Errol Posted November 23, 2012 Posted November 23, 2012 (edited) Sounds like 6a might have been slowed down, but I'm not sure that's the case. Tweet was saying that you can get out ofit just by holding up. But I feel like that was already the case, right? jbbs: CH 236C cannot be followed up with jab.. for some reason, seems like you are too far away for it to connect. Startup seems slower. If you hit with 2c anti-air, it doesn't float enough for you to followup UNLESS you input 2cc. With the decreased hitstop, this is hard. (even a slight delay will result in 2cc whiff as you can see in videos) People are having trouble figuring out how to followup an air hit of 236D. Old stuff like 5c doesn't work. You can still charge cancel 214x. and get about .5 charge and keep oki. http://livedoor.blogimg.jp/b6bo-blazblue/imgs/d/0/d0fed601.jpg Edited November 23, 2012 by Errol
Airk Posted November 23, 2012 Posted November 23, 2012 Sounds like 6a might have been slowed down, but I'm not sure that's the case. Tweet was saying that you can get out ofit just by holding up. But I feel like that was already the case, right? Well, it depends on what you did it after? But you've always had at least like 10 frames after a 5B. Although I've hit people who tried to jump out of 6A before, I expect they weren't holding up. Anyway, I can't imagine they deciding to nerf our already incredibly bad overhead, so I think this one is safe. :P CH 236C cannot be followed up with jab.. for some reason, seems like you are too far away for it to connect. Startup seems slower. The first part of this seems like it's probably a consequence of what I noticed earlier about it going into recovery on contact instead of continuing with the active frames (which would have moved you forwards) until they ran out. Even slower startup seems pretty poor though. =/ If you hit with 2c anti-air, it doesn't float enough for you to followup UNLESS you input 2cc. With the decreased hitstop, this is hard. (even a slight delay will result in 2cc whiff as you can see in videos) Definitely agree that this seems to be the case - do we know if 2CC still whiffs on most folks' crouching hitboxes? You can still charge cancel 214x. and get about .5 charge and keep oki. Wait...ground 214x can be charge cancelled? @_@ http://livedoor.blogimg.jp/b6bo-blazblue/imgs/d/0/d0fed601.jpg Time for your spanking? WTF.
Errol Posted November 23, 2012 Posted November 23, 2012 (edited) nah sorry, j.214X charge cancel. and ground 22x. 236C > 5a connects in this... http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm19417535 but at point blank range same video also shows a longer range one with followup 5a whiff. 236D looks just as negative on block, but it really leaves you right on top of them. Before a backdash or iad I felt ok with, I dunno about now. Edited November 23, 2012 by Errol
Kiba Posted November 23, 2012 Posted November 23, 2012 (edited) do we know if 2CC still whiffs on most folks' crouching hitboxes? Yea, it still whiffs on crouching hitboxes unfortunately. This change is quite, painful. AA is the same but they nerfed the way in which we can followup, although it seems alright if they are high enough. Unless you're really good with your hitconfirms, a slightly lower 2C AA CH will result with no combo lol. Just take your oki from that. http://livedoor.blogimg.jp/b6bo-blazblue/imgs/d/0/d0fed601.jpg Time for your spanking? WTF. WOOF WOOF! ARRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Nah I'm joking but it made me LOL. I really did not expect that. Edited November 23, 2012 by Kiba
Mcgreag Posted November 23, 2012 Posted November 23, 2012 Well, it depends on what you did it after? But you've always had at least like 10 frames after a 5B. Although I've hit people who tried to jump out of 6A before, I expect they weren't holding up. Anyway, I can't imagine they deciding to nerf our already incredibly bad overhead, so I think this one is safe. :P It does look like that gave it better proratio or something as the standard midscreen 6A combo now does 2.1k where it used to do 1.8k. So maybe a nerf for compensate for that?
BatousaiJ Posted November 23, 2012 Posted November 23, 2012 2CC whiff always had a long recovery so I never used it to anti air, just 2C which would recover relatively quickly on whiff. If it's that hard to follow up on only 2C that means it's no longer jump-cancelable or it has incredibly low hitstun. The latter is easier to believe of the two that seems really odd considering how 2C used to have the most hitstun out of most of our moves. As for the 6A being slower, I would wager that it's the same speed. I've seen the animation enough to be able to tell and yes, it has always been really slow and you could just jab out of it if you saw it coming through all the transitions 5B/5BB.
Errol Posted November 23, 2012 Posted November 23, 2012 (edited) It's not hard to followup on only 2c, it's hard to confirm your followup without the hitstop. I don't think jump cancel or hitstun/untech has changed. THe other thing is that because of the floating, you can't followup with 5c, you only have slower options (2cc, jump cancel - might have to jump cancel into JB instead of JC) i.e. 2c has 13 frames of hitstop right now, and 16 on counter hit. we can probably assume that most of that is gone. 2c has 25 untech frames. So A guess is that we have 25 frames to confirm instead of 38-41. We'll have to see, but it looks like it could be annoying in videos. this is probably all wrong, but all I know is we have probably 10 less frames to confirm and it looks a bit on the hard side to me. 6b CH confirms are bugging me too. Edited November 23, 2012 by Errol
Velvien Posted November 23, 2012 Posted November 23, 2012 (edited) A few observations from last night's streams, and apologies for any repeat information. 5BB > 5CC > 623C > j.214? > 5B didn't connect Anti-air 2CC > IAD j.C didn't connect j.236D > j.214D hits several times and then launches now, rather than holding in place with the orb effect 5B looks awesome again; seems to have much less recovery 5CC > 22D > 236D still works, but doesn't seem to pick up into anything. 236D bounces too low. Players in general seem to be having trouble figuring out how to extend combos with charge Edited November 23, 2012 by Velvien
Airk Posted November 23, 2012 Posted November 23, 2012 It's not hard to followup on only 2c, it's hard to confirm your followup without the hitstop. I don't think jump cancel or hitstun/untech has changed. THe other thing is that because of the floating, you can't followup with 5c, you only have slower options (2cc, jump cancel - might have to jump cancel into JB instead of JC) i.e. 2c has 13 frames of hitstop right now, and 16 on counter hit. we can probably assume that most of that is gone. 2c has 25 untech frames. So A guess is that we have 25 frames to confirm instead of 38-41. We'll have to see, but it looks like it could be annoying in videos. this is probably all wrong, but all I know is we have probably 10 less frames to confirm and it looks a bit on the hard side to me. 6b CH confirms are bugging me too. No, I think you're right - reduced hitstop means confirms are harder. It's one of the reasons I'm super bothered about them nerfing the hitbox on 5BB - half the point of having an auto-followup is to make it easier to hitconfirm into stuff, and if the auto followup whiffs like 2/3rds of the time, it's worse than not having one at all.
Errol Posted November 23, 2012 Posted November 23, 2012 (edited) Makoto 6a>5b works well for confirming anti-airs. it'd be nice if 2c>5c worked like that I'm looking at a video. (Right here) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5Hi4YqVJF0 B/c of 2c floating less, it also looks like a low altitude hit on 2c, even CH, is not going to be followed up with jump cancel attacks. (JB/JC). You need to 2cc in order to get them high enough for jump attacks to hit. Any people who watched the stream last night ( I need more videos). Did you ever see someone manage to followup a throw in the corner? The vids we have available have the throw happening and not being followed up a lot. Edited November 23, 2012 by Errol
Velvien Posted November 23, 2012 Posted November 23, 2012 Nothing has been able to follow up corner throw yet. Looks like we need to go for command grab in corner
Kiba Posted November 23, 2012 Posted November 23, 2012 A few observations from last night's streams, and apologies for any repeat information. 5BB > 5CC > 623C > j.214? > 5B didn't connect I was praying this would work. So we still retain the same CS1 combo but 236C will not connect if we are far, so we'd have to end with the projectile or charge cancel into further pressure. So what of the jump loop combos then? Either way, it's still the same thing unless someone finds something spiffy with 5BB > 623C > j.214X > followup? (Again here's me hoping). Anti-air 2CC > IAD j.C didn't connect So even if we could do 2C AA CH > 5C > 2CC we still couldn't get the IAD j.C to work. Again, we'd have to resort to air combos or 2CC > Special ender. Bear in mind I'm only really considering chargeless bnbs atm since charges just open up a lot of possibilities for her. j.236D > j.214D hits several times and then launches now, rather than holding in place with the orb effect Not sure what to make of this, but do we have time to followup with something before the launch? Yo does ASW know what to do with her? She kinda seems all over the place, but this kinda did happen during the first days of EX. I dunno what to expect anymore but as usual we should just wait till more people get used to her and stuff. It's only been 2 days, and thanks for posting that stuff Velvien.
Daedron Posted November 23, 2012 Posted November 23, 2012 Wasn't there a combo posted earlier that showed you can followup j.236D - j.214D with 6C? It was new technology as well namely: 5CC - 623C - j.236D - j.214D - 6C - jc - j.D - j.C - 5C - 2CC - Ender = 4.2K
Errol Posted November 24, 2012 Posted November 24, 2012 i also thought I posted that you can get 2.5k midscreen, off somethng like 5bb5cc623c>whiffj214d>5c>2c(c?)>aerial. aerial enders aren't bad now.
Kiba Posted November 24, 2012 Posted November 24, 2012 (edited) I'm just waiting for some footage for these. Did I make it seem like the air combos are bad? My bad, I actually like them! Edited November 24, 2012 by Kiba Made a mistake
Velvien Posted November 24, 2012 Posted November 24, 2012 Wasn't there a combo posted earlier that showed you can followup j.236D - j.214D with 6C? It was new technology as well namely: 5CC - 623C - j.236D - j.214D - 6C - jc - j.D - j.C - 5C - 2CC - Ender = 4.2K Huh. I dunno, maybe what I saw was j.236A > j.214D or something. Sorry about that. On that note...maybe something like throw > 623C > j.236D > j.214D would work in the corner?
Errol Posted November 24, 2012 Posted November 24, 2012 (edited) Looking at these videos.. I wonder if 623d>j236d>j214d can be followed up? if not, that kinda sucks, damage is only like.. 1.8k? lol... j.236D, j.214D... I'm GUESSING that it is still + on block.. but god damn, it's not like the BIG + on block it was before, sigh. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pncwoeJ_U14&t=3m45s Edited November 24, 2012 by Errol
Kiba Posted November 24, 2012 Posted November 24, 2012 (edited) Seems that way. 22D looks much safer on block. Look how fast she was able to use the CT afterwards, or is that me seeing things? Projectile hitstun was very small on CH, but on the plus side Tsubaki back throw looks like it can have some interesting followups. CS1 Style. Thanks for getting the videos Velvien. Edited November 24, 2012 by Kiba
Airk Posted November 24, 2012 Posted November 24, 2012 (edited) Looking at these videos.. I wonder if 623d>j236d>j214d can be followed up? if not, that kinda sucks, damage is only like.. 1.8k? It kinda looks like you might be able to pick up with 214X? Not sure. The height seems right, but they might not be fast enough. lol... j.236D, j.214D... I'm GUESSING that it is still + on block.. but god damn, it's not like the BIG + on block it was before, sigh. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pncwoeJ_U14&t=3m45s Awesome. Now that they've made sure that you can't spend 1 charge to gain advantage on block (Yeah, I know, they're changing that now too - it looks like 236D might be even), it's time to make sure that we can't have good situations by spending two charges either. :P Next thing we know, we'll discover that the 46D > 236D chain isn't plus either. Edit: The heck is happening here (when she holds the book over her head)? Edited November 24, 2012 by Airk
Errol Posted November 24, 2012 Posted November 24, 2012 (edited) That is crush trigger. アズラエルにリバサC槍>D光>D翼ってやったら裏回った。6CC届かなかったしかなり面倒だわこれ vs Azrael. Did 623C>J236D>J214D. crossed up. 6CC unable to reach, this is quote troublesome. Midscreen throw, 1 charge mugen, [4]6D>236D>max charge 22d> mini dash 6cc> BBB ender. 4300 damage. 6bb causes a slide on opponents in the air, that you can followup off of. But nothing amazing coming out of it yet. prorations 5A / 300/100/ 75 5B / 520/100/ 84 5BB/ 400/100/ 80 5C / 640/100/ 89 5CC/ 620/xxx/ 87 2A / 300/100/ 75 2B / 400/ 90/ 80 2BB/ 480/ 90/ 80 2C / 660/ 89/ 88 2CC/ 680/xxx/ 87 6A / 620/ 80/ 89 6B / 480/ 90/ 92 6BB/ 560/ 90/92 6C /250*6/100/94 SMP 6CC/300*3/xxx/ 84 SMP 3C / 720/ 95/ 94 3CC/ 980/ 95/ 84 JA / 300/ 90/ 77 JB / 420/ 90/ 80 JBB/ 570/ 90/ 84 JC / 530/ 90/ 84 JCC/ 680/ 90/ 87 RAGNA PRORATION (For comparison) haracter combo rate: 70% Name : Damage : P1 : P2 : Notes (SMP will be notated via x) 5A : 300 : 100 : 77 5B : 660 : 100 : 89 5C : 800 : 100 : 92 5D(1) : 550 : 100 : 94 5D(2) : 760 : 100? : 75 2A : 300 : 100 : 77 2B : 500 : 90 : 85 2C : 720 : 100 : 92 2D : 750 : 80 : 94 3C : 720 : 90 : 92 6A : 620 : 90 : 79 6B : 720 : 80 : 89 6C(1) : 620 : 90 : 82 6C(2) : 620 : 90? : 100 : P2 maybe (once) instead of actual value?乗算補正は一度限り? 6D : 750 : 100? : 75 j.A : 300 : 100 : 77 j.B : 500 : 90 : 85 j.C : 620 : 90 : 89 j.D : 590 : 90 : 75 Throw : 1400 : 100 : 60 CT : 1000 : 80 : 100 : ignores combo rate CID(1) : 550 : 80 : 92 : × CID(2) : 550 : 80 : 92 : × CID(1, air) : 550 : 85 : 92 : × ground version treated as different move CID(2, air) : 550 : 85 : 92 : × DID(1) : 600 : 100 : 92 : x DID(2) : 600 : 100 : 92 : x DID(1, air): 600 : 100 : 92 : x ground version treated as different move? DID(2, air): 600 : 100 : 92 : x Upper : 310 : 100? : 100 Straight : 400 : 100? : 70 : × Ax Kick : 480 : 100? : 90 HF : 730 : 75 : 82 : × Tsuika : 950 : 100 : 92 : × GH : 800 : 90 : 92 : × GH (air) : 700 : 90 : 92 : × Keri Age : 800 : 100 : 67 : × DS : 1000 : 90 : 92 : × BE(1) : 600 : 90 : 87 : × BE(2~) : 100 : 100 : 100 22C : ? : 100? : 92 : × hitstun will be affected by repeat proration BS : 1200 : 90 : 82 : repeat proration not researched yet BS (air): 900 : 90 : 82 : repeat proration not researched yet CS(1) : 1000 : 85 : 92 : 30% minimum damage (300) CS(2) : 2500 : 85? : 92 : 30% minimum damage (750) DbD (grab) : 0 : 80 : 100 DbD (attack) : 3000 : 100 : 5 : 25% minimum damage (750) during OD BK 5D(2) : 860 : 100? : 75 BK 2D : 850 : 80 : 94 BK 6D : 850 : 90 : 94 BK j.D : 690 : 90 : 75 BK DID(1) : 700 : 100 : 92 : × BK DID(2) : 700 : 100 : 92 : × BK DID(1) : 700 : 100 : 92 : × ground version treated as different move BK DID(2) : 700 : 100 : 92 : × BK Ax Kick : 680 : 100? : 90 : × BK Tsuika : 1150 : 100 : 92 : × BK Keri Age : 1000 : 100 : 90 : × BK DS : 600 : 90 : 92 : × P2 is (once) BK BS : 1400 : 90 : 82 : repeat proration not researched yet BK BS (air) : 1100 : 90 : 82 : repeat proration not researched yet BK CS(3～6) : 300 : 100? : 99 : minimum damage not researched yet DbD (grab) : 0 : 80 : 100 DbD (attack) : 6000 : 100 : 5 : 30% minimum damage (1500) Edited November 24, 2012 by Errol
Airk Posted November 24, 2012 Posted November 24, 2012 Oh, that's the crush trigger? Okay. I guess that explains why it seemed so slow.
Airk Posted November 24, 2012 Posted November 24, 2012 3cc bonus proration removed. RIP 3CC combos. :P Some impressively high P1 values on some of those attacks though. Seems like they must've decided to raise these across the board, 'cause I can't see them applying them with such a heavy hand to just one character.
Errol Posted November 24, 2012 Posted November 24, 2012 (edited) RIP 3CC combos. :P Some impressively high P1 values on some of those attacks though. Seems like they must've decided to raise these across the board, 'cause I can't see them applying them with such a heavy hand to just one character. the ragna numbers are out too, if you take a look over there. I edited ragna numbers into my post. it's universal as you say. Actually a lot of our prorations look nerfed, except for p1s. 6A,6B,6BB,6C,6CC,2C,JCC Can be OD canceled. also, you can jump cancel cancel with OD. i.e. 5bb>5cc>OD>5bb>5cc works. Also, you can connect with 236D after 236236C. You can get about 3400 dmg. 236236C>236D>5C>2CC>JC>JCC>J214A Edited November 24, 2012 by Errol
Surf Posted November 24, 2012 Posted November 24, 2012 3cc bonus proration removed. Arc..... just.... ....
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