[CS2] Tsubaki Tutorial Video

[BatousaiJ]

My wording can be better I believe so if you and Ginseng would like to edit it to be more concise and to the point or just plainly easier to understand, feel free to do so.

[Airk]

So I see that we still have several whole sections essentially empty (i.e. the entire "strategy" section), so I thought I'd take a stab at one of the easier ones - namely, mixup. This may be too verbose. I don't freaking know. I wrote it in a way I felt would be helpful for beginners, because advanced players can probably figure this stuff out without my help. :P

Mixups:

Tsubaki's high-low mixup is pretty weak, as her overhead is one of the slowest in the game, so many opponents can block it on reaction. Conditioning is critical here. Your primary "mixup points" in your blockstrings are during jab spam (Usually 2A, which gatlings to anything), after 5B (Gatling to 2B or 6A), 5BB (The same) or 2B (Gatling to 2BB or 6A). Once you move beyond that point in her blockstrings, you lose the option to quickly integrate a high into your blockstrings, though you may be able to catch an opponent off guard by charge cancelling 5C or 5CC and then going for the overhead (Especially if you use 6B heavily after these attacks), this is more risky than an actual gatling. Of additional mild use in the high/low game is j.CC - which can catch people who reflexively go into a crouch block after blocking j.C.

In order to make up for your relatively weak high-low game, Tsubaki has a couple of other tools - she has a fairly decent kara throw, done by pressing 6C and then B immediately thereafter (while still holding C). This causes Tsubaki to lunge forwards and start the animation for her 6C attack, but then interrupt it, before the attack comes out, with a throw. This has the effect of extending the range of her throw noticeably. This can be used to catch your opponent off guard. Mixing in throws erratically in your pressure strings will require opponents to be alert for them. Remember, however, that you can't follow up a throw outside the corner unless you have at least one charge available.

The other tool in Tusbaki's mixup game is 22D - when held down until it releases on its own, this attack becomes unblockable, and is an excellent starter for combos, though to do so outside of the corner will require a second charge for 236D. Visually, this attack is difficult to tell apart from 22C, and both 22C and uncharged 22D leave you at advantage on block, so it generally advantageous to mix uncharged or partly charged versions of these moves into pressure strings in order to make an opponent accustomed to blocking them, so that they won't recognize a fully charged 22D until it is too late to evade. Using 22C also adds pressure because this move breaks a guard primer.

***

That leaves the "pressure" section, which I sadly feel completely unqualified to write about, other than saying "Well, uh, you have these moves that are plus on block" which only barely scratches the tip of the iceberg. Do we have an easy frame trap to catch jumpouts? The "okizeme" section seems likely to be short - Tsubaki doesn't have many good options here, I think, but it's worth mentioning the epic 6A->22D reset, and well, anything that does a good job stopping rolls. (I used to use 3C for this, but it seems like a bad idea now. 5B stuffs forward rolls though?) Misc tips and tricks is totally going to have to be done by an expert.

Edited May 11, 2011 by Airk

[pktazn]

That's a nice write-up Airk thanks, but it's a bit too verbose. If you don't mind, I'd like to just take out the key data from it so that it's summarized quickly for the first posts. I think it would probably be better placed in one of the guides rather than a somewhat quick tutorial video.

[Rhiya]

If 5bb can still be delayed, that should rape jump.

Hell, any ground normal frametrap should rape jump, since everything is air unblockable. >_>

[Airk]

If 5bb can still be delayed, that should rape jump.

Hell, any ground normal frametrap should rape jump, since everything is air unblockable. >_>

Looks like all the followups have a five frame window, so it's definitely possible. Good thought!

And please feel free to do whatever with my writeup. It's here to be used.

Edited May 12, 2011 by Airk

[BatousaiJ]

I was hoping to finish the combo compilation on CS 2 on consoles so I get some practice on the pad instead of the PSP but we all know how that's turned out.

*shakes fist at the general direction of arcsys headquarters*

Anyhow, continuing...

22D combo-

Anywhere

(vs Rachel, Tager, Valk only) 22D > 236C > 214B > 22B [1770 damage, 10 meter gain]

(vs Everyone else) 22D > think about how 22D used to wall bounce anywhere > Cry [900 damage, 3 meter gain, 40 sadness gain]

Corner

22D > 5D tap > 5CC(first hit whiff) >2CC > IAD j.CC > 5B > 2CC > 22C > 5C > 2C > 236C > 214B > 22B [3679 damage, 36 meter gain]

22D > 5D tap > 6CC > hjc j.B j.C > jc j.CC > 236A > 214C [3321 damage, 23 meter gain]

22D, 2 charge combo-

Anywhere (does not work with back furthest to the corner, 236D will not connect)

22D > 236D > dash 5B > 2CC > IAD j.CC > 5B > 2CC > 236C > 214B > 22B [3625 damage, 31 meter gain](full screen carry)

22D > 236D > dash 5B > 2CC > 5CC > hjc j.B j.C > jc j.CC > 236A > 214C [3516 damage, 27 meter gain]

Corner

22D > 6CC > j.214D > 5CC(whiff first hit) > 2CC > IAD j.CC > 5B > 2CC > 22C > 5C > 2C > 236B > 214B > 22B [4719 damage, 47 meter gain]

22D > 6CC > jc j.C > j.CC > j.236A > j.214D > 5CC(whiff first hit) > 2CC > 22C > dash 5C > 2C > 236B > 214B > 22B [4415 damage, 45 meter gain]

22D, 3 charge combo-

Anywhere

22D > 236D > dash 5C > 2C > 214D > 2CC > IAD j.CC > 5B > 2CC > 236C > 214B > 22B [4197 damage, 37 meter gain](positional change opportunity after 214D)

3 charge corner combos add very little benefits from what I've seen so far so none listed for that for now.

Finally coming to the final stretch- going to cover Mugen combo and one more normal starter and I should be done with BnB.

Let me know if you think I've missed anything very important so far.

to be continued...

Edited May 13, 2011 by BatousaiJ

[BatousaiJ]

Did some thinking and I realized that listing Mugen combos would take forever since there's so many ways to start it so... make your own, you bums!

Forgot to do throw BnB though, so here we go.

Note : Back throw and front throw do the same damage and share the same kind of properties but you recover from using a back throw quicker than front, allowing you to do character specific follow up mid-screen with no charge as well as activate Mugen and go for a follow up after a back throw anywhere on the screen.

Back throw-

Anywhere

(Vs Rachel, Tager, Valk only)Backthrow > 236C > 214B > 22B [1508 damage, 10 meter gain]

From this point the throws can be switched without any consequence .

Corner

Throw > dash 2B > 2CC > 22C > 5C > 2C > 236C > 214B > 22B [2159 damage, 25 meter gain]

Throw > 6CC > hjc j.B j.C > jc j.CC > j.236A > j.214C [2411 damage, 23 meter gain]

Throw starter, 1 charge

Anywhere

Throw > 236D > dash 5B > 2CC > 236B > 214B > 22B [2176 damage, 20 meter gain]

Throw > 236D > dash 5B > 2CC > jc j.C > jc j.CC > j.236A > j.214C [2362 damage, 23 meter gain]

Corner

Throw > 6CC > jc j.C > j.214D > 5CC (whiff first hit) > 2CC > 22C > dash 5C > 2C > 236C > 214B > 22B [3015 damage, 39 meter gain]

Throw > 6C > 22D > 5D charge(9/10th of one charge) > 2B > 2CC > 22C > 5C > 2C > 236C > 214B > 22B [2676 damage, 33 meter gain]

Throw, 2 charge-

Anywhere

Throw > 236D > dash 5C > 2C > 214D > 5C > 2CC > 236B > 214B > 22B [2688 damage, 29 meter gain]

Throw > 236D > dash 5C > 2C > 214D > 5C > 2CC > hjc j.C > jc j.CC > j.236A > j.214C [2836 damage, 32 meter gain]

Corner

Damage and meter gain from adding another charge to the corner combo lacks real substantial benefit from my finding so far. It's generally better to save the charges at that point and stick with the 1 charge corner throw combos.

Air throw-

Anywhere

Air throw > dash 5C > 2CC > 236B > 214B > 22B [2527 damage, 19 meter gain](dash 5C can be replaced by 2B for consistency/easier difficulty)

Air throw > air dash j.CC > 5B > 2CC > 236B > 214B > 22B [2649 damage, 23 meter gain] *new*

Air Throw > 6CC > hjc j.B j.C > j.CC > j.236A > j.214C [2970 damage, 24 meter gain]

Corner

Air throw > 5C > 2CC > 22C > 5C > 2C > 236C > 214B > 22B [2824 damage, 27 meter gain]

Air throw > 5C > 2CC > 22C > 5C > 2C > jc j.C > j.CC > j.236A > j.214C [2949 damage, 29 meter gain]

Air throw, 1 charge

Anywhere

Air throw > dash 5C > 2CC > 236D > dash 5C > 2CC > 236B > 214B > 22B [3135 damage, 30 meter gain] (adds little damage/meter but carries further)

Air throw > 6C > 236D > dash 2CC > IAD j.CC > 5B > 2C > jc j.C > j.CC > j.236A > j.214C [3451 damage, 36 meter gain]

Corner

Air throw > 6CC > jc j.C > j.214D > 5CC (whiff first hit) > 2CC > 22C > dash 5C > 2C > 236C > 214B > 22B [3640 damage, 40 meter gain]

Air throw > 6C > 22D > 5D charge (9/10th of 1 charge) > 2B > 2CC > 22C > 5C > 2C > 236C > 214B > 22B [3262 damage, 34 meter gain]

Air throw, 2 charge-

Anywhere

Air throw > 6CC > hjc j.214D > 236D > 5B > 2CC > 236b > 214B > 22B [3486 damage, 33 meter gain](full screen carry)

Corner

Same issue as regular throw.

I'm fairly certain that I've covered all the common/important starter BnB I believe.

I suspect as time goes on we'll be able to find alternatives that will suit certain situations better but for now these will do.

Time to take a nice long break from combo works...

[Airk]

Thanks again for all your hard work. I, at least, have enough combos to last me into next year. @_@

[Ginseng]

Very nice work. Also to help things, I'll be compiling a list of my most used combos sometime by late next week. I also updated the combo thread to make it easier to read. It's missing a few things, but it should have much less clutter than before. I'll also take a look at the first couple posts of this thread to organize things a bit next week.

[pktazn]

Blurp just when I think I'm done organizing things, more pop up! But that's what I get for being lazy lol. Thanks for the work on combos Batousai! Yes I know I said I'd update the first few pages earlier this week but then I realized I have to start getting ready to go back to college for summer classes on Monday so that took up most of my time.

Definitely gonna update it tonight and of course, if you feel anything is wrong or misplaced feel free to edit it Ginseng.

[BatousaiJ]

I've always had fun doing combo works stuff and given I've been doing it at my own pace, I had a pretty easy time putting everything together.

Still, I can't help but feel that I'm missing something very obvious but I'll look it over after everything is compiled nicely then I should be able to spot any gaping holes that might be there.

You know, it's like that feeling when you're on the road in the morning leaving for work with the feeling you left your garage door open....

[pktazn]

Hmmm well I can tell you the basic section is pretty barren since I'm also using Ginseng's updated combo thread as a guide to help separate the basic and advanced. I'll probably change it to his format of beginner, intermediate, and expert though. Just trying to get everything organized so far :]

[BatousaiJ]

Hummmm... basic combos.

It's rather awkward to come up with combos that I'd personally never use but after it's all compiled, I'll look at the empty spots and try to make some filler combos, hopefully suitable to the difficulty criteria.

[KaiserCX]

Hmmm are you sure this combo works 22D > 6CC > j.214D > 5CC(whiff first hit) > 2CC > IAD j.CC > 5B > 2CC > 22C > 5C > 2C > 236B > 214B > 22B [4719 damage, 47 meter gain] they always tech out after the 2C leading to 236B for me (I can get 236A to hit but leads to nothing of course) perhaps it's character specific? I have only tried it on Noel currently so that could be a possibility. I just tried it on Valk and Tager and same story. It could be me just screwing up the timing somewhere as well, can't figure it out.

Edited May 17, 2011 by KaiserCX

[BatousaiJ]

Indeed it does, you have to dash before 5C > 2C so you're right up on the corner with them to make the distance shorter for 236B to connect.

There are a few I've noted this and other I haven't, it depends on the scenario but if 236B/C won't connect after the 5C > 2C ender, it's always because you didn't dash 5C.

[KaiserCX]

Ah alrighty, I just got it down. Thanks for the help! Now only if it worked on Jin, I guess there's nothing you can do to extend your combos against Jin?

Edited May 17, 2011 by KaiserCX

[BatousaiJ]

Ah alrighty, I just got it down. Thanks for the help! Now only if it worked on Jin, I guess there's nothing you can do to extend your combos against Jin?

Jin's got silly sliding hitbox so you'll never be able to do the 5C > 2C pick up on him.

For him, I'd go with 22D > 6CC > j.214D > 5CC(whiff first hit) > 2CC > IAD j.CC > 5B > 2CC > 236C > 214C > 22C [> 6C > 236236C optional]

Without the DD ender, it does about 4.5k, 200 ish less then the usual corner ender but its a good alternative all the same. Since Jin also can't be hit on sliding frames with a 236236C, you'll need the 6C before it too.

[KaiserCX]

I think I might just stick with the combo without the 22c > dash 5c just because it's simpler in general (I usually fail on landing the 22c due to doing IAD j.cc too quickly or I fail on the dash 5c), I'd rather lose 200 damage and consistently hit it.

[Airk]

On the subject of stuff that might actually want to be commented on in the video, would it be worth mentioning (and I know this is kinda dumb) the value of being able to do short dashes into pressure? Being able to keep close to the opponent is critical, and being able to stay in jab range is especially useful, and watching a lot of the higher end japanese players, they are making lots of very short dashes to 'slide' themselves forwards and continue jab pressure.

[BatousaiJ]

Gonna take some time later today(most likely) and add some easier combos into some gaps and most common situations.

After playing online for a bit I've found some of the most beneficial options just isn't feasible in fluctuating lag situations so I've opted for simpler options.

IAD combos have been fairly easy but the whiff and 2CC options have been difficult so far. Given I only have a few days worth of matches on line so far but it should be helpful to have more options that are easier to pull off.

If anyone else have other options, feel free to post them and we can check em out.

[Ginseng]

People and their silly netplay :D I'm not sure if I really want to use tactics that are feasible in netplay. Netplay != real scenarios after all!

Btw deleted posts for anyone that recommends RC throw or purple throw , or MASH BUTTONSSS

[Airk]

People and their silly netplay :D I'm not sure if I really want to use tactics that are feasible in netplay. Netplay != real scenarios after all!

Btw deleted posts for anyone that recommends RC throw or purple throw , or MASH BUTTONSSS

If this video is supposed to be for beginners, including tactics that work in Netplay should be MORE important than including l33t tournament strats, since the people who are playing in tournaments are not the intended audience of the video.

While we shouldn't be encouraging bad habits (Mashing when not appropriate, purple throws, etc.), it's probably a safe bet that the 50 people who actually go to Blazblue tournaments in the U.S. aren't going to be benefitting from this video regardless of what we do, so we might as well include some stuff that's applicable for the average joe.

[Ginseng]

Things that are applicable for the average joe should be applicable in actual tournament play. I am just saying that before people start placing their recommendations on what should be placed in the tutorial, they should try to think about how it would apply in offline settings, and vice versa.

[Rhiya]

The idea is basically that beginner advice should also work if you just sit down to play your friend across the street, too. Saying PURPLE THROW x N IS SO LEGIT might make someone win playing zero connections, but in offline/worthwhile connections, that's not gonna fly since people will tech it on reaction (barring Throw Reject Miss and playing against Dacidbro).

[pktazn]

If this video is supposed to be for beginners, including tactics that work in Netplay should be MORE important than including l33t tournament strats, since the people who are playing in tournaments are not the intended audience of the video.

While we shouldn't be encouraging bad habits (Mashing when not appropriate, purple throws, etc.), it's probably a safe bet that the 50 people who actually go to Blazblue tournaments in the U.S. aren't going to be benefitting from this video regardless of what we do, so we might as well include some stuff that's applicable for the average joe.

No offense, but that's a pretty narrow view of who this tutorial is for imo. What if someone wants to learn Tsubaki for tournament play? This tutorial video is to show people how to play Tsubaki for veterans and beginners alike.