Zeromus_X Posted June 3, 2011 Posted June 3, 2011 No advice for this matchup yet? Fought a really good Bang recently (feux_follets) or however it's spelled). Maybe I'm a scrub, but I seem to be having more trouble against Bang than in CS1! Is there anything I can do against a Bang willing to burn TK dnails all day just to get in and kill me before I can do anything? Like, some Bangs will just start off the match straight up TK Dnails and I'm already in a situation where I have to block. His jump cancel/airdash pressure with the crossup kick seems stronger too. Maybe it's because of increased gravity, but I used to have no trouble 2C'ing or just airthrowing him if he tried that in CS1 but now I find myself having to respect it more. I try to play careful and run away a lot against Bang; maybe I'm overcommitting at midrange or just need to improve my neutral more. But this matchup seems really annoying so far; I don't like how easily Bang just waltzes in and stays on me.
cookiehours Posted June 7, 2011 Posted June 7, 2011 No advice for this matchup yet? Fought a really good Bang recently (feux_follets) or however it's spelled). Maybe I'm a scrub, but I seem to be having more trouble against Bang than in CS1! Is there anything I can do against a Bang willing to burn TK dnails all day just to get in and kill me before I can do anything? Like, some Bangs will just start off the match straight up TK Dnails and I'm already in a situation where I have to block. His jump cancel/airdash pressure with the crossup kick seems stronger too. Maybe it's because of increased gravity, but I used to have no trouble 2C'ing or just airthrowing him if he tried that in CS1 but now I find myself having to respect it more. I try to play careful and run away a lot against Bang; maybe I'm overcommitting at midrange or just need to improve my neutral more. But this matchup seems really annoying so far; I don't like how easily Bang just waltzes in and stays on me. Oh, feux is on my friendslist. Haven't fought him yet but he'll most likely kick my ass. .__. I think IB'ing is probably the safest option against Bang, at least from my experience. But his pressure *is* a problem despite damage nerfs...
C0R Posted June 7, 2011 Posted June 7, 2011 Important note, after 5d on block you can dp FOR FREE. No option he has will beat it, it's -15 on normal block so Origins will catch the recovery, whereas if he performs any special cancel (Supers will still beat dp but well... you shouldn't be worrying about that), he will be CH out.
Remius Posted June 8, 2011 Posted June 8, 2011 (edited) Keep note of the methods he can use to get to you. To stuff his 3 nail approach and give you some time to set some steins up from long range, be sure to use Arrows of Heaven. Very useful ability; will eat all his nails, keep you safe and probably hit him too. Don't get predictable with zoning or anything, because he can use his guardpoint teleport to his advantage. (Although it's pretty risky, IMO. I haven't met too many who do this.) Watch your DPs; dont get them baited, because we all know how fast that 5a is and what it does to people. Be aware that his 3C has no problem hitting you from a decent distance, and that daifunka has a retarded hitbox. Throw some 6a's out there. If you're successful, he may become a bit more lenient with his jump-ins. But honestly, stuffing his nail approaches seem to be the #1 thing to make this easier for me. IMO this matchup (like most of Mu's) seem to be about who can get the pressure and keep the fire going. Once he gets you in a corner, your chances of living drop pretty damn sharply. Edited June 12, 2011 by Remius
C0R Posted June 9, 2011 Posted June 9, 2011 I would suggest staying away from 214d in neutral or using in attempt to keep Bang at bay, the long startup, coupled with the sacrifice of steins, is very risky. An experienced Bang player isn't going to give you that much room to breath during footsies and will simply hit you out with 3c, 5a or j.b. It's much too slow to reactively block nails, whereas 236a is much more appropriate in that instance.
wilde_jagd88 Posted June 12, 2011 Posted June 12, 2011 so you're talking about me behind my back now, zeromus? -_^
Remius Posted June 12, 2011 Posted June 12, 2011 (edited) I would suggest staying away from 214d in neutral or using in attempt to keep Bang at bay, the long startup, coupled with the sacrifice of steins, is very risky. An experienced Bang player isn't going to give you that much room to breath during footsies and will simply hit you out with 3c, 5a or j.b. It's much too slow to reactively block nails, whereas 236a is much more appropriate in that instance. Very very sorry. I got Arrows of Heaven and Divine Light of the Heavens mixed up. Next time ill just say the hovering circle. I'll change it. Edited June 12, 2011 by Remius
xntrikcat Posted June 13, 2011 Posted June 13, 2011 (edited) Hmm. I can dp bang out of his 5d -> 623b only when I IB the 5d. Edited June 13, 2011 by xntrikcat
FlyingVe Posted June 13, 2011 Posted June 13, 2011 Your better off just waiting and trying to IB the 623B. Bang has no options afterwards, and it's punishable on IB (regular block if his spacing was unbelievably bad). Even if you fail the IB, Bang's pressure is basically over, so you can do stuff.
C0R Posted June 15, 2011 Posted June 15, 2011 If you just let 5d slide, they always have the option of not special canceling and resetting pressure, or special canceling into bumpers, which can be tricky to see coming if you're looking to block Supercrash.
YukiBlue Posted August 1, 2011 Posted August 1, 2011 Fuck Bangs 3C. This Matchup is a nightmare for me. First and formost, I despise D Nails. Anywhere that isn't a fullscreen away and you're forced into Block. Bumpers. Screw them to hell, The only Bang I have on my Friends list uses Bumpers like nothing I've ever seen before. FRKZ - NOPE I just have difficulty with everything Bang has. I find it easier if you play Aggressive, But that's High Risk/High Reward and not very reliable. Bang isn't solid on Defense so Momentum and Pressure always helps, But he is a slippery bastard and getting him under some MuPressure is possibly the hardest thing to do against him. AGH
pochp Posted August 2, 2011 Posted August 2, 2011 (edited) This is almost purely netplay tactics, but if you mash 2A while bang is doing a blockstring you'll often beat his overhead and command grab attempts. If he goes low you will eat a frame trap. I actually tend to do this sometimes offline as well. I'll do it during their first blockstring of the game, not do it in the following one, and from there I'll judge if it's a good idea to keep mashing that 2A and at what frequency. It's always good to make your opponent worry about his offense, mix this in with DPs after blocked D-nails/5B and you should be good for a while against many bangs. Then again this is from CS1 I'm not sure if this has changed in CS2, I've barely played this matchup since. edit : yup, outdated. Edited August 4, 2011 by pochp
FlyingVe Posted August 2, 2011 Posted August 2, 2011 Mashing on bang is not as effective as in CS1 because of how his moves changed. Disrespecting bang with 2A will get you CH by 5B or 2B. My approach this matchup is just to run away. Instead of trying to win, just try not to lose. Also, if you do manage to corner Bang... rape his face.
BloodyRootBeers Posted August 2, 2011 Posted August 2, 2011 and if he overheads with 6B instead of 5C, he'll sail right over the 2A and CH you
C0R Posted August 3, 2011 Posted August 3, 2011 After playing Kensou quite a bit over the course of Evo, I'd like to share my thoughts about this matchup. Damage- Bang's average damage midscreen off a strong starter is... less than 2k. Barely a thousand on crouching, maybe 2.5k with meter. These numbers effectively double in the corner. Mu's average damage off a bad starter is 2k, off a CH; 5-6k. With meter, easily 6k. Topend damage remains the same in the corner, but lowest possible damage doubles. tldr; Mu does TWICE AS MUCH DAMAGE off EVERY HIT. Tools- Dnails is not nearly as effective against Mu as they are against conventional zoners, Habaya presence nullifies them easily; and with her noncommittal zoning, she's free to jump through them when they come out. Mu has a DP, which forces Bang to take safer offensive options, such as less 5d in his pressure, or less dnail resets. Her abundance of large normals with high reward severely limit Bang's mobility, as he cannot afford to trade/lose/contest 2c/5c/j.c when the risk/reward is so skewed in Mu's favor. A very skilled Bang player will still be able to outmaneuver Mu, but his ability to capitalize on his positioning is very, very small. Yo Burning Heart is not good, but it does beat SoD.
SolarMisae Posted August 3, 2011 Posted August 3, 2011 Useful tips C0R bro. Good shit. Will come in handy at my casuals.
C0R Posted August 3, 2011 Posted August 3, 2011 I don't think I lost a match to Bang at Evo. Except of course for Huey25drunk. Dodgebro's juking was too good, I could never get a match with him.
Dacidbro Posted August 3, 2011 Posted August 3, 2011 (edited) Haha. Sorry. You guys will be at NCI right? Also, Kensou can't show you Bang's strong midscreen damage, so I wouldn't use him for reference. Bang's midscreen damage is very high on 2C CH, 3C FC, and 6C FC, so be careful about your DP (it can range anywhere from 3k-7k dependant on which one and whether it finds the corner). Oh, and without CH, if you use super it's roughly 3-3.5k and pushes to corner. Edited August 3, 2011 by Dacidbro
C0R Posted August 3, 2011 Posted August 3, 2011 It seems people are looking more poor than they usually would. Dusty/NiggaJoe/Huey and I can make it at least though. Spark might tag along for giggles, I'll keep you posted.
cookiehours Posted August 10, 2011 Posted August 10, 2011 But he's so ridiculously fast. :S Fought a Bang last night but it was so annoying. ;-;
SolarMisae Posted August 10, 2011 Posted August 10, 2011 Eh he's not that annoying is you zone him right and jump over his slide. He's fast but it doesn't matter how fast he is there are lasers everywhere keeping him immobile. If he tries to guard point anything I believe you can grab him after the teleport.
cookiehours Posted August 10, 2011 Posted August 10, 2011 Eh he's not that annoying is you zone him right and jump over his slide. He's fast but it doesn't matter how fast he is there are lasers everywhere keeping him immobile. If he tries to guard point anything I believe you can grab him after the teleport. Should have used more lasers in that match then.
YukiBlue Posted August 10, 2011 Posted August 10, 2011 3 Points. If he isn't under any form of pressure and is around 6C range. Just be ready for that fucking 3C. (So easy to punish) 236A is surprisingly useful for fucking his Air options 2C is beyond gdlk in this Matchup.
SolarMisae Posted August 10, 2011 Posted August 10, 2011 (edited) The only matches lasers are NOT awesome in is sorta Tager and sorta Hakumen. But thats me. Habakiri is where it's at for those guys. Otherwise light show all day every day. Lasers can even tame a D happy Taokaka from flying all over and make her fearful to do just about anything. Course you gotta have the right formation to keep the laser on them for longer. (5D > 6D is your BnB offensive arrangement. 5D > 2D is your BnB defensive arrangement.) But yeah Bang's range is meh so play keep away at the start, set up steins carefully one by one as you find time, activate command laser and he can't move much after that lol. Run in pressure for free steal a primer or two and make him catch you again. Just watch out for nails. Oh and yes, 2C...2C anti-air all effin day. You'll be lol'ing at Bang after that. Edited August 10, 2011 by SolarMisae
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