itsme Posted February 15, 2013 Posted February 15, 2013 There really isn't any point in using OD Mugen aside from cases where characters like Tao, Valk and Hazama tries to beat the clock against Haku with their superior movement options but I think figuring out the max confirm or at least the combo parts for Mugen would be beneficial when time comes. But yeah, obviously if you have a burst and 8 mags on like a knockdown or early~mid game, spending meter then going into an unburstable OD combo is much better. Also, I just calculated a Renka(1) starter combo with the above combo minus the 5C > Renka(2) > Shippu(w) > Shippu end with just 5C > Shippu and it only maxes out at 6.5k, I guess it can't be helped.
Schneider-X Posted February 15, 2013 Posted February 15, 2013 (edited) Mugen > OD > Tsubaki > 5C > Guren > Shippu(w) > Zantetsu(1) > Kishuu > 6C > Shippu(w) > Kishuu > 5C > Kishuu > 2C > jB > Agito > jC > Shippu(w) > 5C > Renka(2) > Shippu (w) > Shippu 9044 damage (slightly charging 6C increases damage to 9082) Is there any mention of how much OD meter they had? I would assume for the whole combo they had full OD. I can imagine landing the combo off of a throw like so: throw > mugen > renka (1) > kishuu > TK tsubaki > 5C > OD cancel > guren > Shippu(w) > zantetsu (1) > kishuu > 6C > Shippu(w) > kishuu > 5C > shippu The damage won't be murdered as badly if hop tsubaki can connect immediately after mugen. Edited February 15, 2013 by Schneider-X
LegendaryRath Posted February 16, 2013 Posted February 16, 2013 Oh practical mugen loops, I'll miss you dearly.
psycofang2 Posted February 16, 2013 Posted February 16, 2013 Oh practical mugen loops, I'll miss you dearly. when did i miss this party? also is it confirmed of denied that you can FC enma into mugen? judging for the hit stun off Fc enma you should have to to go mugen and still land a renka before they tech.
itsme Posted February 16, 2013 Posted February 16, 2013 Is there any mention of how much OD meter they had? I would assume for the whole combo they had full OD. It's probably assuming that the OD lasts enough so the combo goes all the way through so its probably at a longer OD meter. Also, I think if you really want to hit big numbers with Mugen combos this game, you need starters like Tsubaki (3.3k raw), Zantetsu(1) (2.5k raw) or maybe even OD wave (3.2k raw) to get a headstart on damage since the Mugen combo rate rapes the overall damage in general aside for the Shippu blade's and even that still only has a minimum of 1120. Oh practical mugen loops, I'll miss you dearly. I'm going to miss midscreen Mugen mixups with grab > Shippu for a free 5k. also is it confirmed of denied that you can FC enma into mugen? judging for the hit stun off Fc enma you should have to to go mugen and still land a renka before they tech. It sounds plausible though I think no one attempted to test it out since it doesn't sound like it'll net much especially since Mugen's standalone timer now is much more shorter.
psycofang2 Posted February 17, 2013 Posted February 17, 2013 even so the fact that it could possibly work makes it worth it in a sense. theoretical situation: both characters OD has been used up, you have 7-8 stars, land a FC enma >mugen> attempt to kill them off.
itsme Posted February 17, 2013 Posted February 17, 2013 Considering all specials but Agito now has SMP which Mugen counts now, off of a FC Enma I think doing a combo with Zantetsu(1) and Shippu would amount to a lot more than a Mugen combo (which also cuts all our damage due to the 30% combo rate and only Shippu sword ignoring the combo rate during Mugen) that could possibly utilize each special once with a Shippu ender. The other thing about the Mugen+OD combo is that it has like 5 OD Shippu waves which contributes at least 3k~ to the damage is something Mugen itself cannot do due to it being an OD property. I also calculated FC Enma into Mugen and a normal confirm and something like FC Enma > Mugen > TK Tsubaki > 5C > Zantetsu(1) > Guren > Kishuu > 5C > Renka(1) > Kishuu > 2C > TK Hotaru > ad j2C > 5C > Kishuu Enma > j2C > Agito > 5C > Shippu would do 5.2k while something simple as FC Enma > jc j2C > 5C > Zantetsu(1) > Shippu would do 5.4k easily. So yeah, even if it would work I think at best it would be a style points combo.
psycofang2 Posted February 17, 2013 Posted February 17, 2013 if thats so then i almost see no point in mugen minus stacking it with OD. it has over time become the most useless super ever.
itsme Posted February 17, 2013 Posted February 17, 2013 (edited) I actually think the current Mugen is one of the more useful Mugen he got. Yeah you have to waste a burst to stack it with OD but the Shippu wave spamming guaranteeing a chance to let you get in for free from full screen even for one more extra move (which can go into whatever mix up and pressure you can imagine if you catch the opponent blocking) is a really powerful tool, I think it's a decent option he gained to be able to deal with people trying to time him out or tries to just zone him through the game; though you really shouldn't be putting yourself in situations where you have to bank on it to win. Looking back at the other Mugen's, I think it would be something like CP=>CSE=CS2>CS1>CT in terms of Mugen's utility, CSE/2's Mugen was really useful for those one shot Shippu while CS1 Mugen needed you to get either a max 6C FC or 6D to confirm 10k+ and CT Mugen was completely for style. I think it has been improving every iteration though in terms of damage, I guess it has gotten quite nerfed. I'm just glad they didn't just make Mugen our OD in the end mostly because our OD's design pretty much lets Hakumen always be in an advantageous situation while Mugen's design ends with us being in a terrible situation. Edited February 17, 2013 by itsme
psycofang2 Posted February 17, 2013 Posted February 17, 2013 i ment as a stand alone super. OD+mugen is out right insane. The advantage it gives the user is absurd especially since once it ends youll still have 8 stars. which means even if you didnt hit them repeatedly with something during super mugen, you are already in with a full guage to unload.
psycofang2 Posted February 17, 2013 Posted February 17, 2013 if you even land the 10f start up drive yes. you should still be able to. now why you would go mugen after that, im unsure.
mAc Chaos Posted February 17, 2013 Posted February 17, 2013 if you hit 6D your xbox deserves to explode
Ctrlaltwtf Posted February 17, 2013 Posted February 17, 2013 Doesn't 6D have okay proration now though? So wouldn't 6D > Mugen be like a 1 shotter?
psycofang2 Posted February 17, 2013 Posted February 17, 2013 no as was stated earlier you may as well 6D>zantetsu>shippu for higher damage at less of a cost.
Isuna Posted February 17, 2013 Posted February 17, 2013 if you even land the 10f start up drive yes. Wasn't it 17F? Doesn't 6D have okay proration now though? So wouldn't 6D > Mugen be like a 1 shotter? 6D has got 80 P2 which is the best of the counters yes. By the way, how do you follow up 6D?
Ctrlaltwtf Posted February 17, 2013 Posted February 17, 2013 (edited) Wasn't it 17F? 6D has got 80 P2 which is the best of the counters yes. By the way, how do you follow up 6D? In CSX you can do 6D > Mugen > Kishuu > Renka then proceed to Renka (1) > Zantetsu (1) > Kishuu for a while and end it with Shippu, does about 7.5k+ off of 6D I have no idea about CP, but if Zantetsu > Shippu is better than it must be terrible. Edited February 17, 2013 by Ctrlaltwtf
psycofang2 Posted February 17, 2013 Posted February 17, 2013 its simply because now apparently mugen has SMP on all the attacks but agito, which means they can only be used once. most mugen combos juggled between renka (1)>zantetsu x N>shippu. older mugen combos were repeatedly mashing tk/hop tsubaki into shippu. the problem with this games mugen combos is the fact you cant use his strongest specials repeatedly so you have to use every special avaliable which if anyone knows how hakumens combos work, drops the damage severely. it becomes reverse cost-effective.
itsme Posted February 17, 2013 Posted February 17, 2013 (edited) i ment as a stand alone super. OD+mugen is out right insane. The advantage it gives the user is absurd especially since once it ends youll still have 8 stars. which means even if you didnt hit them repeatedly with something during super mugen, you are already in with a full guage to unload. Oh yeah, definitely a terrible super to use alone. Also, Mugen still goes on if your OD runs out so you're pretty much left with a short amount of time trying to scramble something up until your meter dies. Basically what you want is to use up Mugen during OD by landing either Shippu or Yukikaze so that your Mugen ends (which leaves you with 0 mags) during OD while your OD cancels out the heavy meter gain pause Mugen causes so you can continue on regularly if you couldn't manage to take out the opponent during Mugen+OD. Can you still Mugen off of 6D? Don't know if this was ever brought up but iirc Mugen's start up and/or recovery got buffed so we can go into Mugen from our forward grab too, though I don't think you can net off much from it. So yeah, considering our drives are still DD cancel-able, I don't see why not though despite the decent prorations 6D has we probably wouldn't net much. Also, I'm not sure if 6D > Zantetsu would connect aside from during OD, it might be plausible but I think no one really tested it out because of how useless our new 6D is. I forgot the exact information but I remember during the loketest or early arcade release, there was a post on how we could or couldn't barely confirm off of it into a jump forward jB. Don't know how many frames is that but I guess anything that takes less time than that could work. Edited February 17, 2013 by itsme
Isuna Posted February 18, 2013 Posted February 18, 2013 In CSX you can do 6D > Mugen > Kishuu > Renka almost anything As they have said that you can combo of 6D without OD, I wonder what do you do? Step 2B? Gurren? IAD J2C? The one time I used during the loketest it felt like the time was severely cut compared to extend.
Ctrlaltwtf Posted February 18, 2013 Posted February 18, 2013 As they have said that you can combo of 6D without OD, I wonder what do you do? Step 2B? Gurren? IAD J2C? The one time I used during the loketest it felt like the time was severely cut compared to extend. I said "In CSX" so that means Extend, I meant "you can do this in Extend, so what's its equivalent in CP?" In CSX you continue 6D with a j2C > 2C in most situations. I have no idea what's optimal in CP.
Isuna Posted February 18, 2013 Posted February 18, 2013 I live in Japan, Extend doesn't exist anymore for me. : P My original question was regarding CP, I guess I should have said that.
Ctrlaltwtf Posted February 18, 2013 Posted February 18, 2013 I live in Japan, Extend doesn't exist anymore for me. : P Rub it in my face some more
dioxideUniversa Posted February 19, 2013 Posted February 19, 2013 (edited) do we know how OTG j.2Cs work at all in CP? i know you can do j.2c > 2c only at the start of certain low proration combos but i can't think of any OTG j.2cs besides 6D or air throw (something else I can't say I've seen a lot of in CP) Edited February 19, 2013 by dioxideUniversa
BlackYakuzu94 Posted February 19, 2013 Posted February 19, 2013 do we know how OTG j.2Cs work at all in CP? i know you can do j.2c > 2c only at the start of certain low proration combos but i can't think of any OTG j.2cs besides 6D or air throw (something else I can't say I've seen a lot of in CP) I've seen some people do it off of Agito but I think the timing is ridiculously strict.
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