GunslingerSonic Posted July 26, 2011 Posted July 26, 2011 (edited) How to escape is the question we should ask. Noel's Options for this situation is all risky. I learned that her 6A is not the safe option. (THE HARD WAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) Edited July 26, 2011 by GunslingerSonic
LunaKage Posted July 26, 2011 Posted July 26, 2011 I normally just block and wait him out, they all fuck up eventually.
GunslingerSonic Posted July 26, 2011 Posted July 26, 2011 (edited) Block is ok but be careful of his Moves that takes out Guard primer. Noel got 4 Primers. That's not enough. -Be Careful of his 6A overhead, 6B Low hit, 6C, Zaneiga (214D~C), Hirentotsu (j.214B), and Jayoku Houtenjin (If blocked, it takes 1 primer.) Edited July 26, 2011 by GunslingerSonic
skd Posted July 26, 2011 Posted July 26, 2011 I'd assume the hole is less than 5 frames, since not even 6A works in that situation in my experience, and since her head invuln starts at frame 5, I'd place the hole anywhere from 1-4 frames. I haven't tested on IB yet though. Hazama can have a ~15f hole to punish 4D in between the chain and jB by mashing B nonstop. So yeah, Even if you instant block 4D isnt a good option. consider hazama's travel time and how the other player has to pull in or if they delay it or WHATEVER. They might be reacting too, and think about it. In these small time frames, 2-3f dictates whether you eat an anti air or not. Practically speaking, yeah its possible to anti air hazama. You just have to react to that pause of them not chaining in fast enough, if you wanna risk it. Im pretty sure ive anti aired hazama players out of chain blockstun, but then again i dont anti air many GOOD hazama players haha. back in CS1 whenever i played zidane he would always OS his chain pullins to bait DP as well as serve as a frame trap. my memory might also be mingling with my cs1 memories, as i havent played cs2 much (har har with the puns)
LunaKage Posted July 26, 2011 Posted July 26, 2011 Nah I know for a fact 4D is never a good idea on a chaining Hazama, it's too slow. You say that Zidane had an OS to bait even DPs? What was it? The best Hazama I've ever fought in CS2 was LK's, but he didn't really do anything special in regards to chaining, at least not that I could see myself.
skd Posted July 26, 2011 Posted July 26, 2011 Nah I know for a fact 4D is never a good idea on a chaining Hazama, it's too slow. You say that Zidane had an OS to bait even DPs? What was it? The best Hazama I've ever fought in CS2 was LK's, but he didn't really do anything special in regards to chaining, at least not that I could see myself. All it was was frame trapping with jB and using the momentum from the chain in to land cancel in time before a DP's active frames could kick in.
LunaKage Posted July 26, 2011 Posted July 26, 2011 All it was was frame trapping with jB and using the momentum from the chain in to land cancel in time before a DP's active frames could kick in. Ah, so kind of like a safe jump. Sneaky shit, but as you said before, it's "beaten" by just blocking.
skd Posted July 26, 2011 Posted July 26, 2011 Ah, so kind of like a safe jump. Sneaky shit, but as you said before, it's "beaten" by just blocking. goddamn are you always on dl or something o_________o
LunaKage Posted July 26, 2011 Posted July 26, 2011 goddamn are you always on dl or something o_________o Nah, tonight's just a rough night where I haven't slept, but I'm heading off to bed now. Or am I?
jailhousefrog89 Posted July 28, 2011 Posted July 28, 2011 if hazama is just throwin chains on block into the glide forward into blockstring shit at me from full screen is there any way to punish him as hes on his way in after the chain is blocked? 6a doesn't seem to work..or am i mistiming it or do i have to block it :o
GunslingerSonic Posted July 28, 2011 Posted July 28, 2011 Blocking is the only option we got. You can risk it Counter Attacking Hazama but I won't recommend it.
Chiizu Posted July 28, 2011 Author Posted July 28, 2011 Yeah, one wrong move and you're in for trouble when facing Haz. Anyway, other than specific stuff, any advice about the general approach to this matchup? I've yet to update the General Strategy part of the thread.
jailhousefrog89 Posted July 28, 2011 Posted July 28, 2011 man that sucks, gotta be so careful then because if you block one chain on the ground you're in for some serious must-block-this-mixup shenanigans
cookiehours Posted July 29, 2011 Posted July 29, 2011 I hate this matchup already and I just started using Noel.
Zeron_X25 Posted July 29, 2011 Posted July 29, 2011 Play me Cookie. I can help you get some matchup exp. Just don't get hit by CH 3C...
cookiehours Posted July 29, 2011 Posted July 29, 2011 Play me Cookie. I can help you get some matchup exp. Just don't get hit by CH 3C... Oki. o3o
Arcknight Posted September 10, 2011 Posted September 10, 2011 I was looking at a couple of replays from the other day and I would say 5D is pretty reliable to go through chains. I counter-hit the flying idiot a couple of times successfully. Of course, like anything Noel does, this is a gamble. Noel needs to go to Gambling Addiction meetings I think.
HexaNoid Posted September 10, 2011 Posted September 10, 2011 While that'a true, it also relies on us reacting to Hazama doing D~D or we're pretty much screwed. If he does D~A, for example, and we've pre-emptively used 5D to go through it, he can just do another chain and get a CH into a combo. Same with all our other drives.
SkyKing Posted September 10, 2011 Posted September 10, 2011 Also, Hazama's will use chains as a feint and not just with D~A. They can purposefully leave it short and go into one of their other movement options in Chain and throw out another one after the recover. He's just slippery to deal with no matter where he is on screen. Our drives are decent answers, but he can adapt to them just as we can adapt to his drive gimmicks.
HexaNoid Posted September 10, 2011 Posted September 10, 2011 Also, what can be considered a general strategy to use against Hazama? I typically treat him in a similar way to Mu - a zoner who can deal with close-quarter combat if needs be - but his movements can get very tricky and you have to be aware of his Ouroboros gauge just as much as your opponent. Applying overwhelming pressure onto him and limiting his movements as much as possible has seen the most success for me, but I still feel like I have to be careful approaching him sometimes because of the threat of 214D~B (Stance~DP).
SkyKing Posted September 10, 2011 Posted September 10, 2011 I generally treat this match-up the same way as well. For the most part, I like to play around with the spacing by constantly being in and out of Hazama's optimal strike zones and hoping to bait an Ouroboros + Movement option from him. I also like to air-throw the areas that he might move to after dodging a Chain because he can't stop himself once he starts moving that way. As for the ground game, I treat it like Noel, where he can be pretty nasty with his stance stuff as well as his normals, except his normals can actually lead to some nasty damage. Constantly look out for stance habits from the Hazama to know if he gets 214D~B happy or if he's the type to create space with normals so he can run away. All in all, this match-up feels like the one who can control the pace of the match will be in the advantage.
LunaKage Posted September 10, 2011 Posted September 10, 2011 When fighting Hazama I normally jump while holding back and let the momentum of the jump close a bit of space, it makes the match a slow process but at least you don't have to worry about eating a chain while running forward.
Arcknight Posted September 10, 2011 Posted September 10, 2011 It seems like a losing situation to try and keep pressure on Hazama after a knockdown. He has a lot of wake-up options that are very solid. Are they all punishable on block though?
Recommended Posts