Anji Mito: Anji Discussion Thread

[Wolf Pup TK]

I have a few questions, if you guys don't mind:

5P.

I suck at using it properly. It seems like a worthless ground to ground since it frequently misses and I don't think it combos into anything. As anti air, I find that it rarely beats out anything... am I just timing it wrong?

The next 2 are things I don't understand when I tried to do some of the things in this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wp4cO5i2vMY&feature=channel_page

S-Fujin, K(hop), S, S-Fujin, K(hop), K, S, etc

How the heck is this possible? I spent hours and simply cannot do this... It seems really useful to know...

P-stomp, K, S, On, IAD, j.p, j.s, K, S, On

Wow, again... How? I can get the first On, but after that is just a mystery to me.

Also, I see that many times in videos when someone hits with HSFujin all the way in the corner, they wait for the fujin followup window to end, then K, S, On. But I've never been able to get the timing right. Any tips?

Thanks!

[Dawnbringer]

5P is used as a poke.Although it's not great because it doesn't hit crouching opponents (aside from potemkin),it's an EXCELLENT way to stop them from doing many non-crouching moves when you're both close and in neutral positioning.For example against Slayer,5P eliminates all his standing actions (including 2S,2HS,2D) when performed at the same time and can go into 5P,6K or 2D.The +3 frame advantage isn't really dominating,but it's something for Anji.And you should think of 5P as a move that disrupt someone's game plan rather than a move that counters stuff. In general,5P is only a good AA when positioned correctly and not out prioritized by strong moves such as Order Sol's jHS or Slayer jHS.In which case,your best solution is to simply instant block (or if you're daring,air throw them or autoguard that). 5S S-Fuujin Loop is generally just for flash since 5K 5S S-Fuujin is the safer version,however...you have to knock them down in the corner for this to be possible.Simply practice by doing anything that bounces them up and then start the loop with 5S S-Fuujin (ie 214p or FB Rin[Fuujin D extension]). The On loop is basically showing how comfortable you are with Anji and your technical skill since it's an exact 1-frame timing to IAD combo into another On (combo varies for different characters as you can see in Half Nakedness). I can't really help you on this one.All I can really say is that you have to be able to grasp Anji's timings.These things can't really be taught to you by someone else.You'll just have to get a "feel" for Anji's flow.

[TheSlyMoogle]

I was recently dicking around with Anji in training; and while doing so, discovered a cool tech trap.

Combo into corner On, 66, 5P, SJ, tech air throw into 5P (or something else), On

Sequences like the above can knock off anywhere from 60% to 85% life. Since I can't possibly be the first to find this, I'd like to know if there's some reason I don't ever see it.

The reason you don't really see this is you're giving up a guaranteed knockdown for a setup that might possibly work. At high level play you don't see a lot of tech baiting for air throws either because setups like this obviously scream that they are setups. It's a great idea at the time, but probably not something you'll land more than once in a set, and maybe not even then. Take the guaranteed knockdown and butterfly setup because then you have way more options in the corner than a shitty tech trap.

5P is used as a poke.Although it's not great because it doesn't hit crouching opponents (aside from potemkin),it's an EXCELLENT way to stop them from doing many non-crouching moves when you're both close and in neutral positioning.For example against Slayer,5P eliminates all his standing actions (including 2S,2HS,2D) when performed at the same time and can go into 5P,6K or 2D.The +3 frame advantage isn't really dominating,but it's something for Anji.And you should think of 5P as a move that disrupt someone's game plan rather than a move that counters stuff.

In general,5P is only a good AA when positioned correctly and not out prioritized by strong moves such as Order Sol's jHS or Slayer jHS.In which case,your best solution is to simply instant block (or if you're daring,air throw them or autoguard that).

5S S-Fuujin Loop is generally just for flash since 5K 5S S-Fuujin is the safer version,however...you have to knock them down in the corner for this to be possible.Simply practice by doing anything that bounces them up and then start the loop with 5S S-Fuujin (ie 214p or FB Rin[Fuujin D extension]).

The On loop is basically showing how comfortable you are with Anji and your technical skill since it's an exact 1-frame timing to IAD combo into another On (combo varies for different characters as you can see in Half Nakedness).

I can't really help you on this one.All I can really say is that you have to be able to grasp Anji's timings.These things can't really be taught to you by someone else.You'll just have to get a "feel" for Anji's flow.

Nah you have a couple of frames to get the IAD combo from On. like 3 or 4. Basically it pretty much only works on the characters shown at the end of the video. The main thing is the delays between the gatlings that makes it difficult. Kinda have to delay the J.HS a lot to get the 5k 5s or 5p into On. Practice it on testament if you want to do it. His and slayers are probably the easier ones to do. IAD j.k, j.s, j.hs, land, 5k, 5s On. Btw the timing for the 5k after landing is like that of when you do like the normal iad combos on a standing opponent. The hardest part of the combo really is the IAD on the first couple of frames after you land from the first ON.

[Shining Aquas]

Question: What is the general effectiveness of using an up close P-stomp for a mix-up option? I know the use is somewhat limited since you throw yourself so much in danger with some characters, but it is an interesting cross up option that seems pretty simple to air combo into.

[Tiamat]

I think it's more of a pressure move than a mixup move. It's hard to set up an ambiguous crossup with 214P. On block it's +2 and if they IB it you'll be +0 (neutral) so as long as you don't get hit out of it or miss you should be fine. If they IB it it may be good idea to backdash as many quick retaliations will miss if you do this (saw Domi do this a lot.)

[Wolf Pup TK]

5P is used as a poke.Although it's not great because it doesn't hit crouching opponents (aside from potemkin),it's an EXCELLENT way to stop them from doing many non-crouching moves when you're both close and in neutral positioning.For example against Slayer,5P eliminates all his standing actions (including 2S,2HS,2D) when performed at the same time and can go into 5P,6K or 2D.The +3 frame advantage isn't really dominating,but it's something for Anji.And you should think of 5P as a move that disrupt someone's game plan rather than a move that counters stuff.

In general,5P is only a good AA when positioned correctly and not out prioritized by strong moves such as Order Sol's jHS or Slayer jHS.In which case,your best solution is to simply instant block (or if you're daring,air throw them or autoguard that).

5S S-Fuujin Loop is generally just for flash since 5K 5S S-Fuujin is the safer version,however...you have to knock them down in the corner for this to be possible.Simply practice by doing anything that bounces them up and then start the loop with 5S S-Fuujin (ie 214p or FB Rin[Fuujin D extension]).

The On loop is basically showing how comfortable you are with Anji and your technical skill since it's an exact 1-frame timing to IAD combo into another On (combo varies for different characters as you can see in Half Nakedness).

I can't really help you on this one.All I can really say is that you have to be able to grasp Anji's timings.These things can't really be taught to you by someone else.You'll just have to get a "feel" for Anji's flow.

Ah, I finally got the timing of the S-fujin loop. I was mistiming the S after the k-hop.

I've tried to throw 5P in as an interrupt. It works a little more that way, though it still seems like so many moves duck under it. I'll keep working on it.

I'm generally trying to expand beyond K,S,H,H-Fujin, FB-Rin,K,S,On... and 214p/k S, 8, S, sji, j.s, j.p, j.s, jc, j.s, j.p, j.s, j.d

Pretty much the only 2 combos I use, and I really want to get better at linking other sequences than just that.

Thanks for the input... I'll keep experimenting to try and do more.

[TheSlyMoogle]

Ah, I finally got the timing of the S-fujin loop. I was mistiming the S after the k-hop.

I've tried to throw 5P in as an interrupt. It works a little more that way, though it still seems like so many moves duck under it. I'll keep working on it.

I'm generally trying to expand beyond K,S,H,H-Fujin, FB-Rin,K,S,On... and 214p/k S, 8, S, sji, j.s, j.p, j.s, jc, j.s, j.p, j.s, j.d

Pretty much the only 2 combos I use, and I really want to get better at linking other sequences than just that.

Thanks for the input... I'll keep experimenting to try and do more.

Just got back to TN and too tired to respond with the long ass post I need to make...

So I will leave this post here to remind me to edit and do it. Shit probably just make a thread later that has been a long time coming.

[Wolf Pup TK]

Thanks, I really appreciate it! Though if the post/thread will be about improving being more than just combos, I know I need to focus on more. I'm also working on things like spacing/zoning, and mixups. Any input on that would also be much appreciated. Maybe I'll try to get a few vids of myself for specific feedback. :D

[Kyle]

Corner Only: Does not require a second jump option.

Dust, ^, J.D, J.D, J.K, J.S, J.D, J.HS

I kept trying:

Dust, Reverse IAD, J.S, ^, J.D, J.S, J.D, AirDash J.P, J.S, J.D

But I couldn't get J.P to beat, it probably will but my Square was dysfunctional and I mapped it to L1, awkward.

[TheSlyMoogle]

Kliff looks like hell for Anji.

[Silmerion]

Kliff looks like hell for Anji.

Dat tiny hitbox/counter stance/sword vault.

I have a feeling he's going to be a problem for a lot of characters.

[Jocelot]

So how is Anji holding up so far in +R? Overall better, worse, hard to say etc.

[Dream Maker]

He is better that's for sure but for his actual tier placement relative to other characters, it's still hard to say. The reason being that the vast majority of the Anji players (including me TBH) still rely mainly on his AC playstyle. Anji got almost only buffs and a lot of them, but they are very often discrete changes and very few of them really force you to find new ways to play him. So it looks like he's basically stronger overall, but with a playstyle that is almost identical to accent core.

There are a few changes that should open new possibilies for his playstyle but the prospects seem limited so far and few players seem to actually use that in their game :

- 5P's level increase : allows to combo into S fuujin and 5HS, this can be used to facilitate fuujin loops and give easier combos after nagiha in the corner. On the ground 5P 3S cancelled into 5S is also a legit starter although only on standing opponents.

- Delayed gatlings should allow for nasty frametraps and autoguard baits on pressure.

- The new 6HS and the possibility to cancel it as well as 5D gives him new pressure as well as combo options but many people still don't take advantage of that.

- And of course the new FB On should in theory completely change some matchups but as you can see on the vids so far it's almost not used. I'm myself forgetting its existence every time I play.

If I have to make a guess though I think Anji looks strong in this game, his buffs makes his original AC gameplay more viable and powerful and already makes him look like a solid mid-tier. When more players will start to figure out and actually implement good tactics from his new stuff in their gameplay I see him maybe having the potential for upper mid tier, depending on how the other characters evolve. I don't really see him going above that, nor going back to lower than mids like his AC status.

Edited October 7, 2012 by Dream Maker

[TheSlyMoogle]

Also it seems like compared to a lot of the cast, he didn't lose as much damage on his combos. I notice them doing slightly less, but not much. Especially since he can chunk guardbar again with 5s. Mmm 5s.

[Dream Maker]

I think the only "loss" in Anji's damage is due to everyone's life bar going up by 10%. So actually he probably didn't lose anything, although we'll have to wait for the frame data to confirm that.

[Adam0812]

Hi guys just got gg on xbl. How on earth are you supposed to do the fb fujin iAd jSH link. I can iad easy on bb but can't connect the jS.

Help appreciated

[Dream Maker]

You mean you want to IAD into S, HS after doing Fuujin into FB Rin(236S or HS into D)? Normally IADs aren't different between BB and GG. You press 9, quickly go back to neutral and then quickly press 6. If you still can't do it then it's probably just a timing problem due to you being used to BB timing. Either too late or too fast; note that you can't airdash too close to the ground so if you do it too fast your character just won't air dash.

However for your own combos, I don't recommend doing IAD jS, jHS after FB Rin, there are better things to do. Let's say you can launch your opponent with a fuujin into FB Rin, it's better to do another fuujin HS into K followup (the small jump forward) and when landing do 5K, 5S, 623 HS (on). Thus you'll get some pretty nice damage and get a knockdown. This is Anji's number one bread and butter.

Practical combo example :

5S, 5HS, 236HS D, 236HS K (anji should land in the corner and switch sides if you started close to the corner), 5K, 5S, 623HS

If you're far from the corner when you start the combo, you have to input the second 236HS as 2366HS to close the distance by buffing a ground dash into it. Then pick up with 5P, 623HS instead of 5K, 5S, 623HS. Hope that will help.

Edited October 26, 2012 by Dream Maker

[Adam0812]

Thanks man, is there a good AC bnb video?

I'm struggling to do Tiamats corner bnb, 5k5s5h2d 236s-s/d > 236h > 5k5s on.

Is the follow up to 2d char specific and after the 236s - s/d how on earth do you follow up with another fujin??

I'm a good tsubaki player so IAD's are no issue at all, but am I right in saying fb rin must wall stick to do the Iad follow up?

[Dream Maker]

For basic combos and setups look at japanese match videos like this one : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtaXLEYr57Q

Most combo videos you can find online are unfortunately mostly show-off vids that don't show many practical combos. I can't remember of any video that shows Anji's BnBs.

For this combo : 5k5s5h2d 236s-s/d > 236h > 5k5s on

2D, 236S won't work on Johnny, ABA, Potemkin, Robo-Ky and Order-Sol. It works on everyone else however so most of the cast in fact. And you can followup with 236H only if you use the force break D followup (Rin). The S followup option is here to finish the combo in case you don't have enough tension, you can't followup after it with another fuujin.

Also FB Rin doesn't wallstick, so there is no point in doing an IAD followup. But if you really want to do that and jS, jHS doesn't work, it's possible you have to add a jP before jS, jHS for it to connect though.

Also, maybe you're mixing up with the autoguard move Aoi (K during an autoguard). This move blows the opponent back and wallsticks if done close enough to the corner also wallsticks. Then you just have to followup with a very fast IAD into jS, jHS for knockdown.

[Adam0812]

Thanks dream that's a big help, understandably the resources for this game, or anji, are limited compared to BB. I've been working through tiamats guide.

Would you so kind as to share some block strings?

[Fenrir Werwolf]

Thanks dream that's a big help, understandably the resources for this game, or anji, are limited compared to BB. I've been working through tiamats guide.

Would you so kind as to share some block strings?

Anything into butterfly is a nice start

[Dream Maker]

Ahh blockstrings... Blockstrings really aren't an easy aspect in Anji's gameplay in Accent Core. It gets better in ACR but in AC you're stuck with a character that cannot really keep pressure for long without taking risks. Being aware of those risks, managing them properly and also knowing when it's better to avoid risk and just cut your pressure short will make you a better Anji player as you won't give your opponent easy opportunities to punish you while pressuring. One important thing to keep in mind though : with Anji, you don't really want to be in a situation when you have to keep your opponent in guard for a long time, because he's not good at that and because if it happens, it means you have failed your initial mix-up attempt. Anji is a real boss at okizeme, but he's also by far one of the worst characters in the game at keeping pressure IMO.

With that said, there will be times when you'll have to try to keep pressure to keep your momentum, so let's cover it.

First, there is a move that looks good for blockstrings but in reality isn't quite safe : Fuujin (236S/HS). It is interesting because this move has 5 different followups and as such it can submit your opponent to an interesting mix-up game, however every single followup carries some risk :

- P followup : you go in the air and throw fans, it's slow to come out but can catch the opponent by surprise. However it doesn't really give good reward and if your opponent sees it coming he can jump and punish you. I wouldn't recommend using it too much in AC (it's a bit better in ACR though).

- K followup : hop behind the opponent. You can do it to surprise-throw your opponent, however if they're used to it they'll always be able to grab you first, unless they tried to mash something. If you do fuujin close enough you can land outside of throw range and punish their missed throw with a quick move, however if they see through your trick they can counter this by also mashing a quick move and beat you out.

- S followup : low fan sweep. If they try to mash something after blocking fuujin they'll likely eat the move. However the move in itself is very unsafe. If you FRC it becomes safe but you'll have to stop pressure. The only way to continue pressure after it is to plain RC it, this can be useful at times but it's very tension consuming so don't abuse it.

- HS followup : non-FB rin. The move is very slow to come out but as early mid autoguard frames and throw invincibility frames. It's easy to punish with a low if your opponent sees it however it is good as an anti-jump, so if they tend to jump after blocking fuujin you can use it pretty much safely. On block it gives a very small advantage, so you can continue pressure with a fast move but be careful of interrupts.

- D followup : FB rin. Just like normal Rin it's easily punishable by a low but your opponent will need to react more quickly. So you can sometimes catch them off guard with this move. It's faster than rin, hits mid and has better frame advantage and combo capabilities but on the other hand has very small autoguard frames.

Also if your opponent likes to wait and see when you use fuujin on block, you can just do nothing and then hit 5HS after recovering to jack their guard bar. However if they see through this trick they can punish you easily as fuujin on block without any followup puts you at huge disadvantage.

So to sum up, fuujin in general is very risky to use. Fuujin mixups are good to use once in a while but are very risky. If you're opponent is very good at fighting Anji and has good reaction capabilities, you'll get punished a lot for using them. It's better to test the water first with the safer options to see if trying fuujin mixups will be worth doing on an opponent or not. And at higher level it's most often not to be perfectly clear. So be very careful with fuujin used in blockstrings.

Apart from that your options in blockstrings are pretty limited. As fenrir mentioned, the butterfly can give you some opportunities to continue pressure. However you need to do it at the good distance. Too close from your opponent and you'll be at huge disadvantage. Too far and he'll escape too easily. To do it well, you need your opponent to block it when he just recovered from the blockstun of your previous move. If done so he'll have trouble to escape, and you'll be able to continue pressure further.

For other noteworthy pressure moves, 2K is the only normal move that nets you a good frame advantage on block (+6) so it's very interesting to use. A bunch of moves also put you at small advantage or small disadvantage so are basically safe to finish strings with : 5K, 214P, 3P, 5S, 5HS. 5K and 214P can be followup up by fast moves but aren't safe from DP mashing, they're also decent to set up tick throws. 5HS has quite a big frame disadvantage but pushes your opponent so far that you're basically safe from pretty much everything if you just end with this move.

Some pressure strings examples that take advantage of what I said :

-> K > S > HS > 236HS > fuujin mixup

As I said before, fuujin mixups carry a lot of risk, to use sparingly.

-> K > 214P > K > S > HS

-> 2P > 2K > dash > K > 214P > walk forward a bit > throw

-> 2P > 2K > small dash > 2K > HS

-> K > S > 236P > (pretty much anything)

Decent butterfly blockstring setup if you started close to the enemy. After that you can mixup anything if your opponent blocks the butterfly. Most people won't just sit and wait though, so it's to wait and see what escape they are attempting to get out of the butterfly and punish that escape accordingly.

-> K > S > HS > 6K FRC (whiff) > dash > 2S/S/K

Kind of gimmicky pressure string that can surprise your opponent. You're basically using 6K FRC as a way to cancel 5HS and continue pressure from there. The opponent can beat you out of it if they react fast though but most of the time they'll be surprised and eat a counter if they try to mash out.

Sorry for the big post. But IMO blockstrings are one of Anji's greatest weak points in AC so this part desserves some thorough explanations.

Edited October 27, 2012 by Dream Maker

[Fenrir Werwolf]

I also like to finish some blockstrings with 2H, that's really good at the right distance again enemies spamming lows thanks to the autoguard of the move

Also sometimes I like to use 214k FRC. After that you can just land and throw, or just wait the opponent try to punish you and react. On block k Kai can help to gain space and keep the pressure, but if not canceled with FRC is totally unsafe, since the opponent can easily see it arriving from the sky. It's a nice idea to do it sometimes, since on mid it can also crossup

[Dream Maker]

Yep forgot about 2H and 214K. You need to be wary when using 214K though, even with an FRC some people react so fast to it that they'll air throw you or hit you out of it with whatever move before you have time to do anything. I love to throw in this move once in a while but got punished several times for it. :'(

[Adam0812]

That's great stuff guys thanks very much, like I say the resources are limited so I'm grateful for your advice.

What's a decent punish for someone who jumps back after the first butterfly hit to escape