[CS1] Noel Beginner Questions: You Gotta Start Somewhere

[thetysman]

Hello to everyone, I've been lurking here for a while reading the forums but never registering myself and posting. I decided it was time to register here and start posting after I encountered this problem that I don't think I'll be able to solve without some advice from here .

I've been learning/practicing Noel's combos from the CS1 combo thread to a varying level of success, some of them have been fairly easy to master while others have proven to be more difficult. One in particular has been giving me quite the headache.

5A 6A 6C 236A dash 6C 5D d.6B (d.5B) d.5C j.D d.6D Bloom

I've been practicing this combo midscreen on Bang for a while now but I keep encountering this problem:

After the 6C 5D the opponent bounces up too high and d.6B cannot reach them. Timing wise I'm just pretty much inputting everything as fast as possible perhaps with the exception of the dash which I still sometimes screw up and end up with a blue beat by the time I 6C. I can get the 5D d.6B to connect fine if I leave the 6C too late and end up with a blue beat, obviously this is not how the combo should go but it suggests that if I leave the 6C later I'm more likely to connect D to d.6B? Perhaps I'm simply too far away from the opponent when I use my 6C? I'm not really sure what I'm doing wrong here so if anyone could give me some insight as to how I'm supposed to do this combo it would be greatly appreciated.

[LunaKage]

d.6B > d.5B wont work midscreen for starters, but since that's not your problem, I'll move on.

When doing that combo, its usually best to instead do:

5A > 6A > 6C > 236A > 66C > j.D > d.6D > d.5C > d.6B > 236D

However as far as midscreen 5A combos go, you may want to practice:

5A > 6A > 6C > 2D > 623D > 66C > j.D > d.6D > d.5C > d.6B > 236D

In my experience, its not that reliable to do a 5D combo after an optic barrel link, not to say it wouldn't work, but its probably too much trouble for its reward.

Another problem is you're training dummy, Bang's hitbox isn't nice to 5D > d.6B combos, they still work on him, but they are made much harder.

[SkyKing]

Hello to everyone, I've been lurking here for a while reading the forums but never registering myself and posting. I decided it was time to register here and start posting after I encountered this problem that I don't think I'll be able to solve without some advice from here .

I've been learning/practicing Noel's combos from the CS1 combo thread to a varying level of success, some of them have been fairly easy to master while others have proven to be more difficult. One in particular has been giving me quite the headache.

5A 6A 6C 236A dash 6C 5D d.6B (d.5B) d.5C j.D d.6D Bloom

I've been practicing this combo midscreen on Bang for a while now but I keep encountering this problem:

After the 6C 5D the opponent bounces up too high and d.6B cannot reach them. Timing wise I'm just pretty much inputting everything as fast as possible perhaps with the exception of the dash which I still sometimes screw up and end up with a blue beat by the time I 6C. I can get the 5D d.6B to connect fine if I leave the 6C too late and end up with a blue beat, obviously this is not how the combo should go but it suggests that if I leave the 6C later I'm more likely to connect D to d.6B? Perhaps I'm simply too far away from the opponent when I use my 6C? I'm not really sure what I'm doing wrong here so if anyone could give me some insight as to how I'm supposed to do this combo it would be greatly appreciated.

I find it is usually where you hit that 6C that may cause you to drop the combo. Make sure that the opponent is right where the guns are during the 6C animation. If you catch them on the top of the guns, you'll have to adjust the combo so that you can finish it, probably using sj.D instead of 5D. Once you get the feel and the look of the 6C, the rest of the combo should fall into place. Also, the dash-6C doesn't have to be done at the fastest possible moment. You can actually delay it a bit so that you get the correct height for the 5D > d.6B to catch.

[tomatotron]

I've been using this combo a lot, so I think I may be able to help with this one :P Personally, I delay the 5D after the 66C, otherwise I find it's gonna bluebeat. If you played Calamity Trigger, it's kinda like the delay between the first drive 5C and the second drive 6B in her BnB.

[Klazzix]

Gist

In simpler words, the opponent is too high above the ground for the 5D d.6B to connect after an Optic 66C. Like the others have said it's much easier or more consistent to go with "Optic 66C sj.D d.6D d.5C d.6B Bloom" midscreen. IF you really wanna get a 5D in there you can do 6C throw 6C to bring them closer to the ground as possible for the d.6B to hit, and it's probably blue beat.

[DubiousCurvLoop]

Hey guys, does anyone know right off what Noel's SD on block is after 6A/5B/5C/6B > BC (whiff)?

I know that they're all negative from doing the simple jump test, but I'm not sure of the exact numbers.

[thetysman]

Thank you everyone for the quick responses and advice, I put your advice to use and was finally able to do the combo. In the end I also took LunaKage's advice about trying out the other combo which I found I prefer in the end and I am now learning that. My j.D > d.6D still whiffs about 50% of the time when they ground bounce but I will hopefully be able to figure this out on my own, if not I guess I’ll post back here asking in a few days .

[LunaKage]

Thank you everyone for the quick responses and advice, I put your advice to use and was finally able to do the combo. In the end I also took LunaKage's advice about trying out the other combo which I found I prefer in the end and I am now learning that. My j.D > d.6D still whiffs about 50% of the time when they ground bounce but I will hopefully be able to figure this out on my own, if not I guess I’ll post back here asking in a few days .

That is an easy fix, you can do one of two things, or both and it should fix your problem.

1. Super jump j.D

2. Jump *Small Delay* j.D

Both: Super Jump *Small Delay* j.D

Be aware though, that if you super jump, you will usually end up on the other side of your opponent, so be sure to change your input for d.6D accordingly.

[Sahgren]

Hey guys, does anyone know right off what Noel's SD on block is after 6A/5B/5C/6B > BC (whiff)?

I know that they're all negative from doing the simple jump test, but I'm not sure of the exact numbers.

For one, you can't throw cancel 6B. Just nitpicking there, but it helps to remember.

I'm not entirely certain what SD is, but if you're referring to 5D, it's -23 if you stop and reload.

[ThunderboltZ28]

Okay I'm having trouble with jD again. This time its 2b >/AA 6A > 6C > 2D > SR > 66C > jD and then they tech. I'm using sjD and I've tried delaying it, but they always tech.

[Klazzix]

Omit either the 6A or 6C and directly go into 2D SR? A clean 6A/6C 2D SR works as a good AA too.

Edit: If they're too far for SR to connect throw out an Optic A -> 6C combo for OKI + air unblockable.

Edited January 30, 2011 by Klazzix

[ThunderboltZ28]

Well if I omit the 6A I kinda get rid of my main AA starter. I'll try 6A into 2D. Is it proation? Because I'm not having trouble at that part. Its just the 66C sjD.

[Klazzix]

I don't know much about the proration stuff but I can say 6A directly into 2D SR is much more consistent than 6A 6C 2D SR and it gives you some time to hit confirm the SR than whiffing a 6C under those circumstances.

[ThunderboltZ28]

Hmm...okay 6A > 2D puts them lower than if I did 6C in there. I can cross them up every time and do the combo. I guess that works. Thanks.

Edited January 30, 2011 by ThunderboltZ28

[Klazzix]

Whew, no prob. Glad to be of help. I guess I can call myself semi-pro now? Just playing.

[ThunderboltZ28]

So this combo only works off a very close AA 6A or 2b > 6A. If I hit a full range AA 6A I should 5C sj air combo, right?

[Klazzix]

At max range 5C's probably gonna whiff on an airborne opponent as well, just go straight to j.BAB j.BC RB. Or do the 2D optic A 6C Oki-style. P.S. Forward tech kills everything.

[ThunderboltZ28]

2-2D ,Optic Barrel A, 6c oki? W-what?

[Klazzix]

Uhhh - 6A 2D 'they tech' and when they do, they're gonna be spot on for Optic A 6C. If they like to chicken block, 6C is gonna catch 'em off guard probably.

[ThunderboltZ28]

T-too advanced for me.

[Klazzix]

L-lol. I'm s-sorry. >< Haha. It's all good, just keep at it! Like I d-do...

[Nini Heart]

If you hit 6A max range CH you can do IAD>land>6C>finish your combo. Looks pretty sick.

[Sahgren]

From what I can tell, 6A > 6C > 2D > SR can actually let you catch the opponent too early, so the hitstun from j.D doesn't last long enough to let you land d.6D afterwards even if you delay a sj.D. I had the same problem; got through it by catching them as late as possible with the 66C.

[DubiousCurvLoop]

For one, you can't throw cancel 6B. Just nitpicking there, but it helps to remember.

I'm not entirely certain what SD is, but if you're referring to 5D, it's -23 if you stop and reload.

I meant to put 6C instead of 6B, sorry

By SD (static difference) I mean like frame advantage/disadvantage. I'm wondering how many minus frames Noel has after throw cancelling each of those normals.

[MiraclePizza]

Throw animation lasts 23f so just take the blockstun of the moves (you can find the attack levels in the frame data) and subtract by 23.

If for whatever reason you don't feel like doing it by move level you can also take the Actives Frames and Recovery of the move from the frame data and subtract their sum by 23. Add the result to the existing SD and you should get the same results that you're looking for.