Airk Posted January 12, 2013 Posted January 12, 2013 There's no restriction on having to do 2 hits off 623D. Getting 3 is the best damage, in CSEX too. Direct ~300 damage lost on whatever you might have done. Doing two hits on the 623D is the "easy" way to avoid mugen running out before the last hit of the dive aura so that you get the bonus proration in extend, but that only applies on a one charge mugen.
Errol Posted January 12, 2013 Posted January 12, 2013 I was taking all those into account. Like [4]6D then tackle instead of just tackle because the orb hits first. believe me i went over it a good number of times. Kiba and I were trying some combos and the calculator got a couple wrong. So I'm not really trusting i much as of right now. But I was expecting to take all these numbers with salt when I started anyhow. You were? But the numbers came up right for me. You're misunderstanding what I said to try ( I think). Those are two combos one doing special charge first and one doing special dive first, and special charge gets higher damage. All of the values and calculations are right. But if some hit doesn't hit for some reason in a video, then yeah, the numbers won't match up. You can still remove the hits to make it make sense though.
Surf Posted January 12, 2013 Posted January 12, 2013 22D > 6C > CT > Dash 5C > 2CC > IAD j.CC > 5C > 2C gave us different values within a video and within the calculator. Oh now I saw what you mean with the combo. I was thinking of Tackle after 3D's as well. It would be a good 2 charge Mugen combo. And it should work in corner or midscreen just fine.
Daedron Posted January 13, 2013 Posted January 13, 2013 D風>6C>CT>5C>2C>2CC>JC>JCC>5C>2C = 4347 damage. Same thing as in the video.
Surf Posted January 13, 2013 Posted January 13, 2013 Oh ok after all this time I see where the error was. Kiba mistook the 3 in the 4347 as an 8. for 4847. Dammit Kiba
Kiba Posted January 13, 2013 Posted January 13, 2013 Shoutouts to Surfeit putting the blame on me even though he posted the information and mistook it himself.
eQualz Posted January 13, 2013 Posted January 13, 2013 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPKD3vUblTg#t=19m15s After 6C, is that the animation when her command grab whiffs?
MikelAL93 Posted January 13, 2013 Posted January 13, 2013 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPKD3vUblTg#t=19m15s After 6C, is that the animation when her command grab whiffs? Yeah, that is the whiff animation for her command grab.
Errol Posted January 21, 2013 Posted January 21, 2013 Kazu had a short tweet about char matchups. Tough: Tager, Jin Somewhat Tough: Hazama, Litchi, Carl, Relius, Mu Bothersome: Taokaka, Hakumen Normal: Ragna, Nu, Others Lacking experience: Platinum, Makoto, Tsubaki
Kiba Posted January 21, 2013 Posted January 21, 2013 I'm not surprised Tager skyrocketed to being of the tougher matches, but I'm not sure why Jin is there. Would like to know his exp against the 4 other chars (Azrael, Bullet, Amane, Izayoi).
FatalCounter Posted January 21, 2013 Posted January 21, 2013 Kazu had a short tweet about char matchups. Tough: Tager, Jin Somewhat Tough: Hazama, Litchi, Carl, Relius, Mu Bothersome: Taokaka, Hakumen Normal: Ragna, Nu, Others Lacking experience: Platinum, Makoto, Tsubaki This strictly depends on people he or she plays against. I mean if I get bodied everyday by a Ragna player for example, I will think he is a though matchup for my character. If I beat a Jin player consistently, I will say he is a given for me. Sometimes this is really personnal and depends on the way anyone plays a char. I remenber a tournament in North West, Seattle maybe. Dacidbro and Huey playing the same character; Bang but the way they play is really different. A Relius player beat Dacid so bad but couldn't even win a match vs Huey. Skills!!!!
Errol Posted January 21, 2013 Posted January 21, 2013 fwiw Kuresu said it felt the same to him, except for Tager, but he doesn't play vs Tager much. and Konan has a 30% win rate against Jin
Kiba Posted January 21, 2013 Posted January 21, 2013 I guess I won't know until I touch the game myself. I must retract.
Surf Posted January 21, 2013 Posted January 21, 2013 Lose of knockdown on standing hit from 22B hurts the Tager matchup for us a ton. Imo the 22x series was the most important tool in the Tager matchup. We have to rely on 22D to knock him down now. Plus no more unblockable. As if i didnt hate this matchup enough already
pktazn Posted January 22, 2013 Author Posted January 22, 2013 (edited) Jin is really strong this iteration so I'm not surprised he says he's having trouble with him. Not surprised with his lack of matches against Platinum, Makoto and Tsubaki if the acho videos are anything to go by since they don't appear often, especially Makoto and Tsubaki. But like Fatal said, it also depends on who he's playing against as well. It looks close to what I've been thinking watching matches (except for Hakumen at times) but since it's not me playing I can't say much more than that. Edited January 22, 2013 by pktazn
Daedron Posted January 22, 2013 Posted January 22, 2013 Not surprised at the Tager matchup, try playing the Tager matchup in Extend without 22x series, it's heavily in his favour already in that case :V
Surf Posted January 26, 2013 Posted January 26, 2013 I have a question regarding charge canceling. Her 5/2D behave differently when their used to cancel certain normals right. I know they give more charge than usual, but are the startup/active/recovery frames shorter as well. If i knew the exact numbers it would help since im experimenting with a few things.
Errol Posted January 26, 2013 Posted January 26, 2013 Not as far as I know. The numbers are in the frame data. the important one is 18f minimum recovery. The next important one is that 2d charge cancels are strictly worse than 5d charge cancels (if you just go for minimum length).
Surf Posted January 27, 2013 Posted January 27, 2013 Thanks. Ill experiment with the numbers a bit and post my findings or ask some additonal questions tonight maybe
Airk Posted January 27, 2013 Posted January 27, 2013 Errol is correct as far as all the information we have goes. The only difference between charge cancel 5D/2D and normal 5D/2D is that you get a bit more charge for the "charge cancel tap" than you would if you just tapped the button at neutral. Since both 5D and 2D have the same 18frame minimum duration, that means they give exactly the same frame advantage, but 5D gives more charge. Another dubiously designed system. You'd think they could've gone for "5D gives more charge, but 2D gives better frame advantage" or something, but then I suppose they'd do that by making the frame advantage on 5D worse and leaving 2D the same. :P
Surf Posted January 27, 2013 Posted January 27, 2013 (edited) Ok. As I've always been meaning to know the exact numbers and benefits from charge canceling I went through some frame data and got these numbers. These numbers are all under the condition that - The opponent is normal blocking on the ground (No Barrier/IB) - Your charge cancelling as early as possible (After the first active frame) - Your charge cancelling with 5D and simply tapping it, no holding down Ill be labeling how - the moves usually are without charge cancelling them labeling then with charge cancelling. And for the hell of it I've added on hit too, with S being standing and C being crouching. Ill be going through all charge cancelable normals. 5A = -2 D.5A = -9 S = -9 C = -6 2A = 0 D.2A = -8 S = -7 C = -5 5B = -5 D.5B = -2 S = -1 C = +1 5BB = -5 D.5BB = -2 S = -1 C = +1 2B = -1 D.2B = -5 S = -4 C = -2 2BB = -7 D.2BB = -5 S = -4 C = -2 5C = -9 D.5C = -2 S = -1 C = +1 5CC = -11 D.5CC = 0 S = +1 C = +3 Possible CP air normal numbers. Take these with some salt D.jA = -4 S = -3 C = -1 D.jB = -2 S = -1 C = +1 D.jBB = -2 S = -1 C = +1 D.jC = +1 S = +2 C = +4 D.jCC = +1 S = +2 C +4 Edited January 27, 2013 by Surf
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