Daedron Posted December 19, 2011 Posted December 19, 2011 http://www40.atwiki.jp/tsubakiyayoi/pages/111.html Some framedata has been added to the Japanese Tsubaki wiki, the values I posted last page were pretty close to what the official data is. 5B is indeed -5 236C is indeed -13 236D is indeed -4 22D is -7 instead of -5 like I thought (ouch?) 214D is -7 instead of -6 like I thought. Rest of the values are still missing, but it honestly doesn't matter much, pretty much everything except 6B is - on block and we can no longer use our D moves to make ourselves safe except for j.236D - j.214D...
pktazn Posted December 19, 2011 Author Posted December 19, 2011 Tsubaki has finally joined the 10k club? Mmmm... I don't want to be a negative nancy on the frame data but I'd like to know their source and how they got it.
pktazn Posted December 19, 2011 Author Posted December 19, 2011 (edited) Most likely if the values are close. Again I'd rather wait for the mook, so that's what I'll do, but hey if that ends up being what's in it then I'll just go "Oh ok" and you can all laugh at me or something. Thanks for finding it on her wiki and for figuring it yourself considering you didn't have to Dae. :D Edited December 19, 2011 by pktazn
BatousaiJ Posted December 19, 2011 Posted December 19, 2011 Some of those figures look... off. At least from the feel that I've been getting from the game. Our neutral game is going to be quite a pain to deal with though and we're most likely going to have to fight at a closer range to be comfortable over the mid-range that we did well in CS 2.
Airk Posted December 20, 2011 Posted December 20, 2011 Our neutral game is going to be quite a pain to deal with though and we're most likely going to have to fight at a closer range to be comfortable over the mid-range that we did well in CS 2. Not really sure how being closer will help considering everything is at least -1. We don't even really have a "dead spike" equivalent with slow startup that leaves us there, unless you count 6B, which is... okay. And I think staying in that close comfort range is going to be really awkward with the changes to barrier pushback. =/ I'm waiting for the mook too, but all this is mostly just shaking out pretty much the way I was worried about. =/ I don't understand why they would do all this. =/
Star-Demon Posted December 20, 2011 Posted December 20, 2011 Guys, I know you wanna say "Tsubakigen is awesome", but let's face it, we're picking up change in a parking lot.
BatousaiJ Posted December 20, 2011 Posted December 20, 2011 Round and a round... and a round.... Guys, I know you wanna say "Tsubakigen is awesome", but let's face it, we're picking up change in a parking lot. What? On a more related note, I took some time to play against some people tonight in netplay. Netcode feels about the same as CS 2, maybe a tab bit better since I didn't notice any spikes and the timing for stuff I was doing in training mode seems to be about right when I was doing them in matches. Having played some matches, I was able to do some new combos and found myself doing a lotttttttttt of air charging which is something I expected. With smart use of j.214x and j.236D and etc I was able to avoid getting punished for it too much which is good. The thing that I'm having the most trouble with thus far is a solid plan of approach. Trying not to use 5B the way I taught myself to in CS 2 and building/teaching myself a different style of neutral game is going to take a bit of time.
Errol Posted December 20, 2011 Posted December 20, 2011 Sounds pretty blah. Waiting for my SolarXLunar video.
shad0whiei Posted December 20, 2011 Posted December 20, 2011 Thanks. I hope I can make it to more tournies. I thought the lack of invincibility for 214B was always like that for CS2. Do you mean 214x in general when catching opponents doing air normals? Nah I used to start a match in cs2 with 214B and it would go through almost anything minus a few 2/3 c moves. But it would clear ragna 5B and hakumens 3 or 4c? No problem and launch into air combo. If they blocked it wasn't hard to not get punished either. Now she just dies lol Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
Michi Posted December 20, 2011 Posted December 20, 2011 Just my two cents. :v 1st day impressions. Finally got to play CSx today and yea went through her challenge mode, 14 was pretty interesting due to the small IAD at one part. Sadly, I still do CS2 stuff so I kept blue-beating a lot and pressuring not with 5B is kind of a tough thing; still need to adjust a bit with the pressure bit. Back in CS2, I always ended my combos in the air but I guess CSx forced me to finish them on the ground. I think this is kinda a better thing since it may give more room to charge. I also ended up charging a lot in the air since it felt more free due to the cap 5D and 2D has. Also still not used with 5C since the hitbox is pretty amazing if you ask me. I usually do a 5C(whiff)C kind of thing so it was pretty hard to adjust with. And it's easier to pull off combos now. I just did a few to practice like her DP whiffs and her corner stuff. Tried out mugen stuff right after although I still can't time 623C > j.214D right (it whiffs) so I'll guess I'll try again once I play CSx on Friday. Tbh, I rarely use 214B but since reading about it earlier, tried it and yea felt like some invul were removed (usually use it against Spark Bolt). Her 22D CH having wall bounce still felt pretty awkward since it reminded me of CS1 combos again, but I haven't had the chance to try those yet. Meh, not much from me really. Just a random Tsubaki player ;u;
BatousaiJ Posted December 20, 2011 Posted December 20, 2011 (edited) As noted before, 2A proration is awful now and 5A is the new 2A more or less. Lucky for us, our 5A hits enemies that are crouching so it will work well in pressure/combos. Also, more and more I find myself opting to gatling to 5C over 5B in a lot of cases unless I'm going for 5B gatling into overheads and etc. 6B into 5A is pretty tight and a good frame trap. Option select for blocking to bait dp after 6B should still be very effective and charge cancel is confirmed to give you more charge than normally. It take 4 quickest tap charge cancel to get a little over 1 charge and it goes by fast when you're in there with the pressure. Baiting mashing that counters charge cancel gimmick is still 5B(B), 5C©, 2B(B). Even if they instant block the first hit, you can get them out of mashing by delaying the second hit with relative ease. There's also the option to use barrier push back to your advantage with 5B still where you charge cancel on a move with large push back and then 5B punish them while they whiff jab against you. Most of what made charge canceling a good mind games tool is still in tact and it's better in the way that it nets you more charge now so I recommend people integrate it into their playstyle if they haven't already. Edit- Making a small note, 236C no longer takes away a primer, 214C does again(didn't in CS2?), trust 22C still takes primers away. Unless I'm missing something it seems our primer breaking moves are only j.236D > j.214D, 214C and 22C. 22C still being the most accessible of the bunch still 6B > 22C will either break primer or CH hit them for a wall bounce and is very effective setup for primer breaking. Oh second hit of 6CC also breaks primers but it's not a good one to use. Edited December 20, 2011 by BatousaiJ
Airk Posted December 20, 2011 Posted December 20, 2011 (edited) As noted before, 2A proration is awful now and 5A is the new 2A more or less. Lucky for us, our 5A hits enemies that are crouching so it will work well in pressure/combos. Given this, we should basically never use 2A, since it's now even on block just like 5A is. Edit: well, unless they nerfed 5A too. Edit- Making a small note, 236C no longer takes away a primer, 214C does again(didn't in CS2?), trust 22C still takes primers away. Trust nothing. Also, 214C does take a primer in CS2. Oh second hit of 6CC also breaks primers but it's not a good one to use. Yeah. Not useful. =/ Especially since even if you guard crush with it, the next hit lands immediately and screws up whatever you might want to do. If you're bored you can check both supers (C and D) - they used to break primers too, but whatever. I'm curious if they've done any more tampering with the D version to try to make it useful. Edited December 20, 2011 by Airk
BatousaiJ Posted December 20, 2011 Posted December 20, 2011 C and D super does break primers just as before. The problem with never using 2A is that 2A is a great punish for low ending moves like Noel's 3C and etc so it should still be used, just note that you should be using 5A as you goto close range pokes most of the time. Also, LOL mugen. I can't wait to show you guys some of these combos and the damage that they deal.
pktazn Posted December 20, 2011 Author Posted December 20, 2011 Heh, so it is all about mugen this time around? I likey~
BatousaiJ Posted December 20, 2011 Posted December 20, 2011 ^^ You'll see =d. Shocking that I can do a full IAD combo off of a 5A now. I'm not even sure if that was possible in CS 2.
Daedron Posted December 20, 2011 Posted December 20, 2011 Heh, so it is all about mugen this time around? I likey~ Don't forget the gold bursts! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_nZ80NNd68 I command BatousaiJ to post the notation for the 10.5K you did though, wonder what I could have added onto the combo I did above XD One of us should one day try to just IB/Block everything untill you get 100 heat and 5 charges while still having 2 bursts and try to pull these off lol, would be the biggest troll move ever...not like I see it happening though.
pktazn Posted December 20, 2011 Author Posted December 20, 2011 (edited) I fail at gold burst combos lolol. I can do mugen though. That was a pretty sexy combo~ Also looks like Konan is still playing Tsu if anyone is curious. He's going to be using her at GODSGARDEN. Edited December 20, 2011 by pktazn
Velvien Posted December 20, 2011 Posted December 20, 2011 A 2 charge mugen combo off a 5C starter mid screen can net you 5.5k+ with ease which is some of the highest mid screen damage I've seen in extend. Okay. I need to see the notation for this.
Errol Posted December 20, 2011 Posted December 20, 2011 funny how even with all the bonus proration, the super at the end still does jack. First person to post a double mugen combo wins..
Iza Posted December 20, 2011 Posted December 20, 2011 Also looks like Konan is still playing Tsu if anyone is curious. :toot: Im actually quite happy to hear that, now i can stop holding my breath
BatousaiJ Posted December 20, 2011 Posted December 20, 2011 Okay. I need to see the notation for this. You guys are going to have to wait for the video =d. Just don't ask when you'll be able to see it as the answer will always be, "COMING SOON".
HajinShinobi Posted December 20, 2011 Posted December 20, 2011 Those are some interesting, but good notes. Keep it up Batousai and Dae.
Daedron Posted December 20, 2011 Posted December 20, 2011 (edited) funny how even with all the bonus proration, the super at the end still does jack. First person to post a double mugen combo wins.. I made one and recorded it, will upload it now Okay, this is what I managed to cook up for you: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LoGMg4b_CY enjoy Edited December 21, 2011 by Daedron
Rhiya Posted December 21, 2011 Posted December 21, 2011 Double mugen? Psh. Doing 100 meter combos for 50 heat is where it's at. Looping DP D>j.236D>j.214D gives you ridiculous heat gain.
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