[CS2] Tsubaki Tutorial Video

[BatousaiJ]

Lets not blow this out and make this a "netplay vs scene" thing. I really dislike the elitism and ignorance from both sides of the issue when it comes to this argument.

Besides, I'm merely suggesting more combo options for the situations that come up often that vary more so in the realm of difficulty than anything else.

Last time I checked, more options in your arsenal is never a bad thing.

Been a bit busy today, I'll look into adding the stuff tomorrow and edit some of the ones that could be better.

[Ginseng]

In the scenario you cannot do the best combos:

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?11005-CS2-Tsubaki-Yayoi-Combo-Compilation-2.0(Updated-5-13)&p=926901&viewfull=1#post926901

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?11005-CS2-Tsubaki-Yayoi-Combo-Compilation-2.0(Updated-5-13)&p=926921&viewfull=1#post926921

General FAQ on gameplay or combo execution:

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?9343-CS2-The-Tsubaki-Yayoi-FAQ-v1.1-(Updated-5-15-2011)

If you guys have issues, take it to PMs. Deleted a few posts.

[BatousaiJ]

Given as you guys know all 623C > j.214A combos are not of the same difficulty, the ones that don't use the second hit of 2C are intermediate combos at best and you can almost consider ones that gets rid of 2C link entirely and goes straight to j.C even easier than that. The only expert variations of combos should rightfully be the 2CC links after whiffs

For example combos listed like these

"(5A/2A) > 5BB 5CC > 623C > j.214A whiff > 2C > j.C > j.214D > 5C(w)C 2CC > 22[C] > dash 5C 2C > 236B 214B 22B

6A > 5CC > 6B > 623C > j.214A whiff > 2C > hjc. j.C > j.214D > 5C(w)C 2CC > 22[C] > dash 5C 2C > 236B 214B 22B

2B > 5BB > 5CC > 623C > j.214A whiff > 2C > hjc. j.C > j.214D > 5C(w)C 2CC > 22[C] > dash 5C 2C > 236B 214B 22B"

In the expert section are rightfully noted not so much do to their 2C timing(you don't even have to dash 2C in the corner) but the often fickle nature and added difficulty of the 22[C] > dash 5C 2C link.

Also more importantly that, 2B starter I quoted there absolutely does not work. I don't remember doing any 2B starter combos and that was definitely artificially added on. They will be able to tech at the 5CC > 2CC point which make the point invalid.

That needs to be replaced with

2B > 5CC > 623C > j.214A whiff > 2C > j.C > j.C > j.214D > 5C(w)C 2CC > 22[C] > dash 5C 2C > 236C 214B 22B.

Any how, getting back to it- so in truth, if you remove that corner specific ender you're left with a easier combo in the intermediate level like so...

"(2A/5A optional) >5BB > 5CC > 623C > j.214A whiff > 2C > j.C > j.C > j.214D > 5C(w)C 2CC > 236C > 214C > 22C"

Note that the use of the C variation of the ender is intentional as it add more damage without any sacrifice in many scenarios. You lose a bit of damage and meter but it tones down the difficulty while keeping all the important positional benefits so the ones without the corner 5C > 2C pick up enders should be added into intermediate as they are more or less the best options for that difficulty level. 236D link in the corner are very silly as the major point of the 236D outside of mugen and first hit is to carry to the corner.

I'll also add to that we should optimize many of the combos and make sure it does the most that it can if you're not sacrificing anything to get it.

For example, the one we have listed now as I mentioned before

(5A/2A) > 5BB 5CC > 623C > j.214A whiff > 2C > j.C > j.214D > 5C(w)C 2CC > 22[C] > dash 5C 2C > 236B 214B 22B [3384 damage, 42 meter gain]

There's no reason why this combo isn't this instead.

(5A/2A) > 5BB 5CC > 623C > j.214A whiff > 2C > j.C > j.C > j.214D > 5C(w)C 2CC > 22[C] > dash 5C 2C > 236C 214B 22B [3446 damage, 44 meter gain]

It adds a little bit more damage and heat and adds no real difficulty to the combo.

Also, posting an interesting finding that I have overlooked and have been mistakened for a while is the way the dash 5C > 2C link works.

I thought at first that you need to charge the 22C long enough for bonus untechable time for you to get the chance to get in there for that dash 5C and while this is true, there is in fact another method that is perhaps a easier, cleaner solution to the dash 5C > 2C pick up method.

The trick to landing that 22C at the highest point you can as they're falling. While they'll be able to tech more or less as immediately as they go into the sliding motion, because they are hit from a higher falling location, that sliding animation would still be in effect by the time you get in there with the dash 5C making this pick up possible.

I'll leave that to you to decide whichever is easier for you but I believe the charge method is the more difficult one of the two and potentially done well, they lead to the same result, you'll want to practice and figure out which one you can get out more consistently.

Edited May 21, 2011 by BatousaiJ

[Ginseng]

I do j.C > j.214D because it looks cooler lolol :D Also gives people an easier time to do 5C(w)C > 2CC since they can eyeball their landing easier.

Also to note is if people are too lazy to do 5CC > 2CC after j.214D, most of the time they can do 6C > 236C 214B 22B.

Edited May 21, 2011 by Ginseng

[BatousaiJ]

Man, we haven't done crap for the tutorial video since ages.

I don't even know where we left off and what still needs to be done.

We've all had our fair bit of time with the game by now to finish this up I think so lets get to it.

[pktazn]

Hmmm... well going by the first posts we need:

Breakdown of normals

Breakdown of special moves

Okizeme

So we're not doing too bad.

EDIT: We definitely don't need any more combos haha. More like a pick and choose which to show now for combos. These aren't too hard. I'll write some notes on them later, though we could just use what's in the guide already.

Edited June 2, 2011 by pktazn

[Eshi]

I'll try to contribute something. in regards to okizeme, pretty much the first thing I experimented on with Tsubaki was OTG 6A in a corner. She has quite a few options after it making it quite useful, and almost every corner combo can end with it.

1. 22D fully charged. This is the most obvious one and beats a bunch of things, including wake-up blocking, quick tech and roll tech (if spaced correctly so they can't roll behind you). It can be hit by 5 frame 5As if not spaced well.

2. 5B. If used immediately after 6A recovers, it will stuff everything (including holding up back) that isn't invincible.

3. 2B. If they don't emergency tech the 6A, 2B will pick them up and reset the combo. If they do then it's a decent low but can be avoided by jumping.

4. Forward throw. Beats blocking.

still trying to figure out the best options for stopping reversals, but blocking always works. As for midscreen stuff, 2A is good for beating roll techs and recovers quickly otherwise. 2A x2 can be hitconfirmed pretty easily into 2CC > IAD jCC > 5B > 2CC > ender for 2.1k. Midscreen knockdown is a good time to charge because her oki isn't great.

Edited June 2, 2011 by Eshi

[diospyros]

Hmmm... well going by the first posts we need:

Breakdown of normals

Breakdown of special moves

Okizeme

So we're not doing too bad.

EDIT: We definitely don't need any more combos haha. More like a pick and choose which to show now for combos. These aren't too hard. I'll write some notes on them later, though we could just use what's in the guide already.

On breakdown of normals, the most used normals and pokes should be covered like 5B or 2C. If all of them are covered, the viewer would probably get lost so it needs to be straight to the point.

On special moves, what are the properties that should be known(eg 214D)?

I was thinking that the tutorial video should be done in three parts( with a 5 minute time lapse for each) similar to how Hexanoid and company broke down Noel's beginner and intermediate combos.

I also made a quick sketch on the tutorial's organization to have at least something done.

[pktazn]

On breakdown of normals, the most used normals and pokes should be covered like 5B or 2C. If all of them are covered, the viewer would probably get lost so it needs to be straight to the point.

On special moves, what are the properties that should be known(eg 214D)?

I was thinking that the tutorial video should be done in three parts( with a 5 minute time lapse for each) similar to how Hexanoid and company broke down Noel's beginner and intermediate combos.

I also made a quick sketch on the tutorial's organization to have at least something done.

Last I heard we're not making the videos, SJ is. We're just providing the information. The sample video looks nice though so we could definitely use it as a basis for how we're going to organize it but I'm not sure what SJ wants to do. I'll check his thread in a second.

Does everyone pretty much agree that it should only be what we use the most for choosing which normals we show as well as the information on specials?

This is a group project so it'd be nice to get input from everyone.

Edited June 3, 2011 by pktazn

[diospyros]

Hmm... I would trust if a pro Tsubaki player did the video because he would know which tactics are viable as opposed to someone who has general knowledge of the character. I'm kinda being hasty on my judgement so I'll see what happens.

[pktazn]

Hmm... I would trust if a pro Tsubaki player did the video because he would know which tactics are viable as opposed to someone who has general knowledge of the character. I'm kinda being hasty on my judgement so I'll see what happens.

My bad I should have been more clear. I ment that the information we give him will be what he uses in the video.

[diospyros]

That's still iffy though, but if it's information being handed out, it'll probably have to be shorten to a bullet-point list from >3 page written notes.

[Airk]

Last I heard we're not making the videos, SJ is. We're just providing the information. The sample video looks nice though so we could definitely use it as a basis for how we're going to organize it but I'm not sure what SJ wants to do. I'll check his thread in a second.

Does everyone pretty much agree that it should only be what we use the most for choosing which normals we show as well as the information on specials?

This is a group project so it'd be nice to get input from everyone.

I still feel that we should err on the side of giving too much information here - the various other communities aren't debating this - if you read the thread for this stuff in the Lambda forums, or the Jin forums or any of the other forums where there's a public thread for this stuff, they write out all the normals. SJ can't put in any information we don't give him, but is entirely capable of leaving out information.

I propose the following - we do a list of all normals, and we arrange it roughly in order of importance and give a couple of 'break points' where it's like "everything above here is crucial and must be included" and "everything above here is good information" and "this last section is basically just filler" :P

So like:

5B

2C

2A

6A

6B

6C

---

j.C©

5C©

5A

2B

3C

---

j.B

j.A

Or something. :P

With regard to specials, I think the information in Ginseng's guide is fine for that. Though, er, there are a couple of things that need changing there, most notably:

"B version has a green aura and can go through projectiles (dependent on which move)."

since, really, only 22B does anything weird with projectiles anymore, and that's hard to use and not that important

C version has a red aura. C specials except j.236C and j.214C and 623C removes one primer.

623C doesn't break a primer either

All non-D specials can be cancelled to D specials on block or whiff with the exception of 22x and j.214x. Cannot cancel to non-D specials.

D-specials can be D-cancelled as well, if the frame data is any guide.

22A/B/C/D – A, B, and C are the same damage, and can be held down to charge the attack for more untechable time. B-version's hitbox can reflect destroy(?) projectiles.

I'm pretty sure 22B doesn't REFLECT projectiles?

Otherwise, the info in the guide looks good enough to cover the "overview of specials"

[pktazn]

I should have worded my sentence better since it basically implies that it's been decided that we're just using the most used instead of leaving it open to you guys. My bad, I have to work on that haha. Also, duly noted for the specials Airk.

And if anyone wants to post some info but are unsure about the content, it's still totally okay to post it! This is a collaborative effort so there's absolutely nothing wrong about contributing something for the sake of contribution.

[BatousaiJ]

With regard to specials, I think the information in Ginseng's guide is fine for that. Though, er, there are a couple of things that need changing there, most notably:

since, really, only 22B does anything weird with projectiles anymore, and that's hard to use and not that important

623C doesn't break a primer either

D-specials can be D-cancelled as well, if the frame data is any guide.

I'm pretty sure 22B doesn't REFLECT projectiles?

Otherwise, the info in the guide looks good enough to cover the "overview of specials"

5B(best all around poke), 2C(best anti air), 2A(quickest and most reliable poke in short range), 6A(only overhead), 6C(only fatal counter), j.CC(best hit stun as we're landing and delay in second hit is good) are all very important normals that should be covered.

6B is only really in notable in gatling situations and should be mentioned in that section. The only "must" cover gatlings in my book are 5B(B) > 2BB || 2B(B) > 5BB > 5CC || 5B(B) > 6A || 2B > 6A || 5C© < 6B.

All of Airk's correction to what Ginseng's got is correct except 22B does "break or reflect" most single hit projectiles but it's so not worth using that we can just not mention it.

[diospyros]

So, from significance, normals would be reviewed and briefly stop at ones like

2C

-anti-air

-used for etc..

That’s sounds good.

As for overview of specials(and normals too), some of it will be loosely based from the FAQS and some of the stuff will be based on what was posted by Airk near the beginning of the CS2 threads. As for combos, we have so many listed, but how many will be needed and sent to SpiritJuice? Also, where do they fall in the review order? I was thinking that they should be placed last though I see arguments for otherwise. Also, should we suggest that certain normals should be seen in action during matches(eg 2C) or leave it be?

[Airk]

5

All of Airk's correction to what Ginseng's got is correct except 22B does "break or reflect" most single hit projectiles but it's so not worth using that we can just not mention it.

Out of curiosity, what projectiles are actually REFLECTED by this? (making Tiny Lobelia bounce doesn't count. That's just what it does when it hits something.)

[BatousaiJ]

Well, it does count since it doesn't get broken like every other projectile but rather reflected back.

If you're asking if 22B is going to reflect back spark bolt or ice sword or something, no. I don't think anyone has that function in the game.

[Daedron]

Maybe it's time to revive this thread and hopefully get some things done, It seems I'll handle all video recording so I'll need some kind of base to go off, like how are we going to be organizing it?

The Ragna video was really good so I think we're best off following their format.

1. Explain how the character works, strengths and weaknesses.

2. Normals with framedata and explanation/tips/uses

3. Specials with framedata and explanation/tips/uses

4. 2nd part of video dedicated to combos, seperated into midscreen/corner practical/unpractical and different starters.

This seems to work well, right?

I also need someone to proof-read all text in the video before I finalize it. We don't want any hard to understand sentences or sentences that are plain wrong obviously.

[Airk]

Maybe it's time to revive this thread and hopefully get some things done, It seems I'll handle all video recording so I'll need some kind of base to go off, like how are we going to be organizing it?

The Ragna video was really good so I think we're best off following their format.

1. Explain how the character works, strengths and weaknesses.

2. Normals with framedata and explanation/tips/uses

3. Specials with framedata and explanation/tips/uses

4. 2nd part of video dedicated to combos, seperated into midscreen/corner practical/unpractical and different starters.

This seems to work well, right?

I also need someone to proof-read all text in the video before I finalize it. We don't want any hard to understand sentences or sentences that are plain wrong obviously.

I will gladly assist with proofreading. I also generally agree with using the format that the Ragna video did, with one exception - I really think there needs to be a section on "pressure" where things like blockstrings, charge cancelling, and the like get touched on.

[BatousaiJ]

We have the resources and everything important listed down here and there.

It's just a matter of putting it together and organizing it.

[KayEff]

my my i'm making quite an influence aren't i

[BatousaiJ]

my my i'm making quite an influence aren't i

Who the hell are you?

[pktazn]

I'll help with proof-reading and even hosting the vids if you want.

Thanks for handling the recording Daedron btw. I didn't really want to say anything since I knew there were only a few people here on the Tsu forums who actually had recording devices so I didn't want to put all the work on them.

Edited September 28, 2011 by pktazn

[Daedron]

I will gladly assist with proofreading. I also generally agree with using the format that the Ragna video did, with one exception - I really think there needs to be a section on "pressure" where things like blockstrings, charge cancelling, and the like get touched on.

I agree, showing off the basic pressure strings and the like will help a lot, and also show what NOT to do.

I'll help with proof-reading and even hosting the vids if you want.

Sure, the video will get more attention on your channel than mine anyways, and I could care less about those few subscribers I would "maybe" be getting, considering I don't upload all that often anyways. I guess I just upload it to mediafire or another hosting site and then you'll download it then upload it? (I guess that's how you and BatousaiJ did it)

Thanks for handling the recording Daedron btw. I didn't really want to say anything since I knew there were only a few people here on the Tsu forums who actually had recording devices so I didn't want to put all the work on them.

No problem, I actually don't really mind doing this. I was up doing combos for the combo video until 5AM, just too much fun so I didn't really track the time all that well.

The only annoying part is video editing programs that crash while rendering the video when it's at 95%...

In any case, I think I'll actually create a text file with all the text that's going to appear in the video, that way it's easy for others to proof-read because they will only have to download a small file. I'll upload it when I'm done with it and you guys can start proof-reading while I start getting the recording done. Make sure to check for grammar mistakes and the like as well, English isn't my native language after all.