[CP] Amane Nishiki Gameplay Discussion

[Bedsheets]

Looking like I won't be able to play too much this weekend but I did get a bit of vs CPU action in earlier today. Mostly just getting some basic stuff into muscle memory but I did have a couple interesting finds.

I was curious as to how OD interacted with amane's 632146C super. We knew it scaled with level, and that OD made it stronger, but, when you OD it takes time for your drill meter to reach level 3, what happens if you do your super under OD but the drill is not level 3? Unfortunately, a level 1 OD super does not do 3.5k. It does 1.9k (instead of 1.5k) and launches the enemy a lot lower than the level 3. The OD adds the explosions that do extra damage, but how many extra explosions is based on your drill meter level. After seeing people use the invulnerability of OD to evade moves, I was hoping that we could always be able to do OD 632146C (back to back invulnerability) to punish certain moves for 3.5k. It is still a thing we can do but, how much damage we will get is based on drill level.

I also learned that you can do this combo: level 3 drill: 5B>5D>Over Drive Cancel (ODC?)>632146C for 4k damage. Well, I got it to redbeat doing 3.8k and I had it bluebeat when it did 4k. I think that was just a timing error on my part, but, it is possible that if you let too many hits of the 5B and 5D connect that the combo may drop. You can potentially combo afterwards as well, but, both times I did the combo it killed my opponent so I did not get to try.

I remember seeing Shadow do a combo like XX>j.236C>RC>632146C which is nice to finish out a round but does require 100 meter. I believe you should be able to substitute the RC for an ODC if you need extra damage or don't have the 100 meter.

I think that is it for now, I feel like I am forgetting something but, maybe not.

[soujiro seta]

^That is good news to me.

Am I the only one who isn't hoping for loops? Loops are soooo.....

..zzzzzz...

I hope so too. I play carl, and I hate his current 3D loop, and wish arc would remove it. It's makes a character so braindead boring.

I can't believe I'm liking amane this much. I was able to watch some amane vids b4 work today, and they were very exciting. Haven't anticipated a character this much since CT launch in the US so I could play carl.

[Rishtopher]

I hope so too. I play carl, and I hate his current 3D loop, and wish arc would remove it. It's makes a character so braindead boring.

I can't believe I'm liking amane this much. I was able to watch some amane vids b4 work today, and they were very exciting. Haven't anticipated a character this much since CT launch in the US so I could play carl.

lol I feel the same way, I think it's because his play style seems kinda different compared to what I'm used to. Though I'm surprised he's as popular as he is (at least it feels like he's popular on DL?)

Also, Bedsheets, have you had a chance to play against all of the currently released characters? Do you know if Amane has any special battle intros?

[NumeroGaijin]

Given the speed of our DD is it possible to combo DD into another DD on a level 3 drill?

[Bedsheets]

It is not possible because the DD causes the drill to overheat on hit or block, and therefore you can't do either of Amane's DDs back to back. Even though 632146C is done with C and not D it is still fully tied to Amane's drill meter.

Rishtopher: I have not had a chance to play against all of the characters, and most people mash start and skip the character intros anyway. I think he might have a special intro with Bullet? Not sure. Probably has a special intro with Carl based on his story.

[Boodendorf]

I haven't been quite active on this website but since I saw videos of it from the japanese arcades and the like got me pretty hyped. Especially for Amane. But here's the problem: When EX came out, I wanted to main Relius (Because he's handsome and got that cool voice). Thing is, I never got myself ex and have no idea if I would have liked him. I still have (and play with a friend) CS2 but in this game I don't have a real main, mostly played Ragna for how easy he was to use, I wasn't having that much fun though with him. Anyway I want a fixed main so I'll get better at the game, because I love this fighter to death.

I have a few questions to ask (I'm not sure if I should have posted it in the Q&A thread but err at worst I'll just delete the post):

So far, what's your general thoughts about Amane? (Aside from the fact that he's manly as hell and screams particularly wel- *cough* I mean, has a great voice in japanese)

How's he under pressure?

Thoughts about best/worst matchups?

How would you compare him and Relius?

Thanks for answering.

[FatalCounter]

I don't have a real main, mostly played Ragna for how easy he was to use, I wasn't having that much fun though with him. Anyway I want a fixed main so I'll get better at the game, because I love this fighter to death.

I have a few questions to ask (I'm not sure if I should have posted it in the Q&A thread but err at worst I'll just delete the post):

So far, what's your general thoughts about Amane? (Aside from the fact that he's manly as hell and screams particularly wel- *cough* I mean, has a great voice in japanese)

How's he under pressure?

Thoughts about best/worst matchups?

How would you compare him and Relius?

Thanks for answering.

No problem and forgive me for my english, I am not a native english speaker.

As a relius player, I can tell you some things. Relius is one of the funniest character to play as. All his combos are very inventive and damaging when you associate Ignis with. Almost all Duo Dance combos ( the name I give to Relius combos) aren't character specific so they will work on almost every character. At the beginning, you will find him very difficult because you have to control relius and some Ignis moves at the almost same time, but compare to carl, he is way easier. You have to persist though. You will also feel like you are playing 2 characters at the same time, but after few weeks (if you are good) or some months (if not that good. It took me 2 months to adapt to his gameplay) you will get used to and play like relius and Ignis as a same character. You always have to watch out Ignis health and release her when it is low, you will understand it and get used to with the time.

His playstyle is strong with Ignis active, he also has a fast and long range 5B (8 frames) and other good pokes like his 2C anti air. But he has some problems vs few rushdown characters like Valk, Makoto, Taokaka or Tsubaki, so you will have to find some ways to get out of pressure. Relius is so good to play as, try him when you will buy the game.

All new players have to try Ragna, He is too simple, I don't find him exciting at all however, he has great simple damaging combos.

I believe that Amane has the same style as Relius but easier since he doesn't rely on anything else compare to Relius that relies on Ignis for big damage. If you want to play Amane, you will have to work on your movement (As a Tsubaki player, I love moving around the screen).

I think Amane is a really good character, but he need much time in the lab before you can see his true potential. He has the same problem as Relius vs good rushdown characters or good zoners. Fill the Drill gauge up to level 3 is the key for big damage and incredible cheap damage. Zettou moves are the key of his movement since almost all his normal moves are special cancellable. We all love him over here. lol.

BTW if you want to play an easy and good character, better play Jin or Hakumen. Tsubaki is good too but you will train a bit harder before doing her flashy combos. Learning of a character you actually like is easier. Relius is much more better in this version (he was a good low-tier in extend). All Amane combos aren't difficult but it seems like the timing is very important in order to link some moves.

Edited December 1, 2012 by FatalCounter

[SolarMisae]

How's he under pressure?

He doesn't have a meteless reversal, and isn't too good under pressure. So far his only reliable reversal move is Seijuu. Otherwise you have to be good at finding an opening in your opponents to try to poke out, or move away safely.

Thoughts about best/worst matchups?

I don't think we really have much to go on as far as what his matchups are actually looking like right now. We thought Haz was gonna be bad but a recent video, like Shin said in a previous post, the players made it look pretty even. However I'm gonna assume very fast or highly mobile characters like Taokaka or Valkenhayn will make us wanna rip our hair out sometimes haha. His moves are slow overall and I think he'll suffer from the same sorta shortcomings characters like Mu have against them in that we'll have a hard time getting momentum on them. I can't really figure on what his best matchups are going to be just yet, but Tager seems like he may be one of them if we wanna go with seemingly obvious choices. However, considering drills are considered projectiles it might not be as easy as we may have hoped. Other good matchups might be characters that have some trouble getting in like Makoto, maybe Noel. We'll probably be able to keep them out with Ds fairly easily.

How would you compare him and Relius?

I'm gonna have to say I have absolutely no idea on how they'll compare, but it seems the poster above me knows..and I'm sure Toasty will have some insight on this one as well.

[Boodendorf]

snip

A character being simple or difficult isn't completely what made me pick Ragna as a main in CS2. I picked him because he had Gintoki's voice, white hair and dlc color (which I actually did get because Gintoki's da man), otherwise I wasn't really interested in his gameplay, same with every other characters. If he didn't have that, I probably would have learned Hazama because I liked him in the story. I did try out Taokaka later on though, and kept her as a second. It took me a few days to learn her 8D loop and then some more days to practice and learn her basic mixups and overall crazy movements. Relius looked interesting to me because of his awesome looking moveset(the jojo vibe and the fact that he's handsome being a plus). Amane is the same, got a particularly interesting looking gameplay and is just plain fabulous looking with an amazing voice.

I'm happy to hear that Amane's gameplay is somewhat similar to Relius', it means that after I feel like I'm using decently as a main one of the character, I can pick up the other as a second.

snap

How reliable is Seijuu? Is it safe on block?

I figured Tager would have a hard time against Amane, and was expecting Tao/Valk to be hard. It's cool that's it looks pretty even against haz, makes up for some great matches (saw that shadow vs buppa's haz video). I'm surprised about Makoto and noel though.

Will wait for more infos, but still thanks.

Edited December 1, 2012 by Boodendorf

[SolarMisae]

What about that super that looks like carnage scissor, but with more invincibility? I saw it being used on wake up sometimes in the videos. Also, are his supers important or can I just keep meter to alpha counter to deal with pressure?

I figured Tager would have a hard time against Amane, and was expecting Tao/Valk to be hard. It's cool that's it looks pretty even against haz, makes up for some great matches (saw that shadow vs buppa's haz video). I'm surprised about Makoto and noel though.

Will wait for more infos, but still thanks.

The super is Seijuu, I mentioned it in my post. And that super isn't terribly good outside of being used as an occasional reversal/wakeup reversal because it's overall damage is pretty weak, and we auto-overheat the drill gauge using it. We have better ways to spend meter, so his supers aren't terribly high priority unless you know you'll kill with them or you're getting out of a tight situation. Goukai when the opponent is low on barrier meter is always fun though...

But yeah overall you'll probably be spending more meter on counter assaults and RCs than on his supers.

Edited December 1, 2012 by SolarMisae

[Eternal Blaze]

I'm a Relius main and I'm not seeing the similarity between him and Amane >__> Amane's movement options alone make him a completely different character. If they share something its that they both suck under pressure, thats about it though lol. Even then Relius has better options than Amane.

[Krusiv]

Really neat corner combo here.

[STenSatsu]

I think my favorite part of that is the 6b>airdash pick up. That looked super stylish and might be important for making combos.

[mAc Chaos]

I don't really see why people are making a big deal about a character being weak under pressure. I mean Valk and Tao are "weak under pressure" but they don't give a fuck because they're so good at everything else. Same with Arakune. So if Amane is in that category it wouldn't really matter.

But I don't think he is.

[FatalCounter]

The wolf attacks are the scariest things to deal with. His high low is incredibily fast that even top japanese can't block this 3 or 4 times, so fast. Generally a Ragna player will just DP it. Fortunaley (I don't know) It is difficult to find a good Valk player online.

The problem is that Amane is pretty slow, while Taokaka, the wolf and Makoto are quite fast. But I like the fact his jump is a floating jump like Hawkeye in Marvel so You have enough time to choose what you gonna do or you can fall down rapidly with j2B. This is the best way to fall quickly and punish your opponent in the air, Shadow was using it a lot.

We will see.

[Dream Maker]

I tried him a bit today and the hardest thing with this char IMO is to evaluate the distance properly with both C moves and drill stance. It's so easy to misestimate and get punished hard. Also I found him a bit confusing to play with the special hop move and for some reason I kept mixing up D and C attacks, maybe because C attacks are long range and I unconsciously think about Hazama while playing him.

Otherwise he's a very fun character to play as IMO and the combos don't seem too hard once you can get a grip on them. After a 236C in the corner you can easily add 5A, 6A, 623C. C aerial combos chain really well, I somehow thought it would be easy to miss with a timing mistake but I'm pleased to see I was wrong.

[WillWork4Instal]

The timing is easy? That's what I was hoping for. I was curious how late you had to input another move when he does that one C move where his crosses you over the screen. Good to know~

And its nice to note that when one Amane faced Hima's Valk, that his foward throw can be used and then 236B to hopefully make a decent combo.

[Boodendorf]

Learning the range of the C moves will come with habit, all of these news are great to hear.

I've been thinking, is it possible to combo after that air drill kick on a grounded opponent? Like with a rapid cancel (or without one)? Would it be worth it?

[Toasty]

I haven't seen it happen but I'd imagine it's possible. An RC wouldn't be necessary unless you were planning on continuing with another air move, which makes me wonder if a very low j.2B followup would be useful to go into a combo much larger than his typical ground strings.

Then again idk if an air D attack would even have enough hitstun to allow that to work, but I'm curious nonetheless.

[DerQ]

Back from NEC, hype weekend. Was cool meeting ShinSyn and Aloci. Now time to catch up on vids.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7uD2pFE1Do

Lots of stuff I've observed that I don't think have been brought up in this video.

@2min13 Shadow baits a DP with a backdash. He dashes in to get the punish and hesitated a few seconds. The combo he did off 5B CH seemed to be the safest and most reliable punish you could get but with a lower reward. I wondered if you could have gotten more and I saw it later in the video.

@3min24 Same setup, no backdash and plenty of time to use his j.Fatal move, dunno which one it is. Unfortunately he drops it, but this will probably be the best starter for close range punishes. Makes sense. Also, fabhop -> j.B > j.A looks fabulous at baiting DPs. I'm assuming that floaty j.B has trouble linking into ground attacks hence why players could DP right after it and blow up amane's who think it's a true blockstring. I'm certain there's a gap to be exploited and a good bait setup for us to use.

@2min18 He does the hariken drill and presses 6.C after. Is it just me or the startup looks VERY similar to 6.D? When he first did it, I assumed it was actually 6.D considering Hariken drill was out. I don't know if we could bait people into holding back thinking they'll eat a drill and just use that moment to reposition ourselves or do something else. It's about exactly what he does in the video right after. 6.C does look like it has less recovery. I'm not entirely sure it would be efficient unless your opponent is scared though.

@2min45 That super really comes out fast. Travels a long distance and could be a combo opener. I'm starting to think that finding setups that can be punished by this super could be crucial when playing with drill levels. It's an added threat that your opponent might not be aware of since he might not now what and what can't be punished. He'll also have to be more cautious because if your drill is leveled, for the same tool and ressources, you get a better reward. I really like this idea.

@2min53 I know this ain't really amane related, but look at how long the OD invincibility seems to last. Jesus christ.

@9min38 2things here:

First He baited backdash with hariken and actually confirmed into a decent combo that lead to another hariken oki. Decent damage, but great use of the drill and conversion

Second and most important one IMO Ragna then DPs the hariken oki. You can see that the attack actually hit the drill. So from this, we can assume that you can hit Amane's ground drill to nullify it???? He also rapids the DP and essentially escapes the whole OKI for 50 meter. I'm certain it could be baited, but it does look reliable when used up close. Also, since I assume you can't rapid on whiff (correct me peeps here if I'm mistaken) the drill does have a hurtbox that counts as if you'd hit a character with an attack.

[Starlight777]

Ragna can just DP out of the Hariken drills? Not surprised one bit by this.

[Aloci]

Back from NEC, hype weekend. Was cool meeting ShinSyn and Aloci. Now time to catch up on vids.

It was cool meeting the two of you as well. Hopefully I didn't come off as too annoying seeing as how I was basically drunk all weekend lol

Second and most important one IMO Ragna then DPs the hariken oki. You can see that the attack actually hit the drill. So from this, we can assume that you can hit Amane's ground drill to nullify it???? He also rapids the DP and essentially escapes the whole OKI for 50 meter. I'm certain it could be baited, but it does look reliable when used up close. Also, since I assume you can't rapid on whiff (correct me peeps here if I'm mistaken) the drill does have a hurtbox that counts as if you'd hit a character with an attack.

Hmm... Well if people (Ragna) try to escape the Oki with a DP, then wouldn't they still theoretically have to block a 6D?

I haven't actually watched the video to see the actually escape.

I'm assuming Amane would still be in his drill summoning animation though.

Of course if they don't rapid then we get a nice little counter/fatal

[DerQ]

Ragna can just DP out of the Hariken drills? Not surprised one bit by this.

Hmm... Well if people (Ragna) try to escape the Oki with a DP, then wouldn't they still theoretically have to block a 6D?

I haven't actually watched the video to see the actually escape.

I'm assuming Amane would still be in his drill summoning animation though.

Of course if they don't rapid then we get a nice little counter/fatal

Not just ragna, but there's a lot to note from this on hariken drills.

1st: You can hit the drill to nullify it. It remains visually there, but it seems to cancel it. In the same video, Ragna tries to hit a badly spaced drill with 2A and after seeing that segment, it makes more sense then whiffing a low poke at midscreen for no reason.

2nd: Since there's a hurtbox, you can trigger properties such as making an attack that whiffs into a blocked attack. This allows to trigger rapid cancels off a drill that's been hit. At close range like in the video, Ragna DPs a drill he was obviously about to eat and Shadow blocked and used barrier even though HE NEVER GOT HIT himself nor blocked the attack. You wouldn't do that at say midscreen Hariken for the simple the reason that you mentionned, 6D will hit you. But if you try anything at that range against a DP, you'll eat it and since he rapids, I assume you'd eat a certain amount of damage. So if the opponent has 50 meters, you are better off BLOCKING a few frames to see if he DPs and as soon as you can establish he did or actually decided to block the drill, you shouldn't press a button unless it is to get away or reposition yourself.

It was cool meeting the two of you as well. Hopefully I didn't come off as too annoying seeing as how I was basically drunk all weekend lol

Besides the obvious marvel casuals where you drank a bit, we didn't talk much and I was never under the impression that you were annoying.

[Chris Chaos]

Ragna can just DP out of the Hariken drills? Not surprised one bit by this.

Yeah, this happened in an earlier video a few days prior to NEC. I saw it and it didn't surprise me either.

EDIT: Yeah, it was cool to meet you both Aloci and DerQ, NEC was great.

[Toasty]

Using 50 meter to get out of an oki setup and not even guaranteeing that he will be able to continue pressure seems like a rather risky and expensive move on Ragna's part.

Ragna players will have the choice of either taking the oki or committing what might end up being most of their meter usage just to escape it, which is a win in itself.