BBCP Story Thread [Old]

[kylehyde]

If there going to wrap up S7 and The Six Heroes story, could that mean that Tager and Hakumen won't be in the last game? Maybe Tager will be replaced by Kokonoe.

[Jason D.]

Oh hey, there's a thread here. And now that someone brings it up, I've been wondering about Ragna's eye coloring for a long time now. Specifically, people on this site who insist that Rachel only bit Ragna ONCE, in ONE time loop. What, exactly, is the source for this?

As mentioned last page, there's this text in-game:

"With eyes like jade, she stares at me.

Those eyes remind me of my sins...

...of a far, distant past.

The boy whose blood I drank...the only one...

The day I sunk my fangs into an innocent, helpless human.

The day I had no choice but to act as the vampire I am.

My first and last...

...sweet, sweet sin..."

It mentions "the only one", however this seems to very obviously be referring to Ragna himself, and not her only biting him once.

At the end, she states "My first and last .... sin." However, this "sin" could be her referring to when she stooped down to her vampire nature, and not the actual bite itself. She already feels morally defeated ever since she first did this. Doesn't mean she cares if she has to keep doing it. Also, do note that at the top she says "Those eyes remind me of my sins". Sins. Plural. So there IS more than one sin she committed? In direct contrast to her statement of absolute finality at the end?

And thirdly, much less importantly, she also mentions "The day I..." a couple times. And once again it just sounds like she's just reminiscing about that first day when she had to debase herself, and not saying that there was only one day when it happened. And not to mention "the day" could simply be her speaking chronologically about the current timeline, or even not, since it always would happen on "the SAME day" in every time loop anyway. Whatever.

Anyway, so the only other thing I know of that mentions Rachel biting Ragna is the one short story, which can be found somewhere around this site if anyone wants to looks it up. But if I may sum up, it very specifically mentions that she was going to bite him, and that right after this bite is exactly when his eye turned red. Though obviously people would argue that this story is a story of the very first time loop where she had to bite him, and not the other time loops where he lived because ???????????. I also find it very important to note that this story does not seem to indicate that this is the very first time Rachel has ever seen the dying Ragna. In fact, she seems quite jaded to the situation. For instance, she's not panicking in the least, as one might expect from someone who had to pull a desperate act because she couldn't think of this secondary other way of saving him. She's just standing around calmly, mocking him, and even teleporting around his grievously messed up body that could expire at any time. Oh yeah, and there's this little gem near the top of the short story:

"Rachel waited in still silence. For their first meeting. That was a day in the life of Rachel. A day in the life of a girl who experienced endless rewindings of time."

And after that line she gathers Nago and Gii, and teleports off to the church to save Ragna. But yeah, that line especially is indicating that this story is NOT the first time loop.

Eh, and also, perhaps this isn't worth mentioning, but Rachel does have red eyes. And while red eyes aren't exactly unheard of in anime works, BlazBlue does seem to be showing that it is the eye color of choice for vampires. And Ragna does have one normal-colored eye, and one eye that's the same red as Rachel's. Symbolism much?

Anyway, so yeah, I've always been under the impression that Ragna was bitten by Rachel and is some sort of half-vampire, as based on the above sources and the game itself. Though every now and then I see a story thread on this site where people say that he was only bit during one time loop. To which I again ask, what are YOUR sources for this theory of it only happening once?

[BladeOfJustice7]

If there going to wrap up S7 and The Six Heroes story, could that mean that Tager and Hakumen won't be in the last game? Maybe Tager will be replaced by Kokonoe.

Just because it finished their stories doesn't mean they won't be relevant to the game anymore.

[Blade]

Can someone explain why BloodEdge is supposedly blind in his red eye once he has the Azure Grimoire taken from him?

Why is that linked to his condition originating from Rachel?

[Elochai]

Didn't the grimoire turn his eye red, or some such? I believe that's why he goes blind, since his eye is linked the Azure.

[Alpha to Omega]

Anyway, so yeah, I've always been under the impression that Ragna was bitten by Rachel and is some sort of half-vampire, as based on the above sources and the game itself. Though every now and then I see a story thread on this site where people say that he was only bit during one time loop. To which I again ask, what are YOUR sources for this theory of it only happening once?

It's stated in the Settings Material Collection, outside of her short story, that she only bit him once.

[harmless kitten]

Oh hey, there's a thread here. And now that someone brings it up, I've been wondering about Ragna's eye coloring for a long time now.

It's not from the bite at all. It's from the Azure Grimoire. I'm not sure exactly where people got the half-vampire thing at all, really, even though I once believed it myself. It seems like it developed within the time span from CT arcade to CT console; someone made it up (or believed incorrectly) and people ran with it.

Specifically, people on this site who insist that Rachel only bit Ragna ONCE, in ONE time loop. What, exactly, is the source for this?

It's never stated directly in any of the games (and I don't exactly have a quote to pull from one of the Setting Material Collections to support it), but it really doesn't seem like she did at all.

Doesn't mean she cares if she has to keep doing it.

Not quite, she gets embarrassed and dismayed when she brings it up.

Sins. Plural. So there IS more than one sin she committed?

Translation flub

And thirdly, much less importantly, she also mentions "The day I..." a couple times. And once again it just sounds like she's just reminiscing about that first day when she had to debase herself, and not saying that there was only one day when it happened. And not to mention "the day" could simply be her speaking chronologically about the current timeline, or even not, since it always would happen on "the SAME day" in every time loop anyway. Whatever.

Not seeing it

Anyway, so the only other thing I know of that mentions Rachel biting Ragna is the one short story, which can be found somewhere around this site if anyone wants to looks it up. But if I may sum up, it very specifically mentions that she was going to bite him, and that right after this bite is exactly when his eye turned red.

Sort of, she mentions it, stops as she gets a little flustered, and then looks down at him. It's never mentioned whether she actually bites him or not, and given that Ragna's life is saved by him contacting the Azure Grimoire (which she seems to have unsealed), there's really no need for her to bite him at all.

Eh, and also, perhaps this isn't worth mentioning, but Rachel does have red eyes. And while red eyes aren't exactly unheard of in anime works, BlazBlue does seem to be showing that it is the eye color of choice for vampires. And Ragna does have one normal-colored eye, and one eye that's the same red as Rachel's. Symbolism much?

His eye is red from the Azure Grimoire. He uses only his right eye to search for the Azure Grimoire, it becomes blind in Phase 0 along with his right arm becoming useless. If anything you could say it's symbolism for hosting the Azure Grimoire since Ragna's, Nu's, and the Black Beast itself are all associated with glowing red against black.

Anyway, so yeah, I've always been under the impression that Ragna was bitten by Rachel and is some sort of half-vampire, as based on the above sources and the game itself. Though every now and then I see a story thread on this site where people say that he was only bit during one time loop. To which I again ask, what are YOUR sources for this theory of it only happening once?

Even if she bit him there's not any evidence at all for Ragna being half-vampire, aside from a single unused voice clip.

[Jason D.]

It's stated in the Settings Material Collection, outside of her short story, that she only bit him once.

And do you, or anyone else, have the line in which is said? Translated or otherwise?

And... ugh. I don't really want to respond to the next post, but oh well, here goes. Just note that your own personal theory and interpretation is fine and all, but in most cases taking things at face value tends to be far more accurate. Facts: There is an official story written, in which it was declared that it was not the first time loop. Rachel asks a dying Ragna if it's alright if she sucks his blood, and says that it will stop his bleeding. Then she feels bad thinking about it, and her cheeks flush red. I see the latter as quite reminiscent of when a girl is about to "kiss" a boy that she secretly likes. (For reference: Every shojo manga ever.) Fade to black. Some time passes. Ragna is now doing slightly better, HIS EYE HAS JUST TURNED RED, and he wanders over and touches the Azure. And becomes Super Ragna.

Now yes, perhaps right after she says that, Rachel was like "Oh wait, you know what? Nevermind!", and then hands him a Senzu Bean. But either way, he got a red eye from what Rachel did to him, long before he ever touched the Grimoire.

I'm also curious why you're not sure where people "got the half-vampire thing" from. Aside from the story mentioned above, and his general appearance, there's also the text at the very beginning of the first game where she blatantly states that she bit him. As quoted recently by someone else, and then myself about five posts ago. So yes, people get this impression because the game said that it happened. Pretty simple. You yourself even seem to be aware of an unused dialogue line, that myself and most others are probably not even aware of, that also confirms this. So his character WAS created with this backstory in mind, eh?

Anyway, while it wouldn't be surprising for a work of fiction to get retconned, I'm still curious if anyone can provide any text that states that this is the case. Because so far from everything I've read and played, the game has been screaming "She bit him!" pretty loudly. In case you're still wondering why EVERYBODY gets this impression, even people who don't hack into unused sound files. And again, I just want a quote, not a creative personal interpretation. I was done with those ever since the endless debates about how FF7's ending really meant that humanity was destroyed. (Teehee, I wonder if those people enjoyed the sequels?)

Eh, and since I'm here, to answer Blade's question, Bloodedge the Time-Warped goes blind in his right eye since that's where the Azure's power is concentrated. Even after Rachel bites him, or casts Hoimi on him or whatever, he's still in pretty bad shape. Possibly still critical. He then touches the Azure, and get healed up, grows a right arm, and so on. So when this power is taken away, since it's mostly focused on his right side, that side gets messed up.

[Vulcan422]

I thought this was the Chrono Phantasma Story Thread.

What the fuck does Bloodedge have to do with CP?

[harmless kitten]

And do you, or anyone else, have the line in which is said? Translated or otherwise?

And... ugh. I don't really want to respond to the next post, but oh well, here goes. Just note that your own personal theory and interpretation is fine and all, but in most cases taking things at face value tends to be far more accurate.

Taking things at face value also means that you can't assume he was bitten in every timeline either.

Now yes, perhaps right after she says that, Rachel was like "Oh wait, you know what? Nevermind!", and then hands him a Senzu Bean. But either way, he got a red eye from what Rachel did to him, long before he ever touched the Grimoire.

I said it was linked to the grimoire, not necessarily that he got it exactly when he touched it.

I'm also curious why you're not sure where people "got the half-vampire thing" from.

Because there is actually nothing inside the game or any other piece of material that supports it. It was fanwanked way, way back when BB was still young and the story was vague. Why would he become a half-vampire just from being bitten anyway? There's not even anything in BB that says whether or not half-vampires can exist. People jumped to conclusions based on Ragna's white hair and red eye. The game itself doesn't ever bring up the possibility that Ragna is anything other than a human

if an artificial one

. That's why I express confusion over how the half-vampire thing got around everywhere. I used to believe it too, I just think it seems so damn flimsy in retrospect and yet almost everyone believed it for a time. (People used to say that his drive was related to his vampiric power too, and it's obviously not with more info on the Azure Grimoire.)

Aside from the story mentioned above, and his general appearance, there's also the text at the very beginning of the first game where she blatantly states that she bit him. As quoted recently by someone else, and then myself about five posts ago. So yes, people get this impression because the game said that it happened. Pretty simple. You yourself even seem to be aware of an unused dialogue line, that myself and most others are probably not even aware of, that also confirms this. So his character WAS created with this backstory in mind, eh?

I was that someone else, so yes I know. The text is from Rachel's arcade ending. People get the impression he's half-vampire because she bit him, but like I said there's no confirmation. The voice clip is not exactly confirmation. I don't remember the particular number of the voice clip, but Ragna says, "I'm not suckin' your blood 'cause it tastes good!" You don't even have to hack into it. It's right there in the sound gallery of CT. (It actually might be used after all. I can't remember.)

No one's arguing that she never bit him. I'm only arguing that she only bit him once.

Eh, and since I'm here, to answer Blade's question, Bloodedge the Time-Warped goes blind in his right eye since that's where the Azure's power is concentrated. Even after Rachel bites him, or casts Hoimi on him or whatever, he's still in pretty bad shape. Possibly still critical. He then touches the Azure, and get healed up, grows a right arm, and so on. So when this power is taken away, since it's mostly focused on his right side, that side gets messed up.

that's so silly

Why would it affect solely his arm and eye then? The arm is obvious. But why just the eye then? Ragna's right leg works fine. He can move the rest of his body on the right side. So for whatever reason, he just loses function of his eye. I dunno about you, but it seems easier to come to the conclusion that his eye is intrinsically linked to the Azure Grimoire than it is to potential vampirism.

If you want to take the most nitpicky, purist stance, there is nothing that hard confirms whether or not Rachel bit him or not outside of a single, previous timeline. There is nothing that confirms Ragna is a half-vampire, as it's never brought up in the game itself and never touched upon. Your post is just as much interpretation as my own.

Speaking of which, there's some weird shit I think needs pointing out. Bloodedge gave Celica and Jubei his sword and jacket before he sacrificed himself, but when Celica later enters the Black Beast in Phase Shift 3 the Ragna she encounters in there still has his jacket. Inconsistent bullshit right there.

It teleports! Considering the jacket and shirt seem to recover any cut, mark, or damage, I can easily accept a teleporting jacket

I thought this was the Chrono Phantasma Story Thread.

What the fuck does Bloodedge have to do with CP?

Lack of an active general story thread means that any and all story discussion is likely going to take place in this thread for a while.

[Tokkan]

I thought this was the Chrono Phantasma Story Thread.

What the fuck does Bloodedge have to do with CP?

What the fuck does Rachel biting Ragna have to do with CP?

[Alpha to Omega]

And do you, or anyone else, have the line in which is said? Translated or otherwise?

From the old Settings Material Collection thread:

Other confusing things I found in the notes:

- Rachel: it's said that she bit Ragna only once, during one of the earliest loop (?). Is this right? If I'm not mistaken, throughout Rachel's story, she didn't bit Ragna, did she?

Edited November 5, 2012 by Alpha to Omega

[Chaoschao222]

I thought this was the Chrono Phantasma Story Thread.

I normally don't care what gets discussed here so long as it's BB-game related and doesn't reach stupid territory. Like, if you wanna discuss Litchi's decisions to join NOL in CS and how that may affect her in the future, go for it, that's on-topic enough. But yes, I like things to at least be somewhat relevant to Chrono Phantasma...

That said, shit's delving closer to short stories-thread's domain, as well as getting close to stupid territory, since from what I can see, we're just having theory wars at this point. Since this Ragna stuff is more or less irrelevant right now, unless you have facts to back up your argument, I'd like it if this topic was dropped, because yeah, it doesn't matter, has nothing to do with Chrono Phantasma, and these walls of text are just clutter.

Edited November 5, 2012 by Chaoschao222

[Jason D.]

From the old Settings Material Collection thread:

Other confusing things I found in the notes:

- Rachel: it's said that she bit Ragna only once, during one of the earliest loop (?). Is this right? If I'm not mistaken, throughout Rachel's story, she didn't bit Ragna, did she?

Yeah, I remember this stuff too from back in the day, but I never remember hearing any confirmation of it. And then this always seems to come up whenever people mention him being part-vampire. Someone says "Actually, she only bit him the first time", and then a lot of other people go "Really? I didn't know that", which gets concluded with "Yeah, I heard it somewhere from some guy and I think it's in some Japanese thing I've never read."

I'm mostly just curious for an exact line since I want to know if random old posts about it like the above actually are legit, or it's just a Japanese reading error. The poster himself isn't even sure, and as mentioned before her story does say things like "My first and last sin" and "the only one", so it could be quite easy for someone to have misread such a line.

And... I'm mostly going to ignore the strangely overly defensive poster. I don't know what else to tell you. The story specifically and blatantly says "she bit him". If you want to add a conditional statement to this, then that's on you. "She bit him (but only during the first time loop.)" "She bit him (but it was actually his evil twin, Angar)." "She bit him (but then she woke up from this horrible nightmare. It was all a dream!)." Honesty, I don't care. But you seem hell-bent on believing what you want to believe, so have fun with that. I'd personally go with the evil twin one, though. It's funnier.

And may I remind you, you still haven't addressed the issue of her short story (which specifically says that it is NOT the first time loop, as well as him having a red eye BEFORE ever touching the Grimoire), in which she says she is going to suck his blood, asks if that's okay with him, and then thinks about it in a way that indicates that it's about to happen. While the scene does fade to black during the gory details, I find it hard to believe that she suddenly stopped, they both decided to play a rousing game of Patty-Cake, and then he started feeling better. Chances are the next moment was the exact thing that was mentioned previously by the story.

And... wow, I shouldn't have Googled this. Damn my curiosity. So hey, Harmless Kitten, it seems that YOU are SPECIFICALLY the one who started that rumor that she only bit him once, approximately two years ago. Amazing. I love you, internet!

References:

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?7278-BlazBlue-Setting-Material-Collection-Information/page59

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?7278-BlazBlue-Setting-Material-Collection-Information/page76

And a quick link to Rachel's story, for the lazy. Translated by a very capable man:

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?9788-Blazblue-Short-stories&p=727323&viewfull=1#post727323

Some highlights:

From page 59, our new buddy p-kun did indeed talk a lot about that scene, as well as everything in general, but apparently he was indeed having a hard time reading it all properly, and even admitted such. For just one example, he states this: "Rachel drew magic circle at the beginning. The magic circle glowed in blue and then consumed Ragna or sth. But Ragna's condition actually worsened after that. And then a few hours later, Ragna woke up by himself" If you read the currently translated story, he's missing a big part in the middle. Such as the entire part that mentions biting.

Slightly lower on page 59, here's Harmless Kitten: "Rachel talks about biting Ragna in her arcade. Although she does imply that it only happened once ("The day I sunk my fangs into an innocent, helpless human. The day I had no choice but to act as the vampire I am. My first and last…sweet, sweet sin…"), so yeah, that would be the first loop." So Harmless Kitten claims that it WAS because of an interpretation of the poem in arcade mode, as analyzed previously, and not from somewhere in the Material Collection that stated this interpretation as fact.

On page 76, here's Black Onslaught: "It's confirmed Rachel bit Ragna to save his life after his arm was hacked off, and he was y'know bleeding out and dying on the ground. Since she did this in the original timeline, I assume it carries over in the other ones due to her " acting as an Observer to the Boundary." So that is his definite impression of the short story (for what that's worth.) That she is "confirmed" to bite him. Only he's wrong about one thing, it wasn't the first loop. My previous post explains why this story isn't the first time loop. But the story does indeed give the impression to the reader that she bites him. In a non-first-time-loop scenario.

Slightly lower on page 76, from Harmless Kitten: "Rachel never bites Ragna in her short story though. I think--think, don't quote me on this--she draws a magic circle around him, it glows blue, sometime later Ragna....sort of wakes up, but not really, only his right (now red) eye open." Incorrect, of course. In fact, that sounds like the same lacking story that p-kun had as he was trying to understand the text.

Next paragraph of the same post: "But....I'm not sure anymore. The whole vampirism issue is, iirc, never talked about aside from Rachel's CT arcade ending, and that's only "oh yeah once I bit a boy with jade eyes. Felt good, man." You are correct, that is the only place it's mentioned in-game. I really only highlight this because it makes me question your reading comprehension skills...

So yeah, after a little more research, this entire thing about only one time loop seems to stem first from p-kun's poor Japanese from when he tried to read the short story, and then got expounded by Harmless Kitten's own confusion about her CT Arcade Mode text mentioning phrases like "only" and "first and last sin." And now give this rumor two years, and even his own uncertainty has started to convince itself into a hard fact.

And finally... wow. Let me step back a second. Is this for real? Did I REALLY just uncover the exact origin point of a rumor? ...Is that even possible? I love you so much, internet!

But yeah, that's the "evidence" thus far of Rachel only biting in one time loop. All hearsay and misunderstandings. It's just as accurate as saying "She bit him every time and the vampire fluids healed his body, but then it later flowed out of him." (Totally possible, by the way!) But if anyone has the book and wants to give us a line that supports this, then seriously, PLEASE do. Because for now, I'm chalking up this theory as a giant "NOPE". It says she bit him, and in a non-first-time-loop. Therefore, that happened. If you want to argue otherwise, please provide evidence and references. I care not for filling in the perceived blanks.

But if you insist, seriously, go with Rachel playing Patty-Cake with his evil twin brother. It's funnier.

Edited November 5, 2012 by Jason D.

[Chaoschao222]

So to fucking conclude. If you don't listen to me, you get a warning, and work your way closer to an infraction.

[harmless kitten]

I really only highlight this because it makes me question your reading comprehension skills...

It was a joke, dude. A joke I made over two years ago.

Sorry, I'll drop it.

Anyway, to get on topic,

Celica's return

means that Kushinada's lynchpin can be used in CP huh?

Considering that her father intended to use her as the key of a weapon to "nail the entrance to the Boundary shut" and cut off seithr flow in exchange for her life.

That doesn't bode well if Relius finds out, especially if he gets his hands on her.

Will it be possible to get arcade story footage of CP once it comes out in however many days, or is the no recording rule in many arcades going to shut this down?

[Chaoschao222]

We've always managed to get Arcade Mode footage of the games shortly after they get released (well the CS series, anyways, dunno 'bout CT), so I assume the same will hold true for Chrono Phantasma.

[TheBossGiga]

stuff

that was tight...

[Starlight777]

It will be nice to have completely different endings other than "X character fails to defeat Terumi, then Mu appears." again. That's if those images in the opening are anything to go by.

[Tokkan]

ASW have been clamping down on story footage getting put up in the last year or so. We can't guarantee any CP arcade mode story footage that gets put up does not get taken down due to ASW flagging for copyright.

Something I want to talk about is the setting of CP, Ikaruga. The cities of the Ikaruga Federation (イカルガ連邦) were collectively referred to in Extend as the Allied/United Hierarchical Cities of Ikaruga (連合階層都市イカルガ).

Ikaruga is in fact 5 cities (technically 6, but Akitsu is a special case):

The 5th Hierarchical City Ibukido

The 6th Hierarchical City Yabiko

The 7th Hierarchical City Kazamotsu

The 8th Hierarchical City Wadatsumi

The 9th/10th Hierarchical City Akitsu

From loketest videos/photos where stage info has been shown, most stages in CP appear to be in Yabiko, while a few are in Ibukido and Wadatsumi. Kazamotsu and Akitsu are left out, at least for the arcade version.

Of note, the Mutsuki family of the Duodecim may be involved in the plot of CP as they were put in charge of overseeing Ibukido after the war and had a falling out with the NOL because of it. They were even mentioned in Makoto's story.

[Starlight777]

Isn't Platinum from Ibukido?

[Jason D.]

that was tight...

Thanks! I liked my post from today afternoon even better, but apparently you can't see it anymore. But it was basically just to mention that I have presented my evidence, and to remind and encourage people to present any counter-evidence.

[Tokkan]

Isn't Platinum from Ibukido?

Yep, she is.

[harmless kitten]

Thanks! I liked my post from today afternoon even better, but apparently you can't see it anymore. But it was basically just to mention that I have presented my evidence, and to remind and encourage people to present any counter-evidence.

I think you need to take it easy. You got really riled up about it in your deleted post. Not like the whole argument has any relevance on the story anyway.

Isn't Platinum from Ibukido?

9th Hierarchical City of Akitsu. At least, that was what was listed on her profile last time I checked.

edit: Oh it's Ibukido now? Argh, I thought all they changed was her birthday.

Edited November 5, 2012 by harmless kitten

[Tokkan]

9th Hierarchical City of Akitsu. At least, that was what was listed on her profile last time I checked.

The "backstory" part of her profile says she lives in Ibukido.

edit: Oh it's Ibukido now? Argh, I thought all they changed was her birthday.

No, you're right, but Akitsu is listed as where she was originally from (place of birth). Which is not the same as her current home.

Edited November 5, 2012 by Tokkan