[CPEX] Hakumen Gameplay Discussion

[toanenadiz]

That sounds good. I like how my one-off comment actually lead me to learn something.

[mAc Chaos]

^ A safe bursting point is anytime Haku's using a special move. He spends meter and gets blown away during startup + active frames.

Unless it's Renka (1) > Kishuu. :3

[toanenadiz]

...Since when could you not blow all 8 stars on a throw into Gurren x 8 combo?

[Isuna]

Extend. Gurren got repeat proration.

And Zanshin whiffs on Ragna if he uses ID as it has ass-long invulnerability.

So what you're saying is that our reward for reading and properly responding to their attack is...pretty much nothing? What are the confirmed situations in which someone could block our catch?

Jin J2C > jump cancel block

I don't know what happend to Hakumen but making his drive blockable isn't a big problem, they probably want to balance his match up with Carl without missing up the other match ups.

I don't know why they need balance a match-up that looks like nothing more than a 55-45 to me, while Tager have had 70-30's since CT.

The problem isn't that they made it blockable. They removed 6D and made all of them blockable and gave them more hitstop for Hakumen and made 5D/2D uncomboable.

[Warhound]

Jin J2C > jump cancel block

I don't know why they need balance a match-up that looks like nothing more than a 55-45 to me, while Tager have had 70-30's since CT.

The problem isn't that they made it blockable. They removed 6D and made all of them blockable and gave them more hitstop for Hakumen and made 5D/2D uncomboable.

That's what I was looking for, things like J2C. I wonder what else. Right, I don't think people are quite understanding why we're so concerned for the concept they are running with so far. Counters are pretty much used for a few things only, but otherwise, you risk eating a counter/FC combo. Now they're relatively worthless to use unless it's for, I dunno, stopping damage on Lambda/Nu's Legacy Edge.

[BladeOfJustice7]

this is beyond true. play hakumen, it's fun turning your brain off.

[mAc Chaos]

Trying to burst 2C is the worst thing you could do. It's better to just let it hit you and burst somewhere else. Think about it, how often do you have a situation where you go for 2C but they can burst before it hits without getting screwed anyway. Or maybe I'm not thinking of the right situation.

[Sechs]

With the "improvements" to Zanshin, the opponent should have to spend meter(25% sound ok?) in order to block the drive.

To me, resisting a reversal sounds like a higher level technique that shouldn't be given for free.

That's like some random biker punk in Hokuto no Ken out-countering Toki whilst wearing a troll face.

[Wander]

also j2a when he's about to air dash is a good point

I suggest you make sure he actually air dashes when you burst, i think j.2a is maybe the hardest part to burst. I wont burst there unless i see them airdash afterwards

actually i dont know if you meant burst at the j.2a or after the j.2a. If they burst before i usually do super jump backwards j.2a and hope it cuts the burst

Edited October 2, 2012 by Wander

[mAc Chaos]

Just wait for the airdash, it's not like it's hard to make out.

[toanenadiz]

Maybe not for Mr. "Walk forward and 6D anything Tager does" but think about normal people like me.

[mAc Chaos]

oh my god this guy on ranked is raging at me, this is great

why dont more people have their mics on ranked this is ten times more fun

[mAc Chaos]

also how did you know i do that

[toanenadiz]

also how did you know i do that

Because that's what a scumbag would do.

[psycofang2]

turning my brain off, lol i wish i played ragna. but maybe thats my problem, maybe...ive been going at this all the wrong way since ct, instead of using my brain to try and get into the opponents head and abuse their weaknesses like ive been doing why not just...let haku win for me...:O

but no seriously the fact that his drives (NOT COMPLAINING MIND YOU) are blockable, seemingly uncomboable, and the can be blocked makes me think his drives are becoming more of a deterent for multi hit attacks and not sinlge hits, which lessens its use.

so basically stop using drive on anything that has a brain, gotcha.

[Isuna]

They are not seemingly uncomboable, 5D/2D are uncombable outside Kishin. 6D is always comboable, and there is rumours that low air JD chains to 5A.

[psycofang2]

Now that just sounds plain weird.

Kishin is his OD right? So then does the hitstun proerteis of his drive change when kishin is activated allowing him to combo after its activated or are we talking

kishin>5D>etc?

or

5D>kishin>etc?

or

lol dont even drive just do a normal combo?

[StarGazer]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFKTilx-FM8

This orb set up give Makoto the enough time to jump away, any other set up will lose to 6D/2D. In CP we this might be easier to get or have a lot of variation which will make the wake up game more interesting and fun.

[Isuna]

Now that just sounds plain weird.

Kishin is his OD right? So then does the hitstun proerteis of his drive change when kishin is activated allowing him to combo after its activated or are we talking

kishin>5D>etc?

or

5D>kishin>etc?

or

lol dont even drive just do a normal combo?

[psycofang2]

no wonder, now it makes sense.

[dioxideUniversa]

This orb set up give Makoto the enough time to jump away, any other set up will lose to 6D/2D. In CP we this might be easier to get or have a lot of variation which will make the wake up game more interesting and fun.

[StarGazer]

Yeah, i am aware of it. Its useless to drop a big chunk of your damage for something meh especially when we need every bit of reward to beat Hakumen in EX. But with Hakumen CP changes and Makoto new combo routes (could be better or worse) we might see a orb oki vs Hakumen.

Also. i'm the only one with dumb video titles here xD

Edited October 2, 2012 by StarGazer

[dioxideUniversa]

I messed with it with CP changes in mind. He probably can't do the same Enma combo, but IIRC, in terms of the parry and kishuu frame data allowing for such things to happen, it doesn't necessarily mean that meaty mids/lows will be more plausible in CP than they already are because 2D will still be frame 1. 2D has elevated reward for the Hakumen in the corner for obvious reasons.

It depends on how you handle your oki whether or not parrying it is really worth it for the Hakumen; I know parrying Plat's bubble on wakeup isn't always useful if they're expecting you to do so as it can create awkward situations for the Hakumen. In a lot of JP vids, high level players will typically just IB the bubble and then act due to parry attack whiffing taking too long.

There's always "Yeah well I'm just going to parry again after my parry whiff is over," but it's a gamble and one that isn't really worth it as far as risk reward. It would be right to assume that it will be even less worth it due to not being able to combo easily off parries in CP.

as far as dumb video titles: think again

[Isuna]

Guys, guys!

I just looked at the JBBS and they have been talking about some very weird stuff laterly. I have no idea if they are talking about CP or EX. Maybe it just me interpretating it wrongly...

Apparently, if you air throw closest possible to ground, you can cancel it with ground specials. o_O

lowest JT > Mugen > 2B chains.

lowest JT > Kishuu with 6C and 3C ender does around 4k.

However, they agree that whatever this is, it will never become useful.

After this, they seem to be discussing "feint moves" and okizeme with Hakumen.

[mAc Chaos]

Feint, how? He has one, or just, it would be neat if he could fake a Tsubaki or something.