[CS2/EX] Hakumen Info and Discussion

[rtl42]

well, might as well write out the rest of Mugen's properties:

• invul frames 1-26
  
• 0F cooldown
  
• attacks does 1.2 times more damage (no effect on untechable time)
  
• after using 9 stars' worth of specials/supers, gauge consumption rate triples
  
• Mugen ends upon using Shippuu
  
• max duration is 1079F
  
• after Mugen ends, automatic magatama gain is suspended for the following 600F

[Manta]

well, might as well write out the rest of Mugen's properties:

• invul frames 1-26
  
• 0F cooldown
  
• attacks does 1.2 times more damage (no effect on untechable time)
  
• after using 9 stars' worth of specials/supers, gauge consumption rate triples
  
• Mugen ends upon using Shippuu
  
• max duration is 1079F
  
• after Mugen ends, automatic magatama gain is suspended for the following 600F

Wow, Talk about getting the Dragon install treatment in AC. Seems like you either win with it or you're totally fucked for the rest of the round.

[Re4L14124c]

seriously. no heat for 10 seconds is horrible. Though I guess from the beginning Mugen has always been a showboat move anyways.

[rtl42]

well, there are 60F per second, which means that you lose auto tension gain for 5 seconds, so it's bad, but i still wouldn't say "totally fucked". i don't think it means you gain 0 tension from hitting or being hit, for example.

edit: wait is BB 30F/s ??? seriously?!

edit2: giant math fail, way to stay up late, me.

Edited April 1, 2011 by rtl42

[Manta]

600/60 = 10. Yeah, so it's ten seconds of no auto gain. Better hope you're handy with your D button to earn your stars back that way.

[mAc Chaos]

Frame 1 invulnerability and 0 frames of cooldown... does that mean it could be used as a reversal?

[WolfCrimson]

'Cooldown' isn't recovery, it's temporary drastically decreased heat gain . So a distortion drive with 180 frames of cooldown means that after using that DD, your heat gain gets murdered for 3 secs.

[GNkyrios]

i was trying the new combos and challenge, challenge 6 was kind of hard, 2b, 2a, 5a, 5b, gurren, 3c, everything but 5b>gurren needs precise timing, and the new corner combo was easier than i thought with the new input for renka, also even when u can do less damage from a hotaru fatal now, it looks better and u have some corner carry :P (hop hotaru, land, IAD, falling j2c, 2c...and the rest of the bnb), but i love the new 5D, and cancelable 4C

[zreb]

I did find linking those normals together before gurren to feel pretty weird (thoguh, read: PSP D-pad), but I wouldn't say it was hard. Advanced input makes it simpler.

The corner combo they list isn't really the best, which seems to be a trend for most characters' challenge modes.

The new hotaru combos are anime as fuck. :p It's scarier in the corner, from what I can gather. Gameplay implications aside, I really love all the ridiculous blowaway/launching several of various characters on the roster's attacks have now.

@New Mugen: I still feel like it has way too many strings attached. :\ It has enormous recovery, opponent can play keep away if you use it outside of combos at an otherwise safe distance, and then if that works out for them, they get 600 frames of meterless haku. The duration boost when you haven't done anything is nice, but at the same time even if you get an opening after 500 frames you've lost half your meter and when you spend 9 stars it's going to evaporate rapidly.

At the same time, buffing it could easily make it too good, so I dunno.

Edited March 31, 2011 by zreb

[kotokot]

i dont think using mugen as reversal is good idea, because it is 26+23F, maybe it usable after throw in corner.

[Re4L14124c]

I'm just glad Hakumen has new combos; sounds weird, but playing with the same shit gets boring quick.

[psycofang2]

I'm just glad Hakumen has new combos; sounds weird, but playing with the same shit gets boring quick.

thats actually quite normal, i too am glad as well, though for beginner hakus it seems the bar for his combos went from plain old linear sair case timing to somewat higher bar quick input timings along with stair cases weirdness involved. i worry for the beginners.

[zreb]

Haku's actually good bnbs are already difficult for beginners. We'd probably have more beginners floating around here already if haku was a good beginner character. :p

[Ronin Jinobi]

Haku's actually good bnbs are already difficult for beginners. We'd probably have more beginners floating around here already if haku was a good beginner character. :p

in a nutshell yes. But hakumen is usually the go to character for people transitioning from a defense oriented game like ssf4(at least that's what I've noticed)

but a more on topic post, haku's new bnb's are actually pretty flashy/nifty well the midscreen iad j.2C ones i mean. I'm looking forward to when I actually have more time to play it on a reliable version though ~_~

[itsme]

Mission 10:

-Lv.3 6C 214214b 236b(1) 41236c(1) 623a x4, 236b(1) 41236c(2) 632146c (costs 8 stars, 10365 damage)

About the mugen combo: By the last zantetsu, it's 6800 ish damage. Using shippu seems to have near 100% guaranteed damage but ends mugen state. Dunno if that's news or not! I didn't know it, but I haven't been aggressively keeping up or anything.

It's not as fun to watch as CS1 Mission 10.

Thanks for the info. I really wanted to know if Shippu really did do that much as an ender in Mugen because of after seeing one video of a Haku doing decent damage after Mugen activation and he surprised everybody with the sudden HUGE damage slapped on at the end. Also, Hakumen's CS1 Challenge 10 felt really redundant to me after the hilarity of Tsubakicoptr.

[Schneider-X]

Does Tsubaki still do the ground slide in mugen state? I remember reading somewhere in the loctest threads that it changed to CS1 Tsubaki during mugen.

[rtl42]

there's no indication in the frame data that Tsubaki doesn't cause ground slide during Mugen, but maybe someone can try that out and verify it.

[GNkyrios]

it does slide on mugen

btw i was messing around in training, and did a combo off hotaru FC mid screen that goes like this.

FC hotaru, IAD, j2c, 5c, renka(1), kishu, 6c, 66, 2c, hj2a, j2c, 2c, j2a, j2c, 2c, hj2a, IAD, j2A, jc, 5c, 3c 6175 damage 5 magnamata.

*updated

Edited April 2, 2011 by GNkyrios

[Sophisticat]

thats actually quite normal, i too am glad as well, though for beginner hakus it seems the bar for his combos went from plain old linear sair case timing to somewat higher bar quick input timings along with stair cases weirdness involved. i worry for the beginners.

The one thing I like most about the new combos is that they're more practical for breaking the 5k dmg barrier.

In CS1 you have to rely on 5c/2c links to optimally reach 5k. But now Haku can do that midscreen with the mid-combo Hotaru variation if it leads into the corner. Very sweet.

On the other hand, there are more dashes in his combos now which is very frustrating as a pad player who uses the analog stick (Ps3). I think all fighting games should incorporate the very useful two-button dash mechanic from MvC3. It would be a godsend.

[Re4L14124c]

i worry for the beginners.

Yeah, some of the timing does look weird, but if it's flashy and "cool" I'm sure some people will try to learn him anyways, just bacause.

Oh, wow, Sophisticat, you use the analog too? Yeah, dashing on analog is kind of messy, but meh, gotta get used to some things.

Oh, since I get the chance to ask, what's your input for 2C -> sj.2A? I've tried several but none of them works that well.

[zreb]

I don't play pad/analog, but I just go 1c5191a--in theory. It's much sloppier looking in practice, but there's no accidental inputs you can do in that motion. The big thing is just letting go as soon as i start the input for 2c and not waiting (other than making sure you reset to 5 before you try to do the super jump or it won't come out.)

There's lots of wrist flicking involved there, so I imagine that's a lot more nauseating on analog.

[Sophisticat]

I input it like zreb does with the exception that I think of each move as distinct from the other.

So instead of going "1C5191A", I think "2c -> back to neutral -> sj.2a". I input the 2c normally, then once I'm back at neutral I input sj.2a as fast as possible. Makes it smoother to me than thinking of it all as one piece.

[zdravkelja]

Haku ended better than I expected in the end. He can still deal very good damage, even midscreen. The only thing i'm not sure, can he connect tk.Hotaru iad j.2C>2C...etc on normal hit? Anyone tested it?

[kotokot]

Haku ended better than I expected in the end. He can still deal very good damage, even midscreen. The only thing i'm not sure, can he connect tk.Hotaru iad j.2C>2C...etc on normal hit? Anyone tested it?

afaik no. But on wallbounce on normal hit you can do whatever you want.

[zdravkelja]

I was sure I saw it somewhere and finnaly found it. Here it is, at 20s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WMO2LhU-2s

2C>tk.Hotaru