BBCS2 FINAL SHOWDOWN: Loketest 5, Nov. 15th Discussion

[Eshi]

same 2B > 5B change everyone else is getting... might actually be pretty useful for makoto though. I wonder if 5B will be fast enough to make it IB safe.

[LunaKage]

I'm guessing cancelling her throw into Muzzle Flitter (214A) either prorates a lot like you said or just doesn't work for some reason.

I doubt it's the latter though.

I heard they were making her throws have higher proration, so Grab > Command grab, is probably the highest prorated combo in her arsenal now. I'm thinking: B+C > 214A > 2B > 6C > j236C will probably be the best she can do, unless they tech after 2B which would make an easy tech trap.

[Silfer]

Tao's nerfs are getting seriously ridiculous....It seems they want her to be a more offensive character, but all signs point at her not doing too much dmg....I dont get their direction at all...

[HexaNoid]

B+C > slight delay > 214A > 2B > 6C > j.D > stuff might work if they tech in between that delay. Her command grab doesn't prorate as much so that could work and if they don't tech inbetween the gap and the command grab blue beats, we could just go into your combo instead.

Either way, more Noel nerfs.

Tao's nerfs are getting seriously ridiculous....It seems they want her to be a more offensive character, but all signs point at her not doing too much dmg....I dont get their direction at all...

Maybe Mori has a thing for her.

Edited November 18, 2010 by HexaNoid

[Eshi]

B+C > slight delay > 214A > 2B > 6C > j.D > stuff might work if they tech in between that delay. Her command grab doesn't prorate as much so that could and it they don't tech inbetween the gap and the command grab blue beats, we could just go into your combo instead.

Either way, more Noel nerfs.

There's no reason why a good opponent would ever fall for delaying 214A since there's no way to condition them to block high after a throw.

[LunaKage]

B+C > slight delay > 214A > 2B > 6C > j.D > stuff might work if they tech in between that delay. Her command grab doesn't prorate as much so that could and it they don't tech inbetween the gap and the command grab blue beats, we could just go into your combo instead.

Either way, more Noel nerfs.

I'm not too worried about this one, plus trying to trick your opponent to eat a command grab after teching normal grab is risky, this is america, they will either crouch and punish us, or be mashing 5A and hit us out of Muzzle Filter, though certain opponents may not catch us with 5A, now that I think about it this may be a half way decent strategy.

[HexaNoid]

There's no reason why a good opponent would ever fall for delaying 214A since there's no way to condition them to block high after a throw.

You mean like a good opponent would duck and not get hit by it? If so, then that doesn't work. The delay is just small enough so that the opponent can tech after you cancel the grab, but not long enough so that they can do anything. I've done it quite a few times before to reset my combos.

[zephyr07]

Jin

+ ☆6Aガードさせて有利。直ガで5分？

6A advantage on block. maybe about +5?

Noel

- ☆通常投げがキャンセル不可

cannot cancel from her throw

Taokaka

- ☆DEすべてに同技乗算付加

all DE moves have same-move proration

Arakune

- ☆JBの攻撃レベル減少

jB's attack level reduced

Carl

+ ☆ブリオが完全空ガ不可に戻る

Brio is back to being completely unblockable in air

Makoto

+ ☆2B＞5Bのガトリング追加（再度2Bは無理）

+ ☆デンプシーロールが空中受身不能に

2B>5B gattling added (cannot reinput 2B)

opponent cannot tech in air after getting hit by dempsey roll

[LunaKage]

Noel

- ☆通常投げがキャンセル不可

cannot cancel from her throw

If this is the case it's less of a nerf than I thought. It means no midscreen combos, but corner combos are still possible.

[HexaNoid]

If this is the case it's less of a nerf than I thought. It means no midscreen combos, but corner combos are still possible.

I can live with that. Her mid-screen throw combos weren't all that damaging in the first place.

[LunaKage]

I can live with that. Her mid-screen throw combos weren't all that damaging in the first place.

Since her throw is just uncancellable, that means proration isn't the issue at hand. If proration was the problem, then even corner combos off of her throw would be terrible, but since that's not the case, we can still get a good payoff in the corner.

[zephyr07]

Since her throw is just uncancellable, that means proration isn't the issue at hand. If proration was the problem, then even corner combos off of her throw would be terrible, but since that's not the case, we can still get a good payoff in the corner.

actually, the original translation maybe more correct, i.e it's inadvisable to cancel from her throw. I'm not sure whether ushi was using 不可　by itself or whether he was going with 不可能. depending on which one there's 2 different meanings. I'd stick with the original for now though. Ignore the bit about noel in my post till ushi updates his blog again.

[LunaKage]

actually, the original translation maybe more correct, i.e it's inadvisable to cancel from her throw. I'm not sure whether ushi was using 不可　by itself or whether he was going with 不可能. depending on which one there's 2 different meanings. I'd stick with the original for now though. Ignore the bit about noel in my post till ushi updates his blog again.

Gotcha, well there's still hope though, because as I said before, grab > command grab is 4 hits of proration hell, just one grab in the corner is still not as much proration, so I wont freak out just yet.

[HexaNoid]

Alright, thanks for that Zephyr. I'm hoping that the second translation is the correct one though. No damage off of throws mid-screen or in the corner doesn't sound that great to me.

[Eshi]

opponent cannot tech in air after getting hit by dempsey roll

awesome! I hope this means that makoto doesn't completely sacrifice her offense anymore if she ends with dempsey roll.

[LunaKage]

awesome! I hope this means that makoto doesn't completely sacrifice her offense anymore if she ends with dempsey roll.

Is that similar to how Lambda's 5C operates now? It will all combo on an airborne opponent?

[zephyr07]

Alright, thanks for that Zephyr. I'm hoping that the second translation is the correct one though. No damage off of throws mid-screen or in the corner doesn't sound that great to me.

alright, after reading ushi's blog thoroughly i'm sticking to my first guess, which is noel's throw cannot be canceled.

updates not in first post

Carl:

+ opponent cannot air tech after being hit by Cantabile

+ Brio wallbounces in corner, untech time after being wallbounced increased

[Eshi]

Is that similar to how Lambda's 5C operates now? It will all combo on an airborne opponent?

I interpret it as, if they get launched away by the last hit of dempsey roll, they can't air tech anymore. Which is potentially a huge buff since dempsey roll is her most damaging combo ender but there's zero reason to use it because it resets the situation to neutral, which completely screws makoto in most match-ups.

[LunaKage]

alright, after reading ushi's blog thoroughly i'm sticking to my first guess, which is noel's throw cannot be canceled.

Cool, updating Noel's thread.

The biggest bummer about this is no more 100 heat B+C > Thor > Fenrir combos. No more RAMBO COMBO ;-;

[HexaNoid]

The biggest bummer about this is no more 100 heat B+C > Thor > Fenrir combos. No more RAMBO COMBO ;-;

Oh shi- I forgot about that.

It's for the best, man.. Q.Q

[farranpoison]

I love these new Makoto buffs.

2B 5B gatling means added damage and possibly mixup since you can jc 5B.

No aerial tech after 214AC mash means oki and midscreen damage at the same time.

This is good news.

[Andarel]

Buffs that solidify Makoto's shaky mixup game in exchange for nerfs that screw with some of her gimmicky combos?

Whodathunkit.

Anyways, no aerial tech after 214A~CxN combined with better (How, exactly? Faster?) 214A~B will make 5C's options more interesting. Shame it's probably still easy to mash 5A her out of the dash...if it's fast enough to beat out mashers, though, then wow. Might be possible to do silly things like 6c 214A~B 6a, though not optimistic about that (6c 214A~C~A doesn't even come that close to connecting...). Any idea if 214A~C~A/B were changed at all?

[ZONG_one]

Carl

<3<3<3<3<3

[Bolverk-GTM]

The biggest bummer about this is no more 100 heat B+C > Thor > Fenrir combos. No more RAMBO COMBO ;-;

Bah, I never did get to learn those combos anyways because my PS3 turned into a boomer and blew up back in June and I still haven't fixed it. I was happy to at least get down my own made up combos off of 3C that did more damage than the old drive BnB and almost more than the basic Haida just by playing BBCS at Press Start Games and at my friend's house.

Noel

* Mashing midscreen into 4200 damage. Oh boy.

Just from MASHING? Yaaaaaaaay! I wonder how much damage the Drive BnB would do now. Noel mains, we still have the most basic CT Haida, am I right? WE GOT THIS BY THE BALLS! :D

Okay in a more civilized and analytic manner, let's look at it this way. Noel lost her big bad Rambo Combo, we all knew that a while ago, HOWEVER in exchange for the loss of the extensive Haida loops, she gets out more damage now and she has a fair share of slightly buffed/nerfed normals. In other words, combos are shorter, but do more damage. I see no problems here, I think she's actually better and obviously just a little bit easier to use. Boys and girls who main the useless one of the cast, I hope you all remember the most basic Haida because I sure do and it'll be time to start using it again when CS2 rolls around.

(I can't wait until a certain person who doesn't visit DustLoop finds out that the Rambo Combo is gone because it's the only thing they relied on, lololol)

[Manta]

Maybe noel mashing is:

3C 22BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB