Dont_Explain Posted February 12, 2012 Posted February 12, 2012 When you barrier block you have +1 frame of blockstun. so the move would put you at -5 actually.
KayEff Posted February 12, 2012 Posted February 12, 2012 no, fluck's right; it would be -3 instead of -5 since it adds blockstun to the opponent, not the attacker.
Dont_Explain Posted February 12, 2012 Posted February 12, 2012 oh derp. i think i read too quickly. sorry bout that.
DubiousCurvLoop Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 Just one extra frame, so the -4 move would become -3 instead.Has it always been like that, or is that a change made to BB in CS2? I always thought Barrier added blockstun, like FD'ing does in GG. So if Barrier reduces blockstun, what happens when the -4 attack is instant Barrier Blocked? Does it become 0, -1, or remain -3?
Delrian Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) Has it always been like that, or is that a change made to BB in CS2? I always thought Barrier added blockstun, like FD'ing does in GG. It does add an extra frame of blockstun, so the defender is in blockstun for an extra frame, making the barrier blocked move 1 frame safer for the attacker. Frame advantage/disadvantage is determined from the perspective of the attacker, rather than the defender. Edited February 13, 2012 by Delrian
Fluck Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 Has it always been like that, or is that a change made to BB in CS2? I always thought Barrier added blockstun, like FD'ing does in GG. So if Barrier reduces blockstun, what happens when the -4 attack is instant Barrier Blocked? Does it become 0, -1, or remain -3? Barrier IB (and blockstun in general) depends on if you're in the air or on the ground, but it sounds like you're talking about the ground. It'll become -6. Like Del said, frame advantage is from the perspective of the attacker. So -4 means the guy doing the move recovers 4 frames slower than the blocker. After the barrier block, it becomes -3 because of the extra frame of blockstun delaying the blocker's recovery. Add in the IB, and it now becomes -6 because of a reduction of 3 frames of blockstun. In other words, all the different modifiers to blockstun are cumulative. It's possible to Barrier IB an attack in the air, for example, which would give a total of 3 modifiers. Air blockstun is an extra 2 frames, barrier is an extra frame, and IB is a reduction of 6 frames in the air. So a move that is -2 when normal blocked on the ground would become -5 when Barrier IBed in the air, and +1 if not IBed!
Xie Posted February 14, 2012 Author Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) So, I'm going to start on the 16th. The first character will be... Bang. I need to learn more about this character, and he's somewhat simple. As for character order... I'll probably just do it on my own whims. Frankly, I want to play some lesser played characters, and I also want to prepare for Blue Revo at the same time, so I will probably just pick characters I think are the most useful to myself and others. Edited February 14, 2012 by Xie
zeth07 Posted February 14, 2012 Posted February 14, 2012 So, I'm going to start on the 16th. The first character will be... Bang. I need to learn more about this character, and he's somewhat simple. As for character order... I'll probably just do it on my own whims. Frankly, I want to play some lesser played characters, and I also want to prepare for Blue Revo at the same time, so I will probably just pick characters I think are the most useful to myself and others. This pleases me.
huey253 Posted February 14, 2012 Posted February 14, 2012 some bang player might even stop by during his show for some tips
Alpha152 Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 Did Stay Free have any influence on this decision? :3
Xie Posted February 15, 2012 Author Posted February 15, 2012 For some reason, Bang is the most played character at BBR. Followed by Litchi, followed by Hakumen.
Kujikawa Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 Is it still an hour long? It starts at 1am here and I got work at 6am.
Xie Posted February 16, 2012 Author Posted February 16, 2012 It's casual, so it will probably run around 2 to 3 hours. If you will work 5 hours from the start time... you may want to consider skipping it.
Kujikawa Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 It's casual, so it will probably run around 2 to 3 hours. If you will work 5 hours from the start time... you may want to consider skipping it. Yeah, I'll pass - I'll check out the YT upload later.
A.X.I.S. Posted February 17, 2012 Posted February 17, 2012 So, I'm going to start on the 16th. The first character will be... Bang. I need to learn more about this character, and he's somewhat simple. As for character order... I'll probably just do it on my own whims. Frankly, I want to play some lesser played characters, and I also want to prepare for Blue Revo at the same time, so I will probably just pick characters I think are the most useful to myself and others. This explains why you picked bang against me... Sorry man but I was just working on busting up lagging japanese folk.
Star-Demon Posted February 17, 2012 Posted February 17, 2012 I gotta admit - I didn't learn much last night. I have some sort of copypaste from Huey that involves 2C->623... But for "Learning Bang"- I dunno. I think next time you should try to be more structured and take some breaks to reflect and explain things, especially in the context of beginner mode. Huey was nice to have on, but I really thought it was going to be ground-up like beginner mode should be. I came in wanting ground-up learn Bang from nothing - the beginning - instead of "Figuring it out" like I have been trying to... I like that you sounded like me in netplay, though. Very funny. :P
Xie Posted February 17, 2012 Author Posted February 17, 2012 I feel you. Frankly, I think this format is largely a failure in terms of helping others. While I personally was able to learn plenty from the exercise, I don't feel as though much of the educational value could possibly be translated to viewers, especially since everyone watching will be at varying levels of cognitive process. Furthermore, there isn't a good place to really apply or review what you've seen, so this is another issue with this show. The reason I tried this format was to see if anything could be accomplished outside of the normal format I had worked with previously. Frankly, teaching a character in that format to a point where I consider "Basic" would take me close to 3-4 episodes. The preparation would also be ridiculous, as it always is, so I felt that it would not be efficient to attempt to do this and that this chunk of knowledge would be far better represented by a strict character tutorial. That said, I don't think it worked out, so I'm probably going to cancel this segment. I don't think there are solutions to the format, so I'm just going to scrap the idea in terms of it being an actual tutorial of any sort. I'll still probably stream the same shit I have planned out, but I'm not going to call it Beginner Mode.
Dont_Explain Posted February 17, 2012 Posted February 17, 2012 Maybe you could try to go through some of the important moves and tactics with the character so people have an idea of what to do in most situations. Like it doesn't have to be in depth with every move, but give good/common applications of the move. Maybe after showing some things then you can do some netplay to show off some of the moves in action.
zeth07 Posted February 17, 2012 Posted February 17, 2012 I feel you. Frankly, I think this format is largely a failure in terms of helping others. While I personally was able to learn plenty from the exercise, I don't feel as though much of the educational value could possibly be translated to viewers, especially since everyone watching will be at varying levels of cognitive process. Furthermore, there isn't a good place to really apply or review what you've seen, so this is another issue with this show. The reason I tried this format was to see if anything could be accomplished outside of the normal format I had worked with previously. Frankly, teaching a character in that format to a point where I consider "Basic" would take me close to 3-4 episodes. The preparation would also be ridiculous, as it always is, so I felt that it would not be efficient to attempt to do this and that this chunk of knowledge would be far better represented by a strict character tutorial. That said, I don't think it worked out, so I'm probably going to cancel this segment. I don't think there are solutions to the format, so I'm just going to scrap the idea in terms of it being an actual tutorial of any sort. I'll still probably stream the same shit I have planned out, but I'm not going to call it Beginner Mode. I don't think it was an issue when you were going over stuff in training mode, but since you were doing it on netplay and kept getting interrupted for matches it felt like the learning experience was taken away and it just became "watch Xie try to play Bang" instead of "Let's learn how to play Bang". If you would've just did it with strictly offline training mode and went over things as normal, I think it would've worked out fine.
Siefer Posted February 17, 2012 Posted February 17, 2012 Hey Xie, I just wanted to let you know that I've found your beginner series to be...quite interesting, although a little rocky initially. I think it's a great resource for beginner players and I've recommended it to anyone who was interested in either BlazBlue or fighting games in general (although only the first few episodes for the latter). I agree that your latest character experiments wasn't as helpful to others as it may have been for you. If you would like to focus it on beginners, you could try the following which I think would be helpful: -Spend the first 30-45 min (or however long you feel it's necessary) in training mode offline to go over the character. Normals you feel are worth mentioning, when to use them, general combos you'll be (attempting) on doing, why you're doing said combo and what you're getting out of it, your general game plan with the character, etc. etc. I think this is a good idea for yourself and the viewer because you can lay down what you think you know of the character now, and you can review it later on after your matches to see if your preconceptions matched actual match play, and how you adjusted to it. -At this point you can go online and challenge various people. You can save matches that caught your eye (for whatever reason), and go over them too in real-time and explain why you thought they were interesting, how it may have changed the way you approached a match-up (or your usage of the character), etc. I wouldn't go crazy over this though, and only focus on one, or a few aspects that caught your eye for the sake of getting back to play more matches. -I admittingly haven't watched the end of your Bang episode, so I don't know if you've already done this, but you can set aside some time at the end to go over what you've learned through these matches and how it's changed or added to what you already knew about the character. There are a few problems with this approach however, the most notable is that you'll be sacrificing time to go over things you may have already known yourself, and thus limiting what you can get out of a particular session with a character. Also, doing things this way increases the amount of structure and time you have to put in to prepare for each episode, which depending on your work load at the moment, or personal life, may not be feasible. Regardless, I'll be watching them anyway, and look forward to future episodes. I appreciate this service you're doing for the community.
Skye Posted February 18, 2012 Posted February 18, 2012 Really, it's better to simply let the respective character communities work out a tutorial video.
Airk Posted February 18, 2012 Posted February 18, 2012 Really, it's better to simply let the respective character communities work out a tutorial video. Because that worked out so well for CS2.
Kujikawa Posted February 18, 2012 Posted February 18, 2012 Is there anyway I can watch the episode back on Twitch? That's if your not planning to upload it to youtube.
Skye Posted February 18, 2012 Posted February 18, 2012 Because that worked out so well for CS2. It was held back because of the short time span between CS2 console release and CSE's announcement, it was a waste of time and effort to work so hard on a video guide when the next iteration was coming out in a matter of months and then have it suffer lack of interest and being outdated information. Everyone pretty much agreed to wait for CSE anyway, now CSE is here now and once we feel comfortable enough and can find the equipment, we can move forward.
Airk Posted February 19, 2012 Posted February 19, 2012 It was held back because of the short time span between CS2 console release and CSE's announcement, it was a waste of time and effort to work so hard on a video guide when the next iteration was coming out in a matter of months and then have it suffer lack of interest and being outdated information. Everyone pretty much agreed to wait for CSE anyway, now CSE is here now and once we feel comfortable enough and can find the equipment, we can move forward. Suuuuure. Because we're not going to get word of another version of before people get done with these videos...
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