Airk Posted November 8, 2013 Posted November 8, 2013 That's hilarious, that means that all this time I've caught hundreds of opponents on what I thought was "roll recovery", they were just mashing something during what was their block-only state. Heh. Yup. Though I could have sworn at one point some kind of tech option had a section that was "cancellable into barrier" but I can't find any trace of that on any of the older Wiki entries, so maybe I'm just going insane.
Tsubaki 5B Posted November 9, 2013 Posted November 9, 2013 just thought i'd say this after you do 5BB>5CC>236B>214B you can run and do a 2B and you'll slide under them as there teching and you can go into a command grab thought it be helpful since i was having a lot of success with it in matches for reference in the tsubaki tricks and gimmicks video
Airk Posted November 9, 2013 Posted November 9, 2013 just thought i'd say this after you do 5BB>5CC>236B>214B you can run and do a 2B and you'll slide under them as there teching and you can go into a command grab thought it be helpful since i was having a lot of success with it in matches for reference in the tsubaki tricks and gimmicks video Is it feasible to NOT cross up sometimes? Because otherwise, ending without the 22B will be a clear giveaway that 'hey, a crossup is coming'.
C0R Posted November 9, 2013 Posted November 9, 2013 Is it feasible to NOT cross up sometimes? Because otherwise, ending without the 22B will be a clear giveaway that 'hey, a crossup is coming'. For almost every crossunder mixup you can just do it late/early and miss the crossunder window to avoid it actually occurring.
KingChefIvan Posted November 11, 2013 Posted November 11, 2013 I haven't had much time to play around with this, but if you combo into air hit 214B>22B(whiff) You can get some charge while they're in the air and get a mixup in when they land.
Errol Posted November 11, 2013 Posted November 11, 2013 noticing more that kuresu isn't going for 22b enders and stopping at 214b against people he doesn't want to let get away. knockdown nerf FTL.
huey253 Posted November 14, 2013 Posted November 14, 2013 I thought of a cool (but useless) way to set up fuzzy guard jC. The problem with it is that it requires them to guess your jumpin choice incorrectly to set it up. Option 1: jB(wiff)B Option 2: jB(wiff)jC(startup canceled by landing) 5B Using the fact that Option 1 and Option have similar timings, the setup is supposed to trick your opponent into blocking Option 2 standing (want to use Option A for conditioning) so that you can land from jC wiff and do 5B. If they block 5B standing, you have the chance to go for 2B or rising jC (which requires 50 heat to combo off). The reason why this setup isn't good/solid is that it requires your opponent to block a mid attack standing. The reason why the setup "works' is that your jump in timing for Option 1 is similar to Option 2 with 5B being the move that they block standing instead of an expected jBB or jC(you can see the startup). It wasn't really noteworthy or anything, but someone recommended that I try to post anything.
Errol Posted November 14, 2013 Posted November 14, 2013 I don't know if you can fuzzy with j.C. it was straight up too slow in EX to be possible, but there was j.B. If you were trying to fuzzy off j.C (which would be reasonably solid), i'd say it's not gonna be stable enough to work. off a 5b it might work but yeah, fuzzy off a mid is eh. thanks huey.
TheGreatReptar Posted November 14, 2013 Posted November 14, 2013 J.C is definitely fuzziable now. You can also do 6A(blocked)>RC>j.C, although confirmed the person blocked 6A instead of eating it is kind of not doable. I guess you can just be painfully predictable in your mixups and get the person to start blocking 6A correctly a lot, but it's probably too much work. Also off of fuzzy j.C, you can do j.CC>j.214D in the corner on some characters.
Zouf Posted November 15, 2013 Posted November 15, 2013 I didn't find it on the wiki so here the frame advantages of our charge cancels : 5A > 5D = -9 2A > 5D = -9 5B > 5D = -2 2B > 5D = -5 5BB > 5D = -5 2BB > 5D = -5 5C > 5D = -2 5CC > 5D = +0 Don't know if it has changed from Extend
BatousaiJ Posted November 15, 2013 Posted November 15, 2013 While it's clearly apparent that charge canceling is best after 5CC, I highly, highly recommend you also charge cancel often after 5C and 5B(especially) and mix up using all three along with late gatling into 5B(B)/5C© to catch people trying to up-back or mash out a DP. Catching someone off mashing with 5C|blocked|C CH is especially rewarding since you can go directly into 6C/6CC for very nice damage. 5C|blocked|C CH > 6C etc etc including Mugen or just a few charges is excellent damage so it's up to you to keep people honest and holding that block lest they pay the price.
Airk Posted November 15, 2013 Posted November 15, 2013 I didn't find it on the wiki so here the frame advantages of our charge cancels : 5A > 5D = -9 2A > 5D = -9 5B > 5D = -2 2B > 5D = -5 5BB > 5D = -5 2BB > 5D = -5 5C > 5D = -2 5CC > 5D = +0 Don't know if it has changed from Extend 5BB is worse now because they lowered the attack level from 3 to 2. (WHHYYYY?) so it's no longer really a valid charge cancel point, whereas in was in extend.
Errol Posted November 15, 2013 Posted November 15, 2013 i think they lowered the attack level to keep it from pushing you out too much on block or barrier.
Zouf Posted November 15, 2013 Posted November 15, 2013 To be honest i didn't think 5CC > 5D was +0, because i keep getting countered after it if i try to pressure. I guess i should just mash 5B after this to get a counter and 6C
Airk Posted November 15, 2013 Posted November 15, 2013 i think they lowered the attack level to keep it from pushing you out too much on block or barrier. But they already made the range shorter, which meant that anything you do afterwards is already probably closer than it was in EX, just by necessity. Lowering the attack level without giving us a custom amount of blockstun is still a nerf. To be honest i didn't think 5CC > 5D was +0, because i keep getting countered after it if i try to pressure. I guess i should just mash 5B after this to get a counter and 6C It's been +0 since forever (in fact, I think it might've been +0 in CS1.). 5C used to be +0 as well, but it lost an attack level when it got faster for Extend. I don't actually suggest 5CC > 5D > 5B - this will ALWAYS lose to mash jab and is generally slower than doing 5CC > 5D > 5C, which also leads into better reward if you can CH with it. 5A is safest if you want to restart pressure (unless you're a long way off). 5B is... well, honestly, it's slow. I won't go for it unless you've really been pushed out.
Errol Posted November 15, 2013 Posted November 15, 2013 5cc has strong pushback in CP. you ARE pushed out if you do 5ccd. 5b and 5c can eat jab mashing from out of range.
Zouf Posted November 15, 2013 Posted November 15, 2013 As Errol say, 5CC will push the opponent far away, so basically the only option to keep pressure is 5B (or any dash attack, but they always lose anyway, so it's not really an option). But i'm also hesitant to use 5B. It's slow, and our hitbox (or hurtbox) is really moved forward, and can be bettered by a lot of moves.
Errol Posted November 15, 2013 Posted November 15, 2013 yeah, I guess I should say, don't use 5b there, it's really not a good idea. many characters that will want to mash out will low profile your 5b automagically. 5c is a better bet. but there's always also jumping.
Kiba Posted November 16, 2013 Posted November 16, 2013 I thought of a cool (but useless) way to set up fuzzy guard jC. The problem with it is that it requires them to guess your jumpin choice incorrectly to set it up. Option 1: jB(wiff)B Option 2: jB(wiff)jC(startup canceled by landing) 5B Using the fact that Option 1 and Option have similar timings, the setup is supposed to trick your opponent into blocking Option 2 standing (want to use Option A for conditioning) so that you can land from jC wiff and do 5B. If they block 5B standing, you have the chance to go for 2B or rising jC (which requires 50 heat to combo off). The reason why this setup isn't good/solid is that it requires your opponent to block a mid attack standing. The reason why the setup "works' is that your jump in timing for Option 1 is similar to Option 2 with 5B being the move that they block standing instead of an expected jBB or jC(you can see the startup). It wasn't really noteworthy or anything, but someone recommended that I try to post anything. It's something to take note of though! Granted it's not the best option but it's interesting. Thanks for posting Huey! I didn't find it on the wiki so here the frame advantages of our charge cancels : 5A > 5D = -9 2A > 5D = -9 5B > 5D = -2 2B > 5D = -5 5BB > 5D = -5 2BB > 5D = -5 5C > 5D = -2 5CC > 5D = +0 Don't know if it has changed from Extend Thanks for that! Also I agree with Errol in advising against the use of 5CC > CC > 5B. You will get poked out, and you can even get poked out of 5CC > CC > micro dash 5A. USUALLY when I charge cancel 5CC I just hold block or back off. 5C > CC > Stuff is better.
Airk Posted November 16, 2013 Posted November 16, 2013 Thanks for that! Also I agree with Errol in advising against the use of 5CC > CC > 5B. You will get poked out, and you can even get poked out of 5CC > CC > micro dash 5A. USUALLY when I charge cancel 5CC I just hold block or back off. 5C > CC > Stuff is better. I really don't understand this; Yes, you can lose to a lot of stuff from 5CC > CC, but all that same stuff wins against 5C > CC. Why is one a good idea and the other not? They have basically the same number of followup options (1 gatling, special cancels) and one is -2 while the other is even?
Kiba Posted November 16, 2013 Posted November 16, 2013 (edited) The same stuff can win against 5C > CC, but you're closer. You have a higher success rather rate of using stuff like 5C > CC > Command grab/kara throw. It's about conditioning too, I don't get a lot of people poking me out of 5C > CC stuff if I'm fast enough but they try to jump out or poke me when I do 5CC > CC. Also remember you can do 5C > 6C, whereas you only have 6B followup after 5CC. Edited November 16, 2013 by Kiba
Airk Posted November 16, 2013 Posted November 16, 2013 The same stuff can win against 5C > CC, but you're closer. You have a higher success rather rate of using stuff like 5C > CC > Command grab/kara throw. It's about conditioning too, I don't get a lot of people poking me out of 5C > CC stuff if I'm fast enough but they try to jump out or poke me when I do 5CC > CC. Closer makes sense, I guess. But why would they be trying to jump/poke out of 5CC > CC when 5CC > 6B beats both for pretty good reward now? Also remember you can do 5C > 6C, whereas you only have 6B followup after 5CC. I'll be honest, I've never found much use for 6C in blockstrings. =/
Errol Posted November 16, 2013 Posted November 16, 2013 ib'ing 5cc guarantees a lot of stuff that is not guaranteed off 5c because of the existence of 5cc
Airk Posted November 16, 2013 Posted November 16, 2013 ib'ing 5cc guarantees a lot of stuff that is not guaranteed off 5c because of the existence of 5cc That makes sense, thanks.
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