Mucky Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 LK: When I'm playing my main (Tager), most of the time my defense is mediocre. I eat overheads, don't tech green throws, etc. Later I might pick a character who I have no idea how to play (usually Jin). Suddenly I'm blocking everything almost perfectly, and I might even do something like IB > DP out of pressure. Then I go back to my main and once again I can't block worth a damn. Can you explain why this happens? I can block well as my main, it's just inconsistent. I feel like I get lazy playing as my main, and picking a character I know nothing about keeps me on my toes. So I guess my question is, how can I make this more consistent?
Lord Knight Posted February 1, 2011 Author Posted February 1, 2011 LK: When I'm playing my main (Tager), most of the time my defense is mediocre. I eat overheads, don't tech green throws, etc. Later I might pick a character who I have no idea how to play (usually Jin). Suddenly I'm blocking everything almost perfectly, and I might even do something like IB > DP out of pressure. Then I go back to my main and once again I can't block worth a damn. Can you explain why this happens? I can block well as my main, it's just inconsistent. I feel like I get lazy playing as my main, and picking a character I know nothing about keeps me on my toes. So I guess my question is, how can I make this more consistent? Keep in mind Tager's vulnerable to instant overheads, so you aren't totally at fault. But really, blocking doesn't change when you switch to a different character. It's all about focus. If you play Tager more than Jin, you may also just recognize more when you get hit. Of course, just playing more will get your defense up.
Mucky Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 I guess the problem I was getting at is focus. Talking about it probably doesn't help much, it's just something I've noticed in my gameplay. With Jin I feel like I actually have options so I'm actively thinking, whereas with Tager I'm prone to just gluing my thumb to downback until I'm dead or the timer runs out. Maybe I should play Jin instead?
The Katz Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 (edited) Why would you intentionally cripple yourself if you want to win? I'd sig that, but the one I have right now is good enough. I understand the unlikeliness of winning with a low-tier character, especially when a match-up can get pretty one-sided sometimes. There are also some things that can't just be overcome with spirit, determination, and hard work. It's just an illogical choice a number of players make, expecting their work to pay off... Edited February 1, 2011 by The Katz
KayEff Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 I eat overheads, don't tech green throws, etc. story of my fucking life
Dacidbro Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 Welp, never mind. I was going to have so much fun breaking that bad news to you, but I guess it's more appropriate that LK did anyway Top players very often tier whore.
Jake D Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 Top playersHere is one for you LK. What is a "Top player" and who do you sign a contract with to become one?
Dacidbro Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 I don't have any slight difficulty calling Tokido a "Top player", as I think he easily fits the bill for it in one or another game by ANYONE'S standards.
TITANIUM BEAST!!! Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 Generally speaking, as a player gets better at the game and begins to recognize how matches flow, they may gravitate towards stronger characters. Not necessarily to tier whore, but to make the most of their abilities. When you get your fundamentals down and you really start to "get" the game, you tend to get tired of losing matches because of the inadequacies of the character you pick.
Fallacy Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 Generally speaking, as a player gets better at the game and begins to recognize how matches flow, they may gravitate towards stronger characters. Not necessarily to tier whore, but to make the most of their abilities. When you get your fundamentals down and you really start to "get" the game, you tend to get tired of losing matches because of the inadequacies of the character you pick. True though normally my love for a character is greater than my frustration at their faults. My character is more than the sum of its matchups =p
Jake D Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 they may gravitate towards stronger characters. Not necessarily to tier whore, but to make the most of their abilities. lol that explains alot
Rhiya Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 True though normally my love for a character is greater than my frustration at their faults. My character is more than the sum of its matchups =p >Tsubaki main ;_; I feel your pain. Tsu being playable in CS2 will make my life so much better.
atdsutm Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 Why would you intentionally cripple yourself if you want to win? this post has owned every tier whore haters. try proving that tier whoring will never make a player good by stealing tokido's money at every american Blazblue tourney, proving that he is a bad player.
tastylumpia Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 I'm surprised that it's even a question if Tokido tier whores. Every game I've seen him play (he plays MANY) he automatically goes for the dumbest, easiest top tier BS character/tactic available. DL always goes on about how he wins at BB because he has these mythical "fundamentals" but to me it seems like yes, he does have great basics, but ultimately he wins because he's an expert at finding and exploiting the cheapest fucking shit in every game he finds, whether it be 3S Urien unblockables (then whoring out Chun pokes, when he realized Urien wasn't that great), ST Claw wall dive loop (the most brain dead mixup ever) or SF4 Akuma vortex and ambiguous/unblockable crossups. Which goes to my question, LK (or any other multi-game player), do you see any commonalities in what makes a character top tier in their respective game? Is it usually something like good pokes, great mixup, damage output, some gimmick they can exploit the system with, or a combination of these? I've been wondering this because I've heard Viscant from SRK say that a game's top tier is a reflection of that game's underlying principles or mechanics, what the game is really "about". I may not necessarily agree with that. Your thoughts?
Nini Heart Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 There are no unblockable crossups in SF4 nigga what you talkin bout.
tastylumpia Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 There are no unblockable crossups in SF4 nigga what you talkin bout. http://shoryuken.com/content/akuma-unblockable-glitch-setup-demo-video-explanation-2596/
Nini Heart Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 http://shoryuken.com/content/akuma-unblockable-glitch-setup-demo-video-explanation-2596/ There are no unblockable crossups in SF4 nigga what you talkin bout. Always knew niggas had trouble reading. And if you had actually watched the videos, there's a way to block(not DP or get out of the corner or something. You can BLOCK it) the fucken setup, making it not unblockable I guess? But yah keep pretending Tokido abuses game breaking tactics and the easiest top tier characters available to win. As if Akuma's top tier in SSF4 lol.
tastylumpia Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 (edited) I was referring to the SF4 series in general. Yes, I can read and I know all about the setup. I went to school with Richard Nguyen (creator of the video) and played casuals with him before. There's convoluted methods to escape it, but it still fits the criteria of an unblockable (which doesn't mean the same as inescapable). As for Tokido, he's been using Akuma since vanilla up to AE as far as I'm aware. http://iplaywinner.com/news/2011/1/5/super-street-fighter-4-tier-list-january-2011.html Akuma has always been one of the top characters in the SF4 series, really only his very bad health is what holds him back. According to Tokido, once he gets the untechable knockdown he's practically the best character in the game, lol. I'm not hating on him at all, he does what he needs to do to win. I'm just pointing out a trend in his gameplay. Anyone who plays ST knows how brain dead the Claw dive loop is. Doesn't mean Tokido is braindead, if anything, it means he's smart for using (and abusing) such a powerful tactic. Edited February 1, 2011 by tastylumpia
Nini Heart Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 Aight. Your first post sounds hella bitter though, it was hard to tell you weren't hating on him. You almost made it sound as if he wins cause of the character and not because he himself is good.
tastylumpia Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 (edited) I probably should've been clearer. I have no problem with playing lame or exploiting tactics. I love broken shit, MvC2 is my favorite game. My point wasn't that he isn't good, it was that what he IS good at (on top of solid fundamentals) is finding and using whatever the strongest tactic or character in whatever games he plays to their fullest effect. Some players will gravitate to certain characters because they like their playstyle or aesthetic design or whatever. Tokido seems to have played so many games he will simply say "This character is top, I will use him" then play that character in a way that maximizes his chances of winning. Seems like a formula for success to me. Edited February 1, 2011 by tastylumpia
Romeyurhomey Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 LK I have a question about MBAA, My Friend and I are actually trying to get serious with it and we both use Kohaku, and Red Alrucard.. What's the best the setup/gimmicks them?
Lord Knight Posted February 1, 2011 Author Posted February 1, 2011 I guess the problem I was getting at is focus. Talking about it probably doesn't help much, it's just something I've noticed in my gameplay. With Jin I feel like I actually have options so I'm actively thinking, whereas with Tager I'm prone to just gluing my thumb to downback until I'm dead or the timer runs out. Maybe I should play Jin instead? Play whoever you want. You might want to consider that you aren't actively taking advantage of all of Tager's options (they do exist!). Here is one for you LK. What is a "Top player" and who do you sign a contract with to become one? Troll question? But this one should be obvious, right? I'm surprised that it's even a question if Tokido tier whores. Every game I've seen him play (he plays MANY) he automatically goes for the dumbest, easiest top tier BS character/tactic available. DL always goes on about how he wins at BB because he has these mythical "fundamentals" but to me it seems like yes, he does have great basics, but ultimately he wins because he's an expert at finding and exploiting the cheapest fucking shit in every game he finds, whether it be 3S Urien unblockables (then whoring out Chun pokes, when he realized Urien wasn't that great), ST Claw wall dive loop (the most brain dead mixup ever) or SF4 Akuma vortex and ambiguous/unblockable crossups. Which goes to my question, LK (or any other multi-game player), do you see any commonalities in what makes a character top tier in their respective game? Is it usually something like good pokes, great mixup, damage output, some gimmick they can exploit the system with, or a combination of these? I've been wondering this because I've heard Viscant from SRK say that a game's top tier is a reflection of that game's underlying principles or mechanics, what the game is really "about". I may not necessarily agree with that. Your thoughts? I watched that dogface episode (that's where you heard it from, right?), and I thought it was a pretty interesting statement. I do think a game's top tier is a reflection of what's the game is "about", and it's never just a single thing. Myself, when trying to pick a character, I go for strong neutral, strong mixup, strong pressure, high damage, good looking characters. These are (minus the good looking part ) the components that make a strong, top 5 character, for sure. The most dominant characters reflect what the strongest tactics are if the game is fair, or how retarded the game is if it's unfair. Take MBAA. MBAA vanilla god tier was H-Aoko, H-Tohno, H-Akiha, C-Mech, C-Koha, C-Ciel. The H characters had unfair damage, instant health regen when they got max heat, and retarded mixup. C-Koha showed why MB needs to have crossup protection forever, C-Ciel broke the game (literally had to restart the cabinet) and C-Mech had a 17-rep death loop. MBAA ver A top tier was H-Koha, H-Vshi, H-Tohno, C-Mech. H mechanics were still too strong and damage output was too high. Mech doesn't belong in an MB game, and it shows by her dominating the cast. This top tier stayed in console. What this shows is how strong rushdown and zoning can be in MB (A+ tier including Nero and Ciel supplement this). Of course if we used BBCT as an example, the top 3 were high damage, high mobility zoners that controlled the full screen, followed by a character that abused a system to kill you (Carl). Though I think it's a bit harder for other games, SF is probably the easiest to "describe" just based on the top characters. LK I have a question about MBAA, My Friend and I are actually trying to get serious with it and we both use Kohaku, and Red Alrucard.. What's the best the setup/gimmicks them? Start by picking a moon and heading over to mbaa.mizuumi.net. The wiki is extremely indepth. Gimmicks will not help you in MB.
natearistata Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 If you were having trouble being mobile, how would you go about fixing it? I'm trying to switch away from Tager, and my largest problem is that I still kind of move like I'm Tager regardless of who I play (plus I still super jump C every once in a while <_<) Another issue is that I can't seem to dash consistently, despite feeling like I input the same speed when it does come out and when it doesn't, which is part of my mobility problem.
NoNouf Posted February 2, 2011 Posted February 2, 2011 Is there any way to safe jump inferno dividers playing Hakumen ? Actually, how does landing recovery work in this game ?
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