BBCS2 FINAL SHOWDOWN: Loketest 5, Nov. 15th Discussion

[rei-Scarred]

also iirc zidane has personally "beaten" dacid twice. once at cf and once at seasons beatings sooooooooooo.

Oh man this made me so happy for some reason.

And whoever banned Shikada is my new favorite mod.

On topic: Tao having same move proration on her drive makes less sense to me than anything else I've seen so far. That's gotta be misinterpreted.

[eirei]

Instant Block: down to 2-3 frames less of recovery instead of 5.

The Jin 6A thing was done earlier stop trying to incorrectly fix it.

不可 is short for 不可能, Noel's throw is uncancelable.

Hakumen

+ j2A has more untech frames.

- jC has less untech frames.

Hazama

- Ouroboros has same-move proration.

Regarding Litchi: "I take that back. Litchi is still really strong."

Edited November 18, 2010 by eirei

[rei-Scarred]

Hazama

- Ouroboros has same-move proration.

Almost as strange as DE same move proration but not nearly as detrimental to the character.

[Lord Knight]

That's going to destroy Tao hitconfirm

[FlyingVe]

Instant Block: down to 2-3 frames less of recovery instead of 5.

Oh thank you! IBing was way to much reward for how big the window was. I'm glad to see they're nerfing this one. This will also help mixup and pressure across the board, Tager's Bsledge will be even on IB, get scared (a little).

[DaiAndOh]

Instant Block: down to 2-3 frames less of recovery instead of 5.

The Jin 6A thing was done earlier stop trying to incorrectly fix it.

不可 is short for 不可能, Noel's throw is uncancelable.

Hakumen

- j2A has more untech frames.

+ jC has less untech frames.

Hazama

- Ouroboros has same-move proration.

Regarding Litchi: "I take that back. Litchi is still really strong."

WTF?

First air unblockable normals, now ib nerfing.

Next they're gonna say the horrible tech/roll system is gone!

[Bolverk-GTM]

Noel's throw is uncancelable.

Aww balls. I'm going to miss tagging online players with 6C into purple throw into Fenrir. It was one of those things that never got old.

If this whole 4k mashing damage mid-screen thing turns out to be true and it's actually 22B[xN], I'm going to laugh hysterically and become the best M. Bison Noel ever when CS2 rolls around.

[Andarel]

Instant Block: down to 2-3 frames less of recovery instead of 5.

...what? Well, if they wanted to weaken defensive options and strengthen blockstrings...I can't see this change being a bad thing. It's like ASW is making good changes or something.

Hakumen

- j2A has more untech frames.

+ jC has less untech frames.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but aren't more untech frames a good thing? Or am I missing what they mean by it.

[Spirit Juice]

IB nerf sounds great. Glad they finally nerfed it in some way, although I would have preferred they nerfed the window instead of the advantage you get from it.

[eirei]

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but aren't more untech frames a good thing? Or am I missing what they mean by it.

Stop pointing these things out right after I edit them

[FlyingVe]

@SpiritJuice: Nerfing the advantage has different ramifications though, like Tager's Bsledge being unpunishable on IB (for example). I think the logic is that, even if they made it harder to do, the power level would still be a problem.

[Andarel]

The window may have been nerfed too - that's harder to check. It's at 8 frames in CS1, right? No matter, good shit ASW.

I'm kind of amused by the fact that I can see combo damage decreased but games lasting less time anyways. I just wish hitlag (hitstop, whatever this community calls it) was slightly lowered.

In general, though, gotta say I'm hyped for CSII. Rachel and Tsubaki no longer crippled, Noel with better normals, Tager almost having functional blockstrings (weaker IB helps a lot with this), Lambda getting new toys, Jin having oki again, Bang and Litchi less autopilot (far as I can tell). Just gotta hope Tao throws aside her loketest wheelchair and grabs a Segway before the actual release.

Edited November 18, 2010 by Andarel

[Spirit Juice]

@SpiritJuice: Nerfing the advantage has different ramifications though, like Tager's Bsledge being unpunishable on IB (for example). I think the logic is that, even if they made it harder to do, the power level would still be a problem.

B sledge is +2 on normal block, meaning it's only -3 on IB and unpunishable by anything except 720. Either way, IB needed to be nerfed. It was either nerf the window to IB, nerf the advantage, or both. Glad they did something about it.

[ZONG_one]

IB nerf sounds great.

YES.

SJ the advantage was too good.

Any word on air IB?

Is it still like -10 fucking frames of recovery?

[soujiro seta]

Instant Block: down to 2-3 frames less of recovery instead of 5.

ARC THANK YOU.

[Remiri]

The change with IB certainly encourages a more in-your-face style of gameplay, i.e. in CvS2 K Groove Just-defense was certainly worth doing, but it didn't make you uber-afraid to do a blockstring in fear of IB+insta-reversal.

It was more about the meter gain and the slight block advantage.

[FlyingVe]

Bsledge is +3 and I meant to say even, not unpunishable.

My guess is that air IB is still double normal IB. So... 4-6?

[KayEff]

eirei, is it alright if you translate the two Belial Edge lines for Ragna? I want to see if the way I translated it is accurate or somewhere near.

[Spirit Juice]

I would imagine air IB got nerfed too... so yeah, probably what FlyingVe said.

Maybe ASW's idea on BB is to make it very new player friendly, and then slowly tune the game into something more solid so that it eases people in to the changes. Players that have been playing since CT would adapt pretty smoothly, and eventually, when we get the fourth BB game (if you count CS2 as the third), we'll have a real game!

Edited November 18, 2010 by Spirit Juice

[Skye]

This changes everything.

It does improve Arakune's ability to pressure however, and I can't complain about that. But for characters with tricky/unsafe moves into whatever, it sort of builds more commitment to using HF (just an example) in a block string and not having to worry about them Ibing it.

But I guess that just comes back to spacing and all that good shit.

[FlyingVe]

HF would still get raped on IB. That move is a terrible way to end a string.

[Remiri]

TBH I would prefer that they nerf the advantage and buff the meter gain. You really want to encourage IBing and with the heat stoppage time increase on moves over 25% heat it would be nice to see an alternative method to boost meter gain to compensate.

[Andarel]

This changes everything.

It does improve Arakune's ability to pressure however, and I can't complain about that. But for characters with tricky/unsafe moves into whatever, it sort of builds more commitment to using HF (just an example) in a block string and not having to worry about them Ibing it.

But I guess that just comes back to spacing and all that good shit.

Reading that, I'm not sure how that "but" is a bad thing. If you've got a tricky/unsafe move, it will still be unsafe. Slightly less unsafe, even. It makes solid aggressive tactics more viable, and gives the aggressor an extra few frames to set up a gimmick. Increasing the viability of gimmicky blockstrings is good, and it's even better when you look at how it works with an actually solid blockstring. And less dealing with things like lol5a. Basically, if you want to use Hell's Fang, go ahead and still get punished for it if it doesn't connect. Letting players use more moves in blockstrings = a good thing.

[Remiri]

You run the risk of nerfing defense too much, for example if the IB nerf was in CSI and Bang wished to keep you in blockstring with 4 Dnail resets he would be free to do so with impunity.

Basically my point is this is a good move as long as the tight blockstrings are not too long.

[Andarel]

If it's truly godawful and the blockstring is over 6 seconds, you'll be IBing all of it automatically and gaining heat like crazy anyways. It's got some worrying implications, particularly with Bang, but with some of his moves being slowed down I don't think it's a bad thing.