AC: Ky Kiske Discussion

[Shinobi!]

I think I said that earlier when I started this thread but that shit is too good. Come to think of it, it really would make a really nice tick throw setup (not for the throw itself just makes it look unpredictable.) Damn, I want this game....

[Darkhonor90]

were you guys aware the that you could do force break jD in the corner and throw w/out frc and it will continue the combo for you.

oh, you dont have to be in the corner.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=zC01W_uSmew

Neat trick but way to situational

[低姿勢]

Ah I havnt watched the video but if its what I think it is, why would it be too situtional? Its basicly a much more powerfull version of old stuff like jump kick/p dust then throw when you land. Since you can cancle into ex jump dust with say a HS which of course does more stuff which would make it harder to escape, and add to the fact that EX jump dust doesnt go away when kys hit, so mashing on jab or even throwing ky himself doesnt make it go away, unlike the regular jump dust. So its much more powerfull and of course the fact you'll be able to combo after it when you throw. So yea seems like a pretty viable strat to me... Again I didnt watch the video though... So if this isnt what your talking about then neeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeevermind.

[lars]

222H isn't RC/FRCable. For sure. I also don't really know how useful it is. It adds a little damage but then you get no big blue fireball pressure IIRC.

i saw (didn't remeber when shrugh) after an impossible dust the ky put ex air dust then did the 222h the ex air dust connected and then the ky did combo after.....the time the ex air dust connect let him time enough to link a combo.....

so yeah after a knockdown it might be possible to ex air dust,222hs,combo depends if u got time enough so it might depends of the knockdown shrugh

[purify]

Situational? Not at all really, I've seen that done in other vids multiple times, and not even in the corner. Looks easy to do, even. Mystic Cross stays out damn forever. It looks like the combo does a little more damage than a FRC throw combo without the risk of missing and using 50%, and if you screw up your throw attempt, the cross is going to still be there for a good like five seconds lol.

[Mr. Mamation]

I think I said that earlier when I started this thread but that shit is too good. Come to think of it, it really would make a really nice tick throw setup (not for the throw itself just makes it look unpredictable.) Damn, I want this game....

sorry about that ;[

and what they said

[shtkn]

hey guys, i'm going to get to play AC this weekend (hopefully), so if you have anything you want me to test, post up.

[H-F Blade]

I'll be playing this weekend as well.

[Zenpou Tenshin]

dam*..................waiting for accent core. I wish it comes out for the ps2.

[Tirian]

Situational? Not at all really, I've seen that done in other vids multiple times, and not even in the corner. Looks easy to do, even. Mystic Cross stays out damn forever. It looks like the combo does a little more damage than a FRC throw combo without the risk of missing and using 50%, and if you screw up your throw attempt, the cross is going to still be there for a good like five seconds lol.

You're right, it's not situational, and it's relatively easy to pull off. Of course, they can still tech out of the setup when you try to throw them, so throw setups aren't as great in AC as they used to be, but this is one that should be a regular that Ky players should use a bit.

[Zenpou Tenshin]

You're right, it's not situational, and it's relatively easy to pull off. Of course, they can still tech out of the setup when you try to throw them, so throw setups aren't as great in AC as they used to be, but this is one that should be a regular that Ky players should use a bit.

that's right, we will look toward more VT loops now.

[Heidern98]

that's right, we will look toward more VT loops now.

Ouch.... Ok I played AC and after some evaluation... Ky is most likely gonna be at the bottom this game imo. He's awful.

Everything is slower.... and he gets rushed for free it feels like now.... About as bad as XX or reload Id say but now that so many other characters are so much better.... its really bad for him. Honestly I won't be surprised when the tier list comes out and Ky is one of the last four. The major issues id say are the slowdown on CSE, counter hit 2H being BAD now, S fireball nerf, and most of all something Ky always relied on ... his slide.. its done now... Startup makes it all but useless... You can barely combo it now...

Ya but Im not here to bitch about Ky.... I wanted to give an upfront honest opinion. Im glad they lowered him in power but some of the nerfs just about destroy a large portion of his game....

Since I have access to AC every day if others who arent as fortunate have questions etc.... lemme have em ^_^

[Zenpou Tenshin]

ohhhh...............that's harsh. There goes the champion. Well, good that they lowered him. Ky GGX/: Death to all.

[Sytha]

Eh... I dont think your really giving AC Ky a chance. From the Japanese I've been hearing basically around Mid tier. His new moves are insanely good.He gained new tools to help him out of pressure Ray Divider being a 1 frame move that basically does everything is kinda nice and the changes to SVT are VERY nice from what I've seen and the ASE FRCs are crazy. But anyway... Who cares about Tier placement. Mind Testing all the mix ups you can mix up after 5S>6P>6H blockstring. The Japanese have been using that for a while with some success. The more popular set ups for it are like 6K>236S>FRC, 5D, IAD, Shine, 2S, 2D, ASE>FRC>Airdash, etc. Also can you test the practically of doing aircombos that involve the ASE FRC resets? Oh almost forgot. Try playing around with all the fun new Tick throw set ups like j.D since that no longer has landing recovery, and Stun Raising. I guess RtL might have some uses like that maybe since it no longer has Recovery time. But I'm not sure. Sounds useless either way tho. And for a useless thing I'm wondering whats the damage of Far Slash>Charge Drive because that seemed like a nice random kill if you could get it.

[H-F Blade]

Heidern and I played the game last night and I'd have to agree about a lot of the nerfs. It really hurts his game but neither of us and the other Ky players there could really utilize his new stuff effectively. As for tier placement I don't really have an opinion but from what I've seen in matches I'm predicting that he's more or less mid. I couldn't exactly "test" out anything because aside from the fact that I can't play stick, the pad configuration that I was using practically crippled me. Botched block strings left and right and being unable to RC and FRC. :\ Regarding the shine, it seems to be best utilized as a defensive move. I couldn't seem to use it effectively in combos but I guess because I was doing it too slow. But as seen before, it's a great anti-air. There were times when I've been hit out of it though because you have to go through the CSE startup before the attack materializes. So I guess the attack materialization time is 1 frame but the part before it is not. Lightning javelin loops are hard. I couldn't quite get the timing down for it at all. I think it was mentioned earlier in this thread or another one that it was no longer possible to combo off an anti-air CH 6P. This is not true. The standard close 5S-2H-VT followup is still possible. Oh yeah, there was this one WTF moment last night as well. Ky's RtL gets BEAT OUT by Ky's j.HS. -_-

[Shinobi!]

Well I'll be playing AC at Final Round but I really cant play stick so I'm gonna only answer questions like, "Um, where's the FRC point on LJ?" and "Is Charge Drive really that bad?"

[shtkn]

Oh yeah, there was this one WTF moment last night as well. Ky's RtL gets BEAT OUT by Ky's j.HS. -_-

you're welcome

anyways, this is what i got from the playtesting last night:

ex cross: great move, but they can hit you as you bring it out so dont just blindly use if they get in on you. This is more of a zoning/pressure tool.

orb (that first followup thing for CSE): at first i was hoping you could do CSE and then wait a little while to see if you can bring out hte orb in reaction to an enemy IADing in. Alas, this doesnt seem to be possible. You need to input the command for Orb pretty quickly. We've all seen videos where you sweep > orb > combo, but i was unable to do it last night (though i didn't try that many times).

2H: on ground CH, if you JC immediately, i think theyr'e barely in range of a j.S, if it's air CH, forget it maybe you can superjump and reach them, but i didn't try it.

6P: didn't seem weaker when i tried it, but i didn't use it much cuz i was just getting a feel for the game.

j.S: i read somewhere that the hitbox for this was smaller, but i didn't notice.

slide: S-L-O-W. I'm really sad about this move. i really dont see why they ewakened this move. More startup, slower, doesn't go as far. basically, not very useful now unless i missed something. gonna have to learn new attack strings if you want ot finish with it.

CSE: slower startup, doesnt go across the stage, etc. yeah, sad. i dunno why they nerfed this too.

2.D: more recovery i think.

VT and Lightning Javelin: you can delay the input of Lightning Javelin if the oponent is too high. I dont know much about hte height /spacing needed for VT loops, but i guess that'll come with more practice. FRC's on LJ were wierd. I was able to mash one out, but i ddin't do anything afterwards. I think jeff said that supposedly, LJ frc reset your jump options, but i didnt see it.

6H: easily backdashable. I dunno if it's easy to bait stuff with it yet... have to try that more later. On hit's it's pretty good, doesn't force them into crouching, but they stagger for a long time. I think after you hit with a 6H, you could run up to them, do another 6H into a combo of some kind. 6H can cancel into what feels like everything. I could cancel 6H into 5H, 2D, 5S, a jump, and specials so it's good... as long as they dont backdash it. I wanted to try using it more as a zoning tool, but i dind't get the chance to.

6K: didn't use it much strangely enough. I saw jeff miss some 6K > 2K links though, so i guess it crappier now.

2S: someone said that this move's attack level went up, but i never noticed.

2P: you're supposed to be +1 now on block or something? didn't notice.

greed sever: the bounce is wierd, but after a little bit you get used to it. You can't really loop it obviously, but i think we can use this for VT loop setups in the future.

ACSE: couldn't get the frc for this during hte whole night (might just be me), but other than that, felt the same.

ASE: i could get the frcs on this some of hte time, but not enought to really use it in battle. or see if it really did reset your jump options.

ground SE: couldn't get the frcs for the life of me.

overall, ky's slower. you feel more sluggish with him. I think a big part of his game will be his new frcs (which i couldnt really get out when i was there). I think ground stun edge FRCs will be paramount in any new strings that develop.

Throw Break: fairly rare for now, but yeah, throws you off a little when you see it. it seemed both characters recovered at the same time, so no frame advantage/disadvantage or anything.

Slashback: risky. quite risky. Most ppl during hte night didnt seem to use it. I tried, and i even slashbacked 2 hits of roboky's det super, but got hit by the rest. I think this is training mode material for now, could definately help in the future though. Mike Z said that after a slashback, your tension gain rate is x2. for multiple slashbacks, it seems you just need to hold 1 or 4 and press S+H at the appropriate times. It also seems that once you start slashbacking a multihit move, you cant go back to blocking for the entire thing (i might be mistaken though).

more as i think of it.

[H-F Blade]

Oh man, luckily that wasn't MY Ky whose RtL got beat out by j.H otherwise I'd have to start busting heads. lol But I felt like dying after I saw that. There was an army of Ky's there last night but we fell to his Robot alter ego. x_X CH 2H is stupid. But you can still combo after it if you super jump. I couldn't do it though because, yeah, see above. From what we all saw last night, star mine needs to be FDed in the air.

[Tirian]

Ky is definitely nerfed, it's true. I don't know if I'd go so far as to say he's going to be low tier, though. I don't put him any higher than mid, either. Javelin loops are pretty hard to do, yeah. You pretty much have to find some way to combo them off the ground into a high HS uppercut, because you have to javelin them at a position that's just a bit above your head in the air for you to be able to comfortably relaunch them. I haven't really found that frcing the javelin is worth it, but maybe you'll see it differently. Also, if you try to javelin after an air combo, a lot of times they can tech before they even land, too. I usually let them just fall after a javelin and start wakeup games/mixups. In fact, I pretty much almost never even bother trying to loop, unless it's an obvious one (like setup from a throw frc). You can lightning strike otg after a javelin (I don't even know what to call the new move where he calls down the lightning) when they land. I prefer the wakeup games over the little damage that that move does otg.

[Mr. Mamation]

MAYbe this will mean we can stop scrubing with ky???

he still looks fun though

[低姿勢]

http://jbbs.livedoor.jp/bbs/read.cgi/game/34742/1170228974/

[H-F Blade]

I would rather just save the lightning otg hit when the opponent is low on health and continue pressure after an LJ. But some of the more recent match videos the players use it after throws. Not sure why. Also, when I was playing last weekend, I noticed that it's possible for the attack to miss if you do it too late. If that happens and they're close to you, then you're going to have a sad Ky.

[Sytha]

Awesome. Thanks FS. I'm going to read those in a bit.

[Most Unknown]

I guess it was the Japanese that made Ky look hella tight...however, according to the previous post, I don't have any disagreements with what has been said about Ky...If you have to focus more on FRC's and mix-up with him, then I'll do dat...Plus its not too much of a big deal, hence I enjoyed playing Reload Ky then Slash Ky, so I'm not even mad at all the nurfs...Its going back to the old days...Stun Dipper is no longer as safe as it used to be and has a slower start up, which is hella fucked up...Thanks to dudes for clearing up all the hype...

[purify]

Staring at kanji I can't read makes me feel smart and awesome and a better Ky player overall.