SoD blowback. Things like 2A > 5B > 2C > 5C > SoD for a barebones confirm off of a 2A midscreen.

Everyone starts somewhere though. And your start looks like anyone just starting with this character seeing as it's your first time against a human opponent. Mu is also a tough character to pick up, so it'll take some work but she's very worth it. ^^

Edited March 2, 2012 by SolarMisae

[Lythium]

I agree with Solar's assessment.

I think you just need to focus on basics right now. Stein formation and combos, as Solar said, but also just stuff like when to block, and when to throw out certain pokes or steins. Also, don't wait until the opponent is right on top of you to do the command laser. Some things will just come with experience, like when to burst. For example, your first burst in that match against Noel wasn't a good time to burst, the combo was basically over and your opponent wasn't going to get any more damage, however, your second burst was much better.

I also recommend that if you're playing online, try player matches and join a room. Online is fine and all, better than nothing, but ranked is too much noise. Too many styles, too many different opponents doing crazy shizz, too much adjusting to varying levels of lag and skill, etc. Also, if you play people on Dustloop, they'll be willing to help you out and tell you what you did wrong, I bet. :3

[cookiehours]

I agree with the others as well. I was almost in the same situation as you were, with stein setups and when to throw moves out until I practiced enough to improve fully. I still have some improvement to get to and especially learning matchups better. Don't give up. We can have a Mu session if you're down for it.

[Amethyst Reitou]

Thanks for all the comments and input folks. I must admit, I'm totally unused to this much reply, but onwards!

Yeah, I've been working on trying to get my inputs to be more consistent in the middle of battle, which is part of why I have so many random DPs. 6C is also something I have been trying to work on. I know it has a large dead zone, but I keep trying to use it in said dead zone. I will learn though. I knew this would be hard, right from the start, but I won't back down.

I've got a bunch of replays saved of my matches against Thunderbolt's Tsubaki, as well as a bunch from last night when I played around in Sutomu's room. I can get some of them, though not all, uploaded this weekend. I would also love to have more sessions with others, but just as a reminder, I've only got a 360 for now. Sorry cookie. Still love ya and thanks for the help and offer. *hugs for all*

[cookiehours]

Thanks for all the comments and input folks. I must admit, I'm totally unused to this much reply, but onwards!

Yeah, I've been working on trying to get my inputs to be more consistent in the middle of battle, which is part of why I have so many random DPs. 6C is also something I have been trying to work on. I know it has a large dead zone, but I keep trying to use it in said dead zone. I will learn though. I knew this would be hard, right from the start, but I won't back down.

I've got a bunch of replays saved of my matches against Thunderbolt's Tsubaki, as well as a bunch from last night when I played around in Sutomu's room. I can get some of them, though not all, uploaded this weekend. I would also love to have more sessions with others, but just as a reminder, I've only got a 360 for now. Sorry cookie. Still love ya and thanks for the help and offer. *hugs for all*

I could have sworn I saw PSN...o_O

Ah well. Good luck then. :3

[Tsurugi24]

Just a few online matches I had on my Vita

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUZFwWJgmx4 Mu-12 vs Ragna

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R70GQsyIpnQ Mu-12 vs Carl

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQduWOJoK4E Mu-12 vs Rachel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rO1NAxBla08 Mu - 12 vs Bang

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIOnftO6x68 Mu - 12 vs Jin

Still a bit new to playing as Mu, well aware there are a lot of combo opportunities I didn't go for or use Steins enough. Some tips and what I should do to up my game would be nice.

[pochp]

stop hitting your opponent with so many 2As once you hit them, it's bad for the resulting combo. you should probably learn better combos too, either check out the in game challenge mode, or you can check this video to see what's commonly used http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoCLTItUeyM

your opponents are probably beginners looked like they hadn't figured out the game very well yet. once you're able to land the actual combos into knockdowns, you'll be better prepared to fight people who are actually decent players, and when you start fighting stronger opponents, you'll be able to improve a lot.

[Tsurugi24]

Honestly had no clue what I was doing half of the time since I got bored of using Ragna mainly in CT, never played the older renditions of CS so Mu is completely foreign to me. Also it's a pretty limited community on the vita side.

Any Vita players here? I really need help with Mu, combo videos and tutorials can only go so far compared to actual matches. Rushing in and doing 2a over and over is a terrible habit i've picked up from using Ragna back in CT, keep forgeting I'm playing as Mu at times, lol. Anyways, I just need to find a training partner so I actually get some feedback on how to improve my game.

Edited April 13, 2012 by Tsurugi24

[Lord Pwnge18]

Ah my god a Vita, that must be awful to fight with.

FC 6C combo I made without looking at the combo list, because fuck:

FC 6C > 5D > 66~5C > 2C > j.2C > 66~2C > 5C > SoD > 6B > Highloop > Midloop > Lowloop > 2C > Yata > j.2C > 2C > 5C > Omohi

I think it did a little bit above 8k, I don't recall how much meter it built. Is there anything I should rectify, or did I do a decent job with this?

I wonder if this should've gone in a different thread.

Edited April 23, 2012 by Lord Pwnge18

[Tsurugi24]

lol, Vita is surprisingly pretty good for fighting games, unfortunately, very small community and prefer to play on the go when it's easier to take breaks rather than playing in front of a TV screen for extended periods of time. Anyways, are a majority of Mu's combos off of 2b and 3c? I really have to stop rushing in with 2a, very bad habit I picked up from playing too much rushdown on UMVC 3.

[pochp]

I'd say the majority of the hits you get are either from spacing long range normals like 5c or j.c, or from mixup with 2b, 6b, or throw. 2a is good but don't rely on it like it's marvel, combo scaling is different in this game and rewards better starters a lot more.

[TheDarkGlint]

New Mu -12 player here. I'm not new to BB(played BBCT & BBCS1) but It's been a min since I played the game. I raped the trail combos, now, I'm ready to begin the real training. Fast learner, so you don't have to baby me that much xD. I just need a someone to guide to success.

P.S. I'm the flashy type. crazy setups/mixups... I love them.

[Cryingvoid]

There are very nice tutorials, Posh created for newcomers just like you:

1. combos : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoCLTItUeyM

2. setups : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agk5UuSUlr8

I'd say practice some of those, and try to use some in real matches. Also go to the video thread and observe jp Mu's play styles. You'll get a general idea of moving and hitconfirming. Rest is - play versus much. She requires match experience to properly see though optimal stuff in combos etc. like 'distancing' is very important for her. Depending on opp. life, your meter, position on the screen etc. you get an optimal path of combo, should it be an oki combo, a reset combo, a tech/frame trap combo, midscreen single/double super combo or corner one. And lots of other complicated stuff is found out eventually during real matches and understanding of Mu's pros.

This is how it worked out for me anyway ^___^

Good luck!

[cookiehours]

There are very nice tutorials, Posh created for newcomers just like you:

1. combos : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoCLTItUeyM

2. setups : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agk5UuSUlr8

I'd say practice some of those, and try to use some in real matches. Also go to the video thread and observe jp Mu's play styles. You'll get a general idea of moving and hitconfirming. Rest is - play versus much. She requires match experience to properly see though optimal stuff in combos etc. like 'distancing' is very important for her. Depending on opp. life, your meter, position on the screen etc. you get an optimal path of combo, should it be an oki combo, a reset combo, a tech/frame trap combo, midscreen single/double super combo or corner one. And lots of other complicated stuff is found out eventually during real matches and understanding of Mu's pros.

This is how it worked out for me anyway ^___^

Good luck!

That actually helped me a lot too. The trouble I'm still having is setups. I can do some of them but others I need to really utilize and set up some of my own too.

[TheDarkGlint]

Thanks, awsome videos. I'm beginning my training as I post this mgs. I'll have some more questions for you guys as my training progress. My next will be about Stein placement but it's probably in the setups video(currently on the combo vid).

[Chris Chaos]

Hey guys, I decided to go back to playing Mu again and since it's been awhile since I played her (CS1 to be exact), I thought I'd post a match, one of me doing OK and one of me... not doing so hot. Even with using a pad, I was able to execute a few things well but I know I need work. So I came here to ask for help; what am I'm doing right or wrong in these matches and what do I need to work on to better myself with this character?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVRpgQTfxRU

[SolarMisae]

Basic Mu advice from me....zoning, combos...zzzz....ahhh I can't do this anymore. xP

Work on hitconfirms. You got a super nice 5C counter near the corner and confirmed into 6C, which does some STUPID damage. You should have gone into SoD > 6B > stuff but you just did 5D. Though, seeing as you haven't played her since CS1 I can totally understand not being used to being able to combo off of SoD...

Uhhh theres more I know there is but I'm bad at critique and don't like writing a lot.

[Lythium]

Pretty solid Mu.

I will say that you do dash up into raw 6B quite a bit, and you got hit out of it just about every time. If you want to go in for mixup, try using your command laser more to cover you because Mu's 6B is kinda slow. You could also use Habaya more to cover your approach. Also, speaking of approach and such, steins! You like to throw them out, but I don't see you doing much with them. It's up to you how you want to use them, but you could at least make your opponent respect the space that they occupy.

I agree with Solar about hitconfirming, you either lost a couple of great opportunities for big damage or you didn't know the combos. Either way, you should work on fixing that, because you could have had it all~ (rolling in the deep~). But seriously, you got some amazing hits (5C in the corner, CH 5C midscreen), and you didn't do much with them. So, I'm not sure which it was, or both, but I would definitely work on correcting that.

Random Yata? :3c

[cookiehours]

Word of advice Shin, don't ever do 6B in a blockstring. It's slow and you can get grabbed/hit out of it. Cookie learned the hard way.