Rhiya Posted December 19, 2011 Posted December 19, 2011 Oh dear. Looks like we're all gonna be hitting training mode hard tomorrow = /
pktazn Posted December 19, 2011 Author Posted December 19, 2011 Hmmm... I'm not really surprised. If I had to be honest, Tsubaki has always had the most boring of challenges. I usually just use them as a way to get some ideas. 9/10 when I go into challege mode, I just start messing around as if it were training mode. I got a few ideas watching it actually but it doesn't matter seeing as how I'm waiting till Feb to get it myself, so I'm sure someone will already test what I was thinking of before then haha.
BatousaiJ Posted December 19, 2011 Posted December 19, 2011 Very non-efficient combos showcased on the challenge combos wasting charges left and right. It seemed to want to show off how much charge you get by just holding down j.D for the full duration down after a air combo(j.214C ender) but that's suicide and every Tsu player knows that. I wasn't expecting much from the challenge combos but I had hoped they'd at least throw in a nice air mugen combo for me to try. Ah well~ I'll have my copy in a few hours and I'll make better stuff in no time. I am also happy we can do 6A FC - 5CC - 6C. Glad we got that confirmed as I felt we couldn't do that. I thought someone had confirmed that we couldn't do that so that's a nice surprise. It's be incredibly easy to hit confirm 6A FC > 5CC > 6C since you have all of 5CC to think about it =d.
Daedron Posted December 19, 2011 Posted December 19, 2011 Dec 19, 2011 9:47 AM Op FedEx-voertuig voor bezorging VELDHOVEN NL "On FedEx-vehicle for delivery." Fuck yeah
LunarSelenia Posted December 19, 2011 Posted December 19, 2011 That was hard to watch X___X it is 1:20AM here and it went through Customs at 2:20PM yesterday...it'll probably be here at our doorstep tomorrow =3 (After that it's time to hit training mode >.<;; )
CrescentSaber Posted December 19, 2011 Posted December 19, 2011 Doesn't seem all that different from her challenge mode in CS2 to be honest save for a few differences in some combos. I must admit though that the last couple of combos looked pretty nice. But I too was hoping for one that showed off aerial Macto Maledictis. Oh well. Still nice too get a taste of what we'll be working with in Extend.
Daedron Posted December 19, 2011 Posted December 19, 2011 Alright, so I've had EX for a few hours now and I've mainly been messing around with regards to framedata. This is what I've found so far: 5B is -5 236C is -13 at close range and -3 at max range, no longer can we use it to safely approach characters. 214D is -6 22D is -5 236D is -4 or -5 5A > 5C > 2D > 5C is not a tight blockstring (something I believed before actually), you get counterhit out of the startup of the 2nd 5C pretty early so it's safe to say that most character's 5B's will counterhit you, at least you can block after 2D. 5C startup seems to be about 7 frames. Max combo damage for EX Tsu seems to be the same as CS2, but average damage is lower in a lot of cases. Mugen doesn't seem that effective still..but who knows.
Rhiya Posted December 19, 2011 Posted December 19, 2011 5B is -5 236C is -13 at close range and -3 at max range, no longer can we use it to safely approach characters. 214D is -6 22D is -5 236D is -4 or -5 ... You fucking serious
Daedron Posted December 19, 2011 Posted December 19, 2011 (edited) How'd you calculate the frame data? I put Tsubaki as the training dummy and then I pick another character, in most cases I used Ragna. You input your move and record it with the dummy like 5B then immediately go into crouching block. then you start the recording, block it with your character and then see if you can punish it before the dummy goes into crouching block. In any case, for example 5B - 5B has such a huge gap you can use 2C with Ragna and fatal Tsubaki, it's pretty hilarious. If you use 236D against another Tsubaki and you try to input another move that other Tsubaki can 5C counterhit you etc. So yeah...have fun lol EDIT: Just broke the 8K damage mark, 6C counterhit into mugen into combo into 236236D super = 8K xD Edited December 19, 2011 by Daedron
BatousaiJ Posted December 19, 2011 Posted December 19, 2011 How do you count the exact frames number like that though? Anyhow, I'm not sure about how to calculate frames data properly and since the console version is out, I reckon we'll have the data sooner than later. I've been mostly looking for go-to combos for common starters using various amount of charges. Mugen is pretty good, especially to push out mid screen damage that can go over 4k even with only 1-2 charges. Hit confirming j.C and IAD stuff into Air Mugen should actually be practical in the corner as well.
Daedron Posted December 19, 2011 Posted December 19, 2011 Just did a 8.4K combo using 5 charge mugen... Seems Max damage is better than CS2 after all lol Requires a starter of 6CC though, but still...with 1 charge mugen the combo still does close to 5/5.5K And you count the exact frames by switching characters, so like if you block something from Tsubaki and the move you can hit her with after blocking is 10 frames startup, then you go and pick a character that has a move that has an 11 frame startup and you keep going up until Tsubaki can block, that's how you find out how much - a move is on block. Or +...but from what I can see so far there are no moves that are + on block anymore (well..except j.236D - j.214D)
Rhiya Posted December 19, 2011 Posted December 19, 2011 How do you count the exact frames number like that though? You change the punishing move (moving from a 5-frame move to a 6-frame move to a 7-frame move and so on) until it can't punish anymore. Or +...but from what I can see so far there are no moves that are + on block anymore (well..except j.236D - j.214D) Neither 22C nor 6B are plus, then?
Daedron Posted December 19, 2011 Posted December 19, 2011 You change the punishing move (moving from a 5-frame move to a 6-frame move to a 7-frame move and so on) until it can't punish anymore. Neither 22C nor 6B are plus, then? 22C is definately not...I actually haven't used 6B yet...hold on lol I am actually streaming right now for anyone who's interested by the way, easier to talk too: www.justin.tv/daedron
BatousaiJ Posted December 19, 2011 Posted December 19, 2011 Who has 1-4 frame moves to test with though? And ya, 8k is easily breakable with 5 charge mugen now. My biggest concern right now outside of the normal nerfs is that our max damage with no charges went from 2.8 - 3.2k to 1.9 - 2.4k and one charge combos aren't packing much of a punch either that I can see thus far. I'm going to have to start testing out some BnB stuff to see how effective they are in real match settings starting tomorrow or the day after. Should be interesting.
Daedron Posted December 19, 2011 Posted December 19, 2011 (edited) Neither 22C nor 6B are plus, then? Okay, 6B is still +1 like in CS2. or at least + on block, probably 1 though. I tried out 6B - 5B and 6B - 5C as blockstrings. 6B - 5B = Ragna can counterhit Tsubaki with 5B, though I believe this was the case in CS2 as well + 5B is slower 6B - 5C = Ragna gets counterhit if he tries 5B, though 2A will obviously punish Tsubaki. EDIT: Highest damage I've done so far is 8606...anyone got higher? XD EDIT2: New max: 8789 Edited December 19, 2011 by Daedron
Daedron Posted December 19, 2011 Posted December 19, 2011 Just broke all the records: 9855... Try to beat it if you can ;p Yes it uses 2 gold bursts.
Airk Posted December 19, 2011 Posted December 19, 2011 So I was watching Xie's stream the other night, and complaining about Tsubaki, and he said that someone had discovered that you could use Air Mugen as...er.. a sortof anti-anti-air or something. I'm not sure what was meant, but the wording was pretty close to: "If you jump in on someone, and they anti air, then you can do air mugen into dive and it's like 100proration starter" or something fairly close to that. Can anyone figure out what is meant here? Maybe blocking an anti-air > air mugen > j.214D > stuff (probably 236D)? Also discussed was 22D unblockable > 3CC > RC > stuff to get the bonus prorate from 3CC. That frame data makes me SUPER SAD though. Like, heartbroken kind of sad. Like, no combo you guys can come up with will make me happy kind of sad, because our neutral game looks so terrible right now. ;_;
pktazn Posted December 19, 2011 Author Posted December 19, 2011 I'd say we wait for the frame data book before despairing over it... Not to say that it might not be true, and it might be easy to tell for certain moves but I'd rather wait for the mook.
Velvien Posted December 19, 2011 Posted December 19, 2011 The air mugen thing sounds nice. The frame data, though...blargh.
BatousaiJ Posted December 19, 2011 Posted December 19, 2011 (edited) I'd say we wait for the frame data book before despairing over it... Not to say that it might not be true, and it might be easy to tell for certain moves but I'd rather wait for the mook. ^ This. Also, I have reason to believe the second hit of 5CC greater hitstun than before. Same thing with the second hit of j.CC. You can easily (vs grounded enemy) IAD j.CC > 5CC without any issue. Also. Ladies and gentlemen- our new max damage is 10482. Please welcome Tsubaki into the 10k+ club. I could probably do more... shout outs to day 1 combos. Edit- The more and more I mess around with Tsu, I can see that her damage output is more tied to her meter. Not quite as dependent on meter as she is charge but it's getting there. A 2 charge mugen combo off a 5C starter mid screen can net you 5.5k+ with ease which is some of the highest mid screen damage I've seen in extend. Pressure, block string and footsie is going to take a different approach to be successful than what we're used to from CS 2 and that's probably going to take the most amount of time to get adjusted to. Edited December 19, 2011 by BatousaiJ
Rhiya Posted December 19, 2011 Posted December 19, 2011 Guys, I'm getting more damage off 5a>5bb>2bb>5cc>236xx than doing it without the 5a. So, uh... 5a has a better p1 than CS2?
TheGreatReptar Posted December 19, 2011 Posted December 19, 2011 I think jabs were given higher damage for pretty much everyone in CSEX. Might just be that.
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