[CP1.1] Tsubaki Yayoi General - Gameplay Discussion

[Rhiya]

Bat's diagram is about right.

Had my DP jumped so many times I could cry.

[pktazn]

Since everyone is wondering about the hitbox for her DP... I decided to look to see if they did do a hitbox for it since I forgot they may have split it for some reason (some of her sword movements were with her already, like 22D it's two separate images but they were put together, so I thought maybe they just didn't have it) and found it. I doubt they'll change the frame data picture now, so sorry about missing it the first time through since I was the one who worked on it, but here you guys go. I had to put them together and rotate the sword myself so it might not be entirely accurate.

Things I noticed while continuously doing her DPs to get as accurate a picture as I could: The D version actually combines all three of her other versions into it (sword-wise). C sword comes out first, then B, then A and follow one after another and the C hit will disappear first, then B, then A. It's not exactly simultaneous. This is why Ragna could grab Tsubaki out of it in the video Kiba linked. He was close enough that the C version didn't hit and was fast enough to CH grab her before the B sword hit. It's the aforementioned dead zone.

The A, B, C version swords actually very slightly come out of different areas on the ground. A version sword seems to come out more forward than B, B seems to come out a little closer to Tsu, and C is in the middle of them. It's a really small margin though of how far away they're spaced, so I only tried to show it in the D version of the move.

A, B, C Ver (basically):

D ver. (VERY roughly done. I'm pretty sure the hitbox for each one begins once it's coming off the ground but it's hard to replicate that with what I have, so I tried to at least show the general idea of where it'll end, the spacing between them, and the direction *they'll all end up following where the C sword goes direction-wise* ;_______; ) :

1 = Comes out/disappears first

2 = Comes out/disappears second

3 = Comes out/disappears third

Sorry again since it's not exactly accurate.

Edited December 16, 2011 by pktazn

[Iza]

Tbh I still don't really understand what other people mean by Tsubaki having the worst DP in the game,

while I do get the feeling it is a bad DP but Ive just never got a proper explanation to "why it is the worst DP" (when compared to others)

and even looking at the past few pages i still can't clear this up

EDIT: Beautiful diagrams pk :3

[Daedron]

Pretty simple, and I'm going to be using the A version as the example here:

1. The invis lasts up till 1 frame before the active frames, this means you can be HIT OUT OF THE STARTUP, which is in many cases pretty bad depending on what move you traded with.

Compare it to Inferno Divider or Litchi's Tsubami Guishi (lol spelling), their invis both lasts beyond the startup meaning it will never trade with any normal non-invis move.

2.The hitbox is kind of shitty so compared to Inferno Divider you'll actually completely whiff it at times, which is to be honest even worse than it getting blocked.

3.It's a freaking projectile.

The D version isn't a projectile and the invis is 1 frame longer, but even the D version manages to trade a lot since again, the invis doesn't last past the startup...well at least with charges available the D DP can be used to deal a semi-damaging combo.

And one positive thing about Tsubaki's DP is that you can make it safe by using charges though, aka j.236D - j.214D, something other characters have to use heat for.

[Errol]

You're not really looking for damage on a DP, but at least in cs2, Tsubaki's DP does like 600 damage. Litchi's does like 1700.

frankly, Looking at that other video, I'm kinda curious. Because I'm thinking that you might be able ot totally disrespect tsubaki's DP on wakeup just by running at her.. provided she isn't in the corner, which is a bad enough situation anyway.

[Iza]

thank you daed, im still not sure what active frames are despite how long i played this game, but I now see how this fits to "worst DP"

[Errol]

thank you daed, im still not sure what active frames are despite how long i played this game, but I now see how this fits to "worst DP"

active frames meaning when the hitbox comes out. Like playing against ragna, his 5b has a whopping 8 active frames. So if he does that on your wake up, it's most likely going to trade (basically even trade). IIRC he also recovers faster than you, so if you did this in the corner, you didn't even get him off you... and you took the same damage as him..

And I just want to say, those are some nice phallic images you made pk.

[BeaverDeity]

I've airgrabbed Tsubaki out of her DP before. That's how bad it is.

[Eshi]

I love when people jump over my head while I whiff a DP and then j214D immediately autocorrects into their face, lol. I <3 tsubaki's shitty reversals.

[Daedron]

Uh, in one of the videos PK posted of pet(Tager) vs Kuresu. Kuresu uses 22D against tager who blocks it, looking at it closely it seems Tager can act before or at the same time as Tsubaki

Now of course it's kind of hard to say this without frame data but if Kuresu went into crouching block after 22D and still got hit by Tager's 5A...then I dunno what to say to that >.>

Of course he could have also gone for a 2A...but then that still means 22D isn't +3 on block anymore...or something else entirely happened.

[Airk]

Uh, in one of the videos PK posted of pet(Tager) vs Kuresu. Kuresu uses 22D against tager who blocks it, looking at it closely it seems Tager can act before or at the same time as Tsubaki

Now of course it's kind of hard to say this without frame data but if Kuresu went into crouching block after 22D and still got hit by Tager's 5A...then I dunno what to say to that >.>

Of course he could have also gone for a 2A...but then that still means 22D isn't +3 on block anymore...or something else entirely happened.

Of course it's not. Moves that leave you plus give you a chance in hell of resetting your pressure after your opponent breaks away by holding A+B for like, 3 whole seconds. And we can't have that, now can we? After they fought so hard and all.

/cynicism

[Kiba]

Thank you for the diagram + explanation PK. Extremely useful stuff.

Edited December 16, 2011 by Kiba

[shad0whiei]

I'm not sure the frame data for ex tsubaki is going to be the same for the dp. When I played dp a didn't trade very often against Ragna or other characters really compared to cs2. B seemed to trade the same and I didn't really do C outside of trying (and failing) at dp whiff combos so I duno about that one.

PS: Sexy example PK ^^ better than I could do XD

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

[pktazn]

\

frankly, Looking at that other video, I'm kinda curious. Because I'm thinking that you might be able ot totally disrespect tsubaki's DP on wakeup just by running at her.. provided she isn't in the corner, which is a bad enough situation anyway.

You can, even in the corner. I watched it happen twice against a Relius. The Tsubaki used A DP on wake-up and the Relius dashed, so that he avoided it. Honestly, it doesn't surprise me now that I've noticed her A DP is further away from her compared to her B and C versions. You could clearly see that there was no way that A DP was going to hit him sadly

I think it may also be a matter of hitbox but it's still pretty sad.

EDIT: Actually, he dashed and jumped. My bad. Not any better but he wasn't just running at her. And I'm glad you guys liked my poorly made diagrams haha.

Edited December 16, 2011 by pktazn

[Rhiya]

Hey, they were informative.

Don't hate on those godlike diagrams.

[Star-Demon]

Shoutout to Diospyro for standing up to DacidBro. You train yourself up, because you were hype as hell, even though you lost.

Someone train this woman up! She deserves it!

[diospyros]

Star-Demon

Shoutout to Diospyro for standing up to DacidBro. You train yourself up, because you were hype as hell, even though you lost.

Someone train this woman up! She deserves it

Why thank you good sir. DacidBro was very casual and cool along with Sanoshi. It's not that I couldn't do any of combos...it's just that I couldn't hear the cues. I was doing fairly well against Dacid during casuals for three straight hours, and when people came, I could not hear the button inputs. On SCR, it was a huge ballroom with so many overeager nerds like myself. They had SC5(looks very pretty), 3 cabinets for TTT2, and Marvel fullscreen. I tried to play EX but two people were hogging the TV. I came because I wanted to experience what a tourney was like, and it was awesome.

[Kiba]

I'm glad to hear you had fun Dio. You should've booted the players on the EX TV tbh.

Will there be any videos of you playing?

3 cabinets for TTT2

The desire for this game is too strong....

[diospyros]

There's actually a video of me playing against another Bang on Xiei's stream (it's the one with the red Bang). I thought the previous casuals against Dacid's Bang, Tager, Hazama, and Ragna were recorded, but I guess they're not there 0_0. I think there was one main match recorded on the main SCR stream from 10:00 to 11:45 am PST. Also, I almost forgot about Shadowfiend's commentary and the hype party posse... that kind of hype should be mandatory on every stream.

EDIT

Here it is...

http://www.twitch.tv/xiei/b/302875133

It's extremely choppy for being a past record.

Edited December 18, 2011 by diospyros

[Kiba]

I remember when I first played you, and now I've watch you play in those casuals. I can honestly see how much you've improved and that's fantastic. Great stuff. I liked the 2B - unblockable reset.

Please keep it up.

[shad0whiei]

So some guys I played with last night said their copies of ex rolled in last night. So hopefully well see alot of stuff soon. Sadly I can't afford to import it so I'm looking at the arcade occasionally till Valentine's day lol.

And 214B lack of invincible is apparent. And kills alot of CH traps I'm used to playing. Need to find a new punish.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

[diospyros]

I remember when I first played you, and now I've watch you play in those casuals. I can honestly see how much you've improved and that's fantastic. Great stuff. I liked the 2B - unblockable reset.

Please keep it up.

Thanks. I hope I can make it to more tournies.

So some guys I played with last night said their copies of ex rolled in last night. So hopefully well see alot of stuff soon. Sadly I can't afford to import it so I'm looking at the arcade occasionally till Valentine's day lol.

And 214B lack of invincible is apparent. And kills alot of CH traps I'm used to playing. Need to find a new punish.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

I thought the lack of invincibility for 214B was always like that for CS2. Do you mean 214x in general when catching opponents doing air normals?

[Kiba]

MashThat5A kindly uploaded EX Tsubaki's Challenge Combos

Edited December 19, 2011 by Kiba

[MashThat5A]

MashThat5A kindly uploaded EX Tsubaki's Challenge combos

Not gonna lie, I got really sad when I was recording that.

[Kiba]

To be honest, I dunno how I feel about it.

The 3C FC combo was nice.

I am also happy we can do 6A FC - 5CC - 6C. Glad we got that confirmed as I felt we couldn't do that.

Thank you for it though!

Edited December 19, 2011 by Kiba