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Posted
I rarely get a hit on 2C, so I barley use it. I actually don't use 6A that much either, but I'm learning.

Also, can someone tell me if Mu's DP isn't complete ass? That's probably the one move I never use with her, and now that we're getting it in the air, I'm wondering how good it actually is.

As a defensive option, it's probably the best meterless reversal in the game.

It has low recovery, frame one level 3 autoguard to beat safe jumps, it's not in CH state for a large portion of the recovery, it has a decent hitbox, opponents are stuck in hitstop while Mu finishes the attack, so they can't be rapid cancel on autoguard. It blows the opponent back to fullscreen so they have to eat zoning some more, it had considerable frame advantage on hit and CH...

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Posted
As a defensive option, it's probably the best meterless reversal in the game.

It has low recovery, frame one level 3 autoguard to beat safe jumps, it's not in CH state for a large portion of the recovery, it has a decent hitbox, opponents are stuck in hitstop while Mu finishes the attack, so they can't be rapid cancel on autoguard. It blows the opponent back to fullscreen so they have to eat zoning some more, it had considerable frame advantage on hit and CH...

R-really?

Huh, I guess I should start using it more often then :x

Posted (edited)

I'm not good at writing wall of text but general, work on your zoning and your stein usage..you don't use her drive enough. Also work on your combos, as you don't seem to be using optimal stuff. I also saw you place two steins on on top of each other and use totsuka with that, which is a bit useless cause the laser flies to the steins and actually just stays there for a bit before homing in on the opponent.

Learn optimal placment for Totsuka. 5D > 6D > totsuka (> 66D > 4D if you want to keep it going) is a really basic "barrage" that you can start off with after a knock down. That setup lets you run in for some free pressure.

You're bursting really early too, which can sometimes be okay for Mu if you wanna maintain momentum early on. Don't get predictable about it. I was shocked that the burst you did after Noel silencer (around 3:12 in the second vid I think) went unpunished.

tldr; learn how to effectively place steins, work on combos, work on zoning...play a bit safer..

Okay I'm quite bad at this, I'm sure someone else can do better than me.

Edited by SolarMisae
Posted (edited)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZUqw9ufQVU VS Tsubaki

* by around the 7 minute mark I switched to makoto for the rest of the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuUS692bpRs VS Noel

I am sure the better Mu players can give better advice than i can, but let's give it a try.

Asides from the comments that solarmisae made about knowing your combo's (for example with the standard Mu corner bnb combo, the last j.2c need to be slightly delayed to hit certain characters like noel, because they are launched up in the air higher when hit by 2c), stein placements and zoning

The first mistake that i have notice is that you tend to use 6c after 5c (i did that too when i started Mu in CS1), even in a combo when your opponent was not crouching or in a counterhit state, instead of a SoD (at close range you can also insert a 2c or 3c before using SoD for slightly more damage and heat, but it depends on your distance). Because of that, you could not keep Tsubaki and the Noel away from you and you could not set up 1 or 2 steins in the proces.

Against tsubaki, you can avoid her shield charges if you are jumping (and blocking in the air) or throw out steins and habaya to prevent her closing in on you too easily.

Also avoid jumping in on her while rushing down. In general don't try to rush people down with mu's weak air to ground moves (you need to be fairly close before you can hit people under you, because of the lack of a good lower hitbox of j.b and j.c. j.2c has a good hitbox but it's a bit slow), it's especially bad if you don't have some kind of stein support to back you up while doing so. It's even worse on tsubaki, because she has 2 really good anti airs: her 2c and her sanctus aequum (the 214 moves with head and body invuln. that can nullify lasers and habaya). Both can be baited and leave her open , so try to take advantage of that by pretending to rush down with a laser support and use an empty jump to move over her.

Tsubaki's close range is a pain because of her fast 5b, so you want to keep away from her at to setup steins or mid range in reach of your 5c.

Oddly enough you were losing when you were fighting that tsubaki in the air to air. Mu's j.c is probably one of the best air to air moves (well not at close range, but you do need to space) that Tsubaki players should respect.

I agree with solarmisae, you were not using enough steins.

edit: comments about the video with noel

For starters try barrier guarding in the air more. Most of the damage could have been avoided if you were not hit by her normals that are since cs2 only blockable in the air with a barrier.

Like before, not enough steins and habaya. Noel could run around without worrying about anything.

I am not sure if you were familiar with Noel's moves, but you were hit by her fairly commonly used high and low blockstrings.

Optical barrel can be avoided if you know the distances (it has 3 fixed locations) where it can hit you and if you jump a little higher when placing steins

Rushing Noel recklessly down without steins is mostly a suicide because her 2d and 4d will counter almost everything (2d is low invincible, thus 2a and 2b loses to that. It wins from 5c if you space wrongly and it's faster than 6b. throwing doesn't work because 2d makes her airborn. 4d is head and body invincible, so it's kinda the opposite of 2d and it can fatal ) you can throw at her. 6a and 2c can stop 2d mashing noel's without any problems, but 6a is fairly useless against 4d. 2c can sometimes work, but that's a gamble that i don't want to take if i end up losing 3 - 4,4k health. Also predictably using 6a and 2c will get you countered by her fast pokes or 3c.

Well not too much else to say, except that i hate noel's damage that you take by making a single mistake

more edits: some advice that works for me against noel's that i play.

Blocking a 3c will leave you with a huge frame advantage that you can use against her. Better players won't use it in their blockstrings unless they hit confirm you when crouching, but that noel player in the video liked to use it sometimes.

Blocking a 2d (well most of her drives do, but 2d is more commonly used as a starter) leaves her open for a few frames, you can use a dp or a fast poke (not on all of her drives, but 2d is really open for a move that has roughly 7 and maybe little frames). IB'in would give you even more frames, but if it's netplay then i don't expect to see lot's of instant blocking

even more late edits asides fixing typos and grammar: make that noel respect your anti airs , air to air moves and abuse the huge hitbox of mu's airthrow when close. You were hit in the air way too often.

Edited by bakahyl
Posted (edited)

I'll give you some real simple advice that can do you worlds of good :

DON'T STAND STILL SO MUCH (caps i know...) but seriously you need to be alot more mobile -- mu's can benefit greatly but mobility and its a great way to get used to doing crossunders/overs. Keep moving -- do fake outs/ high jump/dash jumps over your enemy -- just dont move (or stand there) mindlessly through the match

I am a 6C junkie and I notice a few times you land a 6c on block then let mu's animations continue .... that's a big no no.... anytime you land 6c on block -- use that opportunity to place a stein or if your gutsy an Origins (DP) -- if you feel they will rush up and counter your ass.

Another easily change-able habit I see you have is that you often like the start Totsuka while right above the ground... I see in your video that getting punished all the time. stop that!! *smack* -- if your going to do an air Totsuka then jump way ass high so they have a harder time getting to you before your laser finds them (just not mindlessly please).

Do yourself a favor and stop placing steins while very close to your opponent (while you can do that - its a bit more advanced and you gotta watch your opponent carefully) ------> http://youtu.be/r8i6DZbCu4M?t=7m22s (bad bad!! don't do that)

Another thing --- stop mashing out recoveries and trying to always land a J.C or J.2C on your (quite mobile Tsubaki) opponent -- instead just retreat, get away and clear your head. ( DONT do this anymore! ----> http://youtu.be/1ZUqw9ufQVU?t=2m14s ) its actually alil painful to watch but cram that exp into your head

Edited by Nemesis
Posted
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZUqw9ufQVU VS Tsubaki

* by around the 7 minute mark I switched to makoto for the rest of the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuUS692bpRs VS Noel

I'm still training with Mu myself but I agree with the others. You have to be quite mobile with Mu, use stein placement well enough that it traps your opponent/covers you when you rush down. Also, don't be afraid of zoning at times as well.

Posted

Aile, I think mostly you need to work on your neutral game.

Learn better stein placement, but also learn to place steins when it is safe to do so. Use Habaya to cover you, or place steins in combos until you get a feel for it.

Posted

I haven't been playing a lot nor keeping myself up to date lately, but I hope this advice is still good, Lythium awesome girl.

for blockstrings try to integrate canceling 5C, 6C, and 3C into 236A/236D, don't get too predictable, but it allows you to have better pressure.

don't be afraid to use meter when you're full and one mixup will take it, ex: blockstring 2B 5B 6B SoD RC 6B etc.

don't forget to use gold burst. if a corner combo won't kill you, the risk of not green bursting their combo but instead gold bursting their oki to put them into the corner instead is often worth the reward. gives you a meterless 3k combo as a bonus.

3C RC combos and 6C RC combos, they're good, use them.

less j.C jump in, it's a bad habit.

less stein cancel into stein, it's only good if they somehow decide to stay fullscreen, use stein cancel into either jump or 236A instead. Those two steins may be out, but they aren't going to do much if you jump back and block right away.

use instant air backdash j.236A at neutral, it's hard to punish and it allows you to set the pace. One thing I like doing at neutral is 6D IAD back j.236A (if blocked) 236D -> mixup. Really good against ragna for example, but terrible against haz.

use super jump more against tager when he has spark, it's a good bait. also, one thing at a time when he has spark bolt, but always be doing something, whether it's just moving backwards, empty jump, whatever, show him the odds are against him that you'll block the spark.

Use more 2B and learn to space it well, it's especially good against tager as it beats sledge without the recovery of 5C

Against hazama I like to use the laser super when he's in the air and about to use chains. It's a gimmick, but it gets him to be more careful and it's pretty safe. Don't use it if he's on the ground though.

In corner ...6C SoD... combos I personnally never place a stein between these two moves, it has too often broken my combo, but maybe that's just me.

learn a better corner throw combo (unless it's just platinum's hitbox, haven't tested on it a lot but I know it's weird).

...5C 5D 6C dash6D 214D LEARN IT OMG BEST SETUP EVAR. seriously though, it's simple, deadly, and it gets your opponents to respect your setups, leads to huge damage in the corner iirc.

2A THROW DO EEET. Also, 2A6B, and 2B throw. simple mixup is sometimes the best. If your opponent starts blocking your ...5B 6B... overheads, use 6A 6B, it also gatlings and can catch them off guard.

Use counter assaults more, really good to get out of corner blockstrings. I don't think I saw you in many situations where it would have been great, but I don't think I saw you use it at all either. (unless maybe one that came out as a 6B)

Posted (edited)

ARG why are you standing STILL?! ... STOP IT !! also stop the mindless teching (especially vs tager ------> http://youtu.be/N_w7B_-QocQ?t=4m20s) you should always be more MOBILE... I see it quite a few times unfortunately

WATCH Tagers spark-bolt gauge like a hawk IT PAYS and when you get good enough you can embarrass them by absorbing their spark-bolt with Origins.. sadly i think you were hit by every spark-bolt from the tager... Much like Pochp said canceling stein into stein leaves you woefully open and you eat that spark-bolt sigh like every time

http://youtu.be/N_w7B_-QocQ?t=6m14s (perfect opportunity for 5C->6C-->habakiri but instead I saw 5C-->haba -- try not to miss those opportunities because they can lead to devastating combos)

Too many times I see you (no offense) mindlessly running into sledgehammer, Tagers 5D, or something else... start approaching from different angles instead of the most direct one

Also im seeing your not respecting tager's sledgehammer very well -- bombs are great but you gotta be awares

(@_@) standing still mindlessly again http://youtu.be/N_w7B_-QocQ?t=9m33s leads right into astral

http://youtu.be/N_w7B_-QocQ?t=10m33s double stein leaves you woefully open to ragna's godlike rushdown-- you need to respect ragna's ability to cross the screen and put you in a horrible corner or something

I notice when fighting Ragna you manage a nice Laser special but follow it up with 6B -- when you have multiple steins and lasers keeping them in the air like that its easier to just land some simple J.C air combos to keep the pressure (http://youtu.be/N_w7B_-QocQ?t=11m24s )

2nd round vs Ragna - it looked like you cowered in the corner there and handed the match to him -- i know that sounds harsh but you gotta do something-- anything -- throw out a fuzzy ball (w/e its called) a SINGLE stein-- or better yet my favorite of all techniques : the RCing Origins rush-- works like a charm my friend

Dont be afraid to 2B a laying down opponent - especially if you know them to be laydowners...? whatever you guys call it (ppl who spend too much time on the floor) http://youtu.be/N_w7B_-QocQ?t=12m48s mindlessly rushing them like that puts you at a serious disadvantage (unless you really know what your doin or your prepin a nice bait)

all said in done I dont think your scrubby or salty or nooby w/e in fact there are a few things i saw you do that I think can improve my own game but I URGE YOU to go back watch these videos yourself and COUNT how many times you just stand STILL @_@

Edited by Nemesis
Posted
Aile, I think mostly you need to work on your neutral game.

Aile: This please. In terms of combos, just learn basic combos for now. From what I saw, it seemed like you're pushing buttons just because you can and there isn't really a purpose. And you rush in when tbh, it's quite better to just sit back and let your opponent come to you. And yea....if you go to your opponent and they expect you, you're doing half of their work for them. :x Know your opponent's options and your options. Another thing is I think you need to play around with Mu more just in general. Don't just use 5c but experiment with moves like j.b, air throw, 2c, etc. Don't always rely on command laser as well, stein lasers are also good. I'm going to stop there because I don't want to flood you with so much information.

Thank you Lythium for that statement....

As for the rest of you, just be careful of what you say...

Against tsubaki, you can avoid her shield charges if you are jumping (and blocking in the air) or throw out steins and habaya to prevent her closing in on you too easily.

You aren't avoiding the shield charges if you're blocking it...Avoiding means to not even get touched, not blocking or hit, by it...

DON'T STAND STILL SO MUCH (caps i know...) but seriously you need to be alot more mobile -- mu's can benefit greatly but mobility and its a great way to get used to doing crossunders/overs. Keep moving -- do fake outs/ high jump/dash jumps over your enemy -- just dont move (or stand there) mindlessly through the match

I'd rather see a grounded mu who holds their position more than one who moves around a lot. From what you stated, it's all during oki or when you're at an advantage. Well...that's kind of an obvious thing you want to mix your opponent up. But what are you going to do in a neutral situation? Are you going to air dash in and get hit or will you air backdash and get cornered then die faster?

Posted

Lythium: You need to work on your spacing, choices on when to use what move, and your tactics that you use against different characters. You're also autopiloting 2b 5c 3c too much. You should being to use stagger pressure with 2b since it's 0 on block. So just do 2b and end it there. It's really good because 2b has long range for an 8f move that's a low. 1f slower than 2a but reaches much farther. Yea...keep an eye out for spark bolt. Like if you know the opponent is going to sledge, you might as well counter it with 5c. :<

Lastly, hit confirms...You should work on that if you have a chance. There's too many missed opportunities for damage.

Psst...I see a lot of air dash j.cs hitting nothing. :<

And Nemesis: Take a chill pill. ;|

Tagers spark-bolt gauge like a hawk IT PAYS and when you get good enough you can embarrass them by absorbing their spark-bolt with Origins..

Also, that's probably one of the worst pieces of advice I've heard anybody give. I've seen worse but that is pretty bad in itself...It's too hard to do that. Maybe if you could react to it you could do it but I doubt anybody could react to it 100% anyways. Plus the risk/reward isn't in your favor for doing that.

Posted

I'd rather see a grounded mu who holds their position more than one who moves around a lot. From what you stated, it's all during oki or when you're at an advantage. Well...that's kind of an obvious thing you want to mix your opponent up. But what are you going to do in a neutral situation? Are you going to air dash in and get hit or will you air backdash and get cornered then die faster?

Im really taken aback by this but I suppose I'll clarify myself abit - if you read what I said it was about (please) not standing still "so much" as in there is far to much standing (still) both in advantaged situations and disadvantaged -- surplus.

being grounded and holding you position is fine i never said anything against that

Neutral situations are usually because someone has yet to take momentum - hence "dont just stand still" losing momentum can be devastating or i dont understand the terminology

and your last point agi -- is alil redundant if you read the last line of my quote (just dont move-stand- mindlessly through the match)

all points aside I play very aggresively with mu (probably due to my extensive ragna play) so toss a grain of salt in

Posted

And Nemesis: Take a chill pill. ;|

bah probably right - although you'd be surprised about the effectiveness of my bad advice - ask yuki lol

Posted

But you said keep moving... :x

Neutral situations are usually because someone has yet to take momentum - hence "dont just stand still" losing momentum can be devastating or i dont understand the terminology

You gain momentum by scoring a hit, not by getting in on somebody if you mean go in and hit them. :x

Posted

If you have good enough reaction to DP spark, you might as well just jump over it. Tsunugui will indeed eat spark...but hey guess what, you will still get magnetized. =/

Posted
If you have good enough reaction to DP spark, you might as well just jump over it. Tsunugui will indeed eat spark...but hey guess what, you will still get magnetized. =/

The idea is in reference to a 6C hit on block (maybe i didnt clarify that) -- I'll agree its not the "safest" advice thats why i garnished my statement with (when you get good enough) but I (almost) guarantee you can bait it on nearly any tager like that -- I do it all the time

but if your at distant 6C range whats the harm in doing it anyway? its not like tager will cross the screen in a few frames to punish you - in fact -- even at close range it will beat out tagers sledge hammer that might go thru your 6C -- but this is all anticipation based on personal experience

I'll admit its risky even for experienced players but hardly horrible advice

Posted (edited)

well what works for some doesn't for others and in terms of risk i kinda have to reference to zong one who is often praised as a risk taker and seems to find ways to kick my butt online and gimmick my mind into the gutter. His play style is probably is impractical for most but is effective nonetheless- i imagine many of his skills are risky even for him -- however that doesn't mean we dismiss his advice or play-style as horrible because of the supposed risk

Enacting a newly learned combo online / offline/ in tournaments is risky due to drops or w/e

I often land fatal counters that lead to 6.6k and up combos in my matches but by nature landing a lone 6C CAN be quite risky -- i suppose that's by logic horrible advice too but it works quite well for me.

We shouldn't be afraid or shun risky moves as a community - yes somethings are just plain bad - but if we have the mentality of "why risk the CH" we are going to stagnate as a community. Playing it safe is all well and fine but its poor fertilizer for expanding our minds. Lets at least be willing to discuss new ideas or even bad ones.

We often are provided amazing videos by Pktazn or Jourdal were we see "risky" and "wtf how did they do that" fantastical combos and gimmicks that these jp players are managing -- lets open our minds a bit and believe westerners can do it too (or any race). Or even come up with our own ideas

Edited by Nemesis
Posted (edited)

You aren't avoiding the shield charges if you're blocking it...Avoiding means to not even get touched, not blocking or hit, by it...

block incase they finish their shield charge with the 214 moves after they miss me and end up being next to Mu, i tried hitting some tsubaki player thinking he was open in a few games (he missed me but at that time i did not land yet so i used j.b, otherwise a 2b would have worked ) and i got hit by any of the 214 moves. He said afterwards that he did not go for a dp after a missed shield charge, because her dp has a wierd dead angle above Tsubaki

edit: against tager

Try avoid using SoD as blockstring ender against Tager if you are magnetized. Eventhough the tager in the video did not punish you for it , I am pretty sure you can eat a 360 or 720 because of the frame disadvantage SoD leaves you. Instead try going for a jumpcancel and sometimes a stein cancel after 2c or 3c.

Pay attention to Tager's sparkbolt meter, if it's full then you should zone more carefully. In the video, you were hit by sparkbolt too often.

Good stein placement is very important against Tager. Because he can't dash and airdash, you can keep him pinned down with your exploding steins better than against anyone else. If he decided to use a sledge at long range, you can punish him easily with a 5c.

If you are magnetized, just keep away from him without getting yourself cornered. At mid range and long range his 6a won't pull you close enough if you backdash the entire time and collider does not work when you are on the ground.

Maybe you should use 5c more at mid range, it can make some tager players play more cautiously by immediately going for a sledge. Thus giving you some time to reposition yourself and place some steins. And 2b against sledge has already been said

Bursting, sometimes you burst too early and sometimes your burst is completely wasted. Like in the hazama video, bursting in a combo when he hit you with his command throw. The proration on his command grab is really bad and the combo would have only done 1,2k damage.

comments about the platinum video

Your corner combo's with 5c counterhit and into 6c were wasted opportunities, because you placed a stein before using SoD. The laser from the stein made you drop the combo. So that's more about knowing your combo's.

Mu can zone platinum quite well untill she gets the cathammer, cat missiles or the bombs. You could have taken advantage of that if she does not have those items yet.

As a followup on pochp comment about corner throwing platinum, she does a different hitbox, but a cornerthrow 5b 6a or throw 2b 6a does work. You just have to time your j.2c differently

Tagers spark-bolt gauge like a hawk IT PAYS and when you get good enough you can embarrass them by absorbing their spark-bolt with Origins
As said by the others, Why?

Jumping over it and even blocking it are safer than using your dp to absorb it. You still get magnetized and you are open for some frames at which tager can pull you closer.

The idea is in reference to a 6C hit on block (maybe i didnt clarify that) -- I'll agree its not the "safest" advice thats why i garnished my statement with (when you get good enough) but I (almost) guarantee you can bait it on nearly any tager like that -- I do it all the time

but if your at distant 6C range whats the harm in doing it anyway? its not like tager will cross the screen in a few frames to punish you - in fact -- even at close range it will beat out tagers sledge hammer that might go thru your 6C -- but this is all anticipation based on personal experience

I'll admit its risky even for experienced players but hardly horrible advice

Why would you throw out 6c when you know tager is going to block it? If you mean by using the 5c 6c blockstring and expect tager to be blocking your 6c and use then a dp, then you are taking unnecessary risks. At worst, tager can block your 5c and go immediately for a sledge. Giving you little time to use your dp, because 6c need to be absorbed first before it can be cancelled. At mid range, he can sledge through your 6c with the a version of sledgehammer. So he closes in on you while at the same time he is not close to be hit by origins.

Finishing your blockstriing using 2c or 3c after a 5c are much safer than 6c because they can be jump cancelled. At mid range, i even prefer 5c SoD over 5c 6c.

well what works for some doesn't for others and in terms of risk i kinda have to reference to zong one who is often praised as a risk taker and seems to find ways to kick my butt online and gimmick my mind into the gutter. His play style is probably is impractical for most but is effective nonetheless- i imagine many of his skills are risky even for him -- however that doesn't mean we dismiss his advice or play-style as horrible because of the supposed risk

Enacting a newly learned combo online / offline/ in tournaments is risky due to drops or w/e

I often land fatal counters that lead to 6.6k and up combos in my matches but by nature landing a lone 6C CAN be quite risky -- i suppose that's by logic horrible advice too but it works quite well for me.

We shouldn't be afraid or shun risky moves as a community - yes somethings are just plain bad - but if we have the mentality of "why risk the CH" we are going to stagnate as a community. Playing it safe is all well and fine but its poor fertilizer for expanding our minds. Lets at least be willing to discuss new ideas or even bad ones.

We often are provided amazing videos by Pktazn or Jourdal were we see "risky" and "wtf how did they do that" fantastical combos and gimmicks that these jp players are managing -- lets open our minds a bit and believe westerners can do it too (or any race). Or even come up with our own ideas

Taking risks can be fine, why should you take risks when Tager needs to take huge risks himself to get close to you. One mistake and you are stuck in his tech traps and resets by his magnetism gimmicks that will drain all your life.

Tager players are usually trained to be more patient than people who play other characters. Because of Tager's weaknesses those players have learned to play defensively by being overall good at blocking attacks (his huge hitbox makes crossovers easier), knowing to take advantage of his backdash, baiting dp's and more importantly punishing one's mistakes when they rushdown. So it does not make too much sense to me that you are the one taking risks , when you don't have to.

Edited by bakahyl
Posted

Only got around to reading the crits for my mu, thanks guys ;w;

@ bakahyl - When I delay the last 2c, do I delay the jump, or delay the hit itself?

as for me getting hit by noel's block strings, for some reason I can easily block them as Makoto, but never as Mu. I don't know why :psyduck:

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