[CS1] Iron Tager Evolution in the Loketests

[A.X.I.S.]

Voltech charge has auto guard.

I believe if your close enough 5B>2B>stuff will work if the 5B stuff's the jump out when your point blank..

[LeFartknocker]

Wow, I was pretty certain I was making Valkenhayn my primary but after hearing Tager's changes I'm not too certain, 2C>3C>RC>6A>2C>3C blockstring sounds pretty scary, did Bang go down to 5 primers like Haku did or is he still sitting at 6? if he went down too that means adding a Spark to the end of that combo could break anyone except another Tager, even without a burst, which is just delicious

[Andarel]

No characters except Tager have >5 Primers.

[Osuna]

Wow, I was pretty certain I was making Valkenhayn my primary but after hearing Tager's changes I'm not too certain, 2C>3C>RC>6A>2C>3C blockstring sounds pretty scary, did Bang go down to 5 primers like Haku did or is he still sitting at 6? if he went down too that means adding a Spark to the end of that combo could break anyone except another Tager, even without a burst, which is just delicious

You can barrier 2 primer breaks safely, if you had a good amount of barrier. You can't add a spark because 3C isn't special cancelable still, I think. So yeah, whether or not it really is awesome remains to be seen. I get the feeling that properly barrier blocking might just push you out of 2C range too, maybe a slight charge on 6A will prevent that? I dont know.

Using 50 meter, and a spark bolt to force the opponent to burst is kinda a bad trade anyway, but will probably be cool post burst? I feel like a lot of how tager will do hinges on how the 6A stuff works out in the end. I mean it looks cool, but it has some weak points that might turn it into one of those things that just piss off people who don't know the match up. So far in the videos I haven't seen a guard break both happen and result in a throw, but you never know this early in the game.

I know I'm a pessimist, but I think that pessimism has the better track record so far anyway.

[Manta]

I also saw the 5C 6A gatling on the video Axis posted. 6A, so awesome it deserves a proper move name.

[Isorropia]

The gatling is still there, however an uncharged 6A doesn't have the same magnetic pull it has in CS1. So, eg, if your back is to the corner and you hit a long range spark, in CS1 you can 5C>6A>collider and it's stable, but in CS2 the 6A will whiff. However it might be possible to slightly charge the 6A and get a little magnetic pull but still combo.....we'll have to see.

[Manta]

I assuming you mean 6A misses from a maximum range 5C. That said, can't you just do a slightly held 6A after spark bolt and get the collider that way. The 5C doesn't exactly add much damage. (Heck, the way Tager's wacked out proration works, it might actually improve the combo damage).

Is it me, or is 6A faster than CS1 when you don't charge it at all?

[LeFartknocker]

You can barrier 2 primer breaks safely, if you had a good amount of barrier. You can't add a spark because 3C isn't special cancelable still, I think. So yeah, whether or not it really is awesome remains to be seen. I get the feeling that properly barrier blocking might just push you out of 2C range too, maybe a slight charge on 6A will prevent that? I dont know.

Using 50 meter, and a spark bolt to force the opponent to burst is kinda a bad trade anyway, but will probably be cool post burst? I feel like a lot of how tager will do hinges on how the 6A stuff works out in the end. I mean it looks cool, but it has some weak points that might turn it into one of those things that just piss off people who don't know the match up. So far in the videos I haven't seen a guard break both happen and result in a throw, but you never know this early in the game.

I know I'm a pessimist, but I think that pessimism has the better track record so far anyway.

I'd forgotten you can't Spark from 3C Well more or less I didn't mean it was a goal, I'd rather use 50% heat for something else most of the time, but near the end of a round (especially on lower health opponents) Break>360B is an awfully scary thought, especially since at lower health they'll be more wary of throw set ups than "loltagerblockstring".

I've never had too much of a problem with barrier pushback thanks to magnetism, but with the changes made to magnetism who knows how that'll go... But hey, if they have to barrier to prevent breaking let 'em, then say hello to the Danger state

All things considered, this IS Tager, and this IS BlazBlue, so everyone is probably just being lulzy with all the changes going around, but I actually like a lot of the changes their making in CS2 (not just to Tager, I like what they're doing with pretty much everyone I play with) so I'm a little hyped <.<

Edited December 13, 2010 by LeFartknocker

[Osuna]

I assuming you mean 6A misses from a maximum range 5C. That said, can't you just do a slightly held 6A after spark bolt and get the collider that way. The 5C doesn't exactly add much damage. (Heck, the way Tager's wacked out proration works, it might actually improve the combo damage).

Is it me, or is 6A faster than CS1 when you don't charge it at all?

It's the 6A that doesn't add damage, not the 5C. unless they changed a lot more proration than I've seen reported, you'll want to go straight to collider for maximum damage/options. So I think it is very likely a moot point. I'm sure the difference was mentioned because it meant that 6A's naked pull was weaker, which is good to be aware of.

6A's speed boost is real, it is almost common knowledge now.

Edited December 13, 2010 by Osuna

[A.X.I.S.]

I looked in the jbbs awhile ago and they were talking about canceling XYH with 720 and what to do with it.

I guess it made it into the game.

I'll have to sort through the jbbs for the link though.

[Isorropia]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gl_jRcRvA64#t=0m17s

Combo from forward throw with magnetism, no spark required.

[Manta]

Whilst that's useful to know, it makes me wonder why, when you need magnetism to do that, would you ever not use the back throw instead for more up-front damage and non-magnetised combo damage. There's got to be some reason.

[Osuna]

Whilst that's useful to know, it makes me wonder why, when you need magnetism to do that, would you ever not use the back throw instead for more up-front damage and non-magnetised combo damage. There's got to be some reason.

Unless it was changed from CS1 front throw is faster than back throw.

[Manta]

By a singular frame.

[Isorropia]

At the moment we still haven't seen optimal damage combos for both back throw and forward throw, I think it's fair to wait until then to determine which is better. From the vid I linked, the combo he did wasn't optimal, but appeared to be around 3k. Most backthrow combos I'm seeing so far are around 2.3k.

[DJ Koopa]

You think it could be possible to chase the throw with a super jump and possibly j.C>j.B>j.C into ground combo with it? Kinda hard to tell just by looking at it once, plus the AC affecting the trajectory immediately after.

[Isorropia]

Nah, there's no way j.C will connect with them, they're flying too far. It might be possible in the corner, but even then I'm not convinced it would be the best option damage wise.

[Osuna]

By a singular frame.

or by 17%. It makes a difference. Or at least it used to. Generally speaking fast short range moves being one frame slower or faster isn't negligible. There's a pretty big difference between 5A's that are 1 frame slower or faster. 360B being 2 frames faster was a pretty big deal. There were a few places where a back throw would not work. and there very well could be some in CS2.

On the other hand, not everything developers put in a game is actually useful when the dust settles.

[Manta]

Yeah, but it does seem like you're giving up a lot of damage for that one frame. Especially without magnetism. Unless backthrow prorates like a bitch and forward doesn't of course.

Has anyone seen how early the opponent can tech from the forward throw? If it's bounce tech only, you might be able to get a 236B in there to follow up with.

[Manta]

Double post, but I just realised I was reading a mistake on the new damage properties:

Forward throw does 1900, but needs magnetism, corner or Bolt to follow up. Back throw does 1200 but requires none of these things to follow up with.

[A.X.I.S.]

light combos, forgot accurate damage blah blah blah

5A→5B→3C→2B→2C→collider→low J2C→gadget 1900

something about timing correction

3C→2B→2C→collider→JB route 2800

6A→2C→collider→JB route 3000

can 2x collider, with 5C starter 3800, without 6A starter over 4000

A busta→gadget 2800

A busta→2B→collider 3400

B busta→2B→(2C)→collider→low J2C→gadget 4800

mentioned above JB route can lead to collider→6B if magnetized or to collider→6C→J2C route if starter 2C FC

throw starter

midscreen - spark→collier→gadget

corner - various options, can do 2x collider

4B+C→5C→collider→safe tighting

higher B busta damage

B buster→2B→collider→collider(tighting)→6B→2C→collider→spark→wheel→break 6500

much mash but easy to understand

Here's something to look at.

[Nobus3r1]

Q: Is it safe to assume that EGadget and BGadget are still more or less interchangeable?

[McQuinn]

That's a meaty B driver combo

Any clue if 5D and j.D tech traps still work now that magnetism pull is weaker?

[g0th1k4]

5A→5B→3C→2B→2C→collider→low J2C→gadget 1900

Not sure if mentioned but that combo can now start with j.B and still end with a gadget, resulting in a 10 hit combo where as in CS it would blue beat

[GZ-Matthias]

Q: Is it safe to assume that EGadget and BGadget are still more or less interchangeable?

No because BGadget does not connect on the entire cast such as with Carl and Arakune. Unless this changed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRnDCZwr9EI#t=4m05s

4:08 2D goes RIGHT UNDER her staff? Could we always do that? If not, what changed? Her attack's hit box, or Tager's hit box during 2D? I could have swore you'd get CH out of 2D in CS1.