samthegreat Posted June 1, 2013 Posted June 1, 2013 Hahaha wow. Tetsu used to be my idol when I started playing with Jin (sorry). That's just too funny.
samthegreat Posted June 1, 2013 Posted June 1, 2013 So far N-O (lol), Dora and apparently Tetsuwo too since he switched from a character he has (more or less, forgetting Tao) 5 years of experience with and widely considered top tier to her.
TD Posted June 1, 2013 Posted June 1, 2013 Thanks. What interesting opinions. I wonder what makes them think so. It would sate my curiosity if they explained why they thought so.
STenSatsu Posted June 1, 2013 Posted June 1, 2013 She's basically the Millia of BB atm once she gets you into the corner. Not much damage but unseeable 50/50s into more of the same.
Tari Posted June 1, 2013 Posted June 1, 2013 She's basically the Millia of BB atm once she gets you into the corner. Not much damage but unseeable 50/50s into more of the same. That's not really new, though, is it? Haha. Maybe Tetsuo just felt like changing it up finally after 5 years? Rachel's mixup has generally been considered strong throughout almost every game (the slight exception being CS1).
samthegreat Posted June 1, 2013 Posted June 1, 2013 He played Tao in EX too when Jin was considered bad.
kodimt Posted June 1, 2013 Posted June 1, 2013 The overall system changes seem to help her a lot. The new combo route of hers <3 Her defense is still ass though aaaaaaaaaaaa
TD Posted June 1, 2013 Posted June 1, 2013 I could see the general changes being what make her strong. In cs2 and cse she was practically the same, even now she was balanced with some great buffs and some noticeable nerfs. It was just odd to me that rachel being top tier would be based to the buffs she received, because while they are certainly great for her, I don't feel like they would make her top tier. High tier, yes. Like being able to convert air hits, new lobelias/lotus, 6a... Very good for her. But system changes being the reason would make some sense. In the other games, Rachel's defense really sucked because of how the guard systems worked and tended to favors the fat health guys. Now everyone only has to watch out for crush trigger and other very specific moves like plat's hammer and sword of decimation. She still can't break out of pressure well but some of that pressure is relieved with new barrier block and how crush trigger works. Besides, rachel can usually avoid having to block for entire rounds with her amazing rushdown and zoning. This wasn't supposed to turn into paragraphs lol
The K1 Effect Posted June 2, 2013 Posted June 2, 2013 (edited) Hey guys. New(ish) member here. I played BB a little during BBCS1, but I didnt play for very long and I didnt get really heavy into the game. My Ragna was relatively good, but hes a really basic / fundementals based character so that kinda explains why I had success with him. Rachel is by far my favorite character (well, I like Noel and Litchi a lot too), and Im curious if someone can help me get up to speed with her. Execution stuff isnt really a big issue for me, I can learn her combos no problem. My main issue is going to be her neutral / knowing what tools to use and when. Like....safe blockstrings, pressure options, which normals / tool to use in which situations. Would anyone be kind enough to give me an up to date primer on Rachel's current meta and her tools / options? I would really appreciate it a ton. Edit: Up to date by BBCS:EX standards. I can catch up with the CP stuff / theory as its not even out yet so its not like I actually have to catch up in terms of gameplay. Edited June 2, 2013 by The K1 Effect
TD Posted June 2, 2013 Posted June 2, 2013 there is nothing that can't be explained from watching N-O, probably the best rachel in the world currently or at least japan. her neutral is mostly the same. since you know what works and what doesn't between games, this should work decently. thats the video part. if you like reading, check out my updated version of the mixup/pressure guide here: http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?16117-CSE-Rachel-Mix-ups-Pressure-Compendium-%28Restored-ver-%29 it has all the info you need for opening people up. lastly there is sakaku's (also updated) guide that covers the zoning and defense aspect of the neutral, here: http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?14170-CSE-Rachel-Gameplay-Guide combined there is pretty much nothing these guides don't cover. sakaku's looks prettier, lol - l hope you don't mind my bland text, i'm not really into decorating.
The K1 Effect Posted June 3, 2013 Posted June 3, 2013 Thank you sir, very much appreciated. Are there any special properties to her moves that I should know about / how to use them? Or is all of that covered in the links you posted?
samthegreat Posted June 3, 2013 Posted June 3, 2013 (edited) I think I will read the Rachel bible again, it was pretty sexy. Edit: 1位： 時崎 狂三〈Nightmare〉 レイチェル 19段 1st fucking place N-O why you so godlike? Edited June 3, 2013 by samthegreat
TD Posted June 3, 2013 Posted June 3, 2013 has N-O fought a high ranking hazama player in a video? l'd like to see how he deals with haz chains.
Venussail91 Posted June 6, 2013 Posted June 6, 2013 Quick question and sorry if it's been answered, but have any players found a good use for the vertical version of her lotus move? I only ever see the horizontal one in videos. Also, what's the general opinion on the lotus move being used for oki over frog or pumpkin?
Tari Posted June 6, 2013 Posted June 6, 2013 There's been some experimentation with the use of vertical lotus for j.2C combos and other stuff, but I don't believe anything really concrete has come out of it yet. As for oki, lotus is a pretty reasonable long-range oki option. At close range with knockdown, I'd probably stick with frog and pumpkin.
Venussail91 Posted June 9, 2013 Posted June 9, 2013 Anyone else think the Relius matchup is looking more difficult in CP? It seems like his new tools are really helping his matchup with Rachel, which sucks since it seemed pretty even before.
gamester Posted June 10, 2013 Posted June 10, 2013 has N-O fought a high ranking hazama player in a video? l'd like to see how he deals with haz chains. Not sure what you'd like in terms of high ranking but after a quick browse through the video thread I found 3 Hazama matches (all 10 Dan or over if it's any help that N-O has fought) in the following Dan order. Dan: 15: HZ (Aru) Vs RC (N-O) Dan: 10: HZ Vs RC (N-O) Dan: 13: HZ Vs RC (N-O) Sorry, I didn't add the dates here. Hope these I picked out are ok (I didn't watch them btw but N-O nonetheless). Unless you've checked them already xD
samthegreat Posted June 12, 2013 Posted June 12, 2013 HZ matchup doesn't seem as annoying as before now that we can do IOHs and take advantage of his terrible defensive options. Even max range 6B 3D j.A j.B si really fast and works flawlessly. Get him to the corner and run the 50/50 oki train. When's BBCP.
TD Posted June 12, 2013 Posted June 12, 2013 agreed. btw, thanks gamester for looking for the vids, those are what l was looking for.
samthegreat Posted June 12, 2013 Posted June 12, 2013 There's also this one (Ao Kinoko) RC Vs HZ (Kaqn) x5 Not N-O but decent enough.
TD Posted June 12, 2013 Posted June 12, 2013 thanks rolling against rachel in the corner is pretty much impossible now... there is no escape rofl
gamester Posted June 12, 2013 Posted June 12, 2013 btw, thanks gamester for looking for the vids, those are what l was looking for. No problem, happy to help out If anyone else would like to find a specific match up and player/s, I don't mind checking through the video thread and pulling them out.
TD Posted June 13, 2013 Posted June 13, 2013 new (though unofficial) tier lists rachel at a+ in the first position. may mean shes the closet to top tier or may not have a particular order. either way, this is the highest hime has been since old ct
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