[CP] Bullet Gameplay Discussion

[WintySoSolo]

ok i guess it's time for me to write down my thoughts because i'm bored to fuck.

things we know:
- 5D/jD now causes a bounce on hit and can be canceled into "throws": snaphance fist/snap hands fist(to be called "snap" from now on out), miquelet capture(to be called "capture"), and cutting sheer(to be called "sheer"). These moves will combo from the drive.
- 5D/jD on block without red lock now causes a bounceback which is VERY BAD.
- capture engage now wallslams, drive engage now wallbounces?(this is my understanding, I'm not sure. Does level 1 drive engage also wallbounce or only level 2?)
- you can cancel a whiffed capture if you want to
- bullet gets 6k meterless combos in the corner(From what starting heat? I'll assume H2. This is up from the 4.5k or so from previous combos.)

- charged flint shooter now moves foward


CRAZY SPECULATION THAT COULD EASILY BE ALL WRONG:

- bullet is even more momentum based and even more comeback-heavy.

sample scenario:
someone puts bullet in the corner and starts to pressure her. Bullet manages to mash 5A/2A out, does 2A 5B 5C 5D. Cancels 5D into snap. depending on spacing, snap could wallbound here, allowing bullet to afterburner.
This is an instant corner reversal where bullet now has H1/H2(depending on if she can get bound->afterburner or not) and her opponent in the corner, opening up big combo opportunities. Bigger than before, if her new routes are stronger.

Bullet has a lot of positional control after her combos.
We've talked about sheer. We can do sheer to end our combos to emulate our old okizeme setups because it's probably still the same knockdown as old drive.
What if we DON'T try to bring back the old and instead look at the new.
Bullet can sideswap after any combo.
Snap in neutral has been generally considered a winning read since we get either a free afterburner from it, or we get to put them in the air and then threaten them on the way down if they air tech. Bullet can, after any combo, toss the opponent behind her to switch positions now. There was never any reason to end a midscreen combo with empty snap before because we wanted heat, but now we get heat anyway and can do an air tech ender that swaps sides. This seems like it has potential. Maybe we even still get the safe afterburner from it, but that seems like a bit too much to hope for.
There's also the corner carry from capture, if we wanted to end with that. That's ALSO a "safe" afterburner or tech chase, based on past experience doing capture from neutral to grab projectiles even without the heat to engage.

Those are my thoughts on new enders.
Here's the other thing.
Let's look at new jD.
So, after a combo into 5D->Sheer, we get our old knockdown.
What if instead of doing our safejump, we went to the old stupid: jD crossup.
jD crossup is generally NOT GOOD currently because if it works, you get...another knockdown and a heat level. If it doesn't, you lose your heat. It's a low risk, low reward. Unless they DP your face. In which case you yell in frustration.
But what about now?
There's a high risk due to the bounceback. That's bad.
But there's a high reward. Since we're doing with with 1H, we can do jD into snap into engage into combo into jD into sheer into...jD crossup or whatever else we want.
It's high risk and high reward. How much will this combo do? 3k or something and resets the situation? that's REALLY COOL if you ask me. it's no longer "I'm going to jD crossup you until I have enough meter to RC it into a combo or until you actually block." it's actually "hey I'm going to make a gamble that could make your life really terrible."

again, speculation based on a game I've never touched.
pls don't nerf bullet mori-tan ty

[SoWL]

ok i guess it's time for me to write down my thoughts because i'm bored to fuck.

things we know:

- 5D/jD now causes a bounce on hit and can be canceled into "throws": snaphance fist/snap hands fist(to be called "snap" from now on out), miquelet capture(to be called "capture"), and cutting sheer(to be called "sheer"). These moves will combo from the drive.

- 5D/jD on block without red lock now causes a bounceback which is VERY BAD.

- capture engage now wallslams, drive engage now wallbounces?(this is my understanding, I'm not sure. Does level 1 drive engage also wallbounce or only level 2?)

- you can cancel a whiffed capture if you want to

- bullet gets 6k meterless combos in the corner(From what starting heat? I'll assume H2. This is up from the 4.5k or so from previous combos.)

There's also charged Flint Shooter that goes forward now. Might make our life easier against zoners?

[Layer]

Wow, some really drastic changes going on. Mind can't comprehend.

 

Being able to follow up after D sounds amazing. Everything else I'm not too sure yet. Need more videos.

[WintySoSolo]

charged flint moving actually seems to be a better change to okizeme more than zoning.

adding that to the list for completeness.

[Lunais]

"- 5D/jD on block without red lock now causes a bounceback which is VERY BAD."

 I'm not bothered about this one since normally vs good opponents you get punished anyways if its not Red Lock.

 I would like to know however if its 100% bad? Normally on a punished D it will come from a jab. Bouncing back however, will it be punished differently? Will some jabs not reach? 

[Assassinine]

I'm not bothered about this one since normally vs good opponents you get punished anyways if its not Red Lock.

 

How exactly are people punishing drives on block?

 

At H1 its +4. Even with instant block you are still at advantage and you have a 6 frame 2A

[WintySoSolo]

it now bounces back and put bullet in the air and she can't do anything till she hits the ground.

unless the frames are really different, this ends your pressure. It may not be punishable at higher levels, but I doubt she can just get a bunch of plus frames to do whatever with by having a drive blocked.

that is my understanding of the change, at least.

[Assassinine]

You misunderstand, hes saying hes not bothered by the change to blocked drives because hes already getting punished for blocked drives, which makes absolutely no sense to me.

[TheBossGiga]

Bullet got some pretty huge buffs in 2.0 if those experimental ones stay.

[Mikros]

For those who haven't seen the video yet. So far it seems to be the same as the loc test. She gains the special cancel after her drive, can cancel Miquelet Capture early and the charged fireball moves forward in level 1 and 2.

[Digital Masta]

So what I'm thinking about now is if Bullet now has her drive blocked by a standing opponent can she cancel into Miquelet Capture and perhaps throw them if they aren't paying attention and don't counter or crouch? I'll be around the arcade for a little bit tomorrow. Not sure if I'll have time to play but I at least expect there to be people.

[SoWL]

Thank God we don't bounce off them on block and can even cancel Drive into Flint for more safe pressure. The future's looking even more bright now.

[RurouniLoneWolf]

Charged flint shooter oki during heat up looks promising but need to see how plus on block it will be and how well it holds up against various defensive options.
I'm very pleased with how early you can brake Capture and the brake itself doesn't seem to be too long. It looks to be very viable for resetting pressure if you're good at varying your pressure. I hope JP Bullets will experiment with this a bit.

 

I feel like Bullet's ability to vary her pressure in the latter half of her blockstrings has become really good with these last 2 updates . Between 5C vs 5[C], 5D vs 5D Red Lock and blocked 5D > Flint Shooter vs  blocked 5D > Charged Flint Shooter, there's a lot of things the opponent needs to be on the lookout for now.

[WintySoSolo]

if blocked drive is special cancelable into anything there's multiple...oh wait we don't really have any special moves. I guess you could drive -> capture -> break or something if they are just blocking everything? Drive to charged flint seems like it would be alright for more +Frames. How + is blocked drive now anyway?

 

seems that bullet DOES MORE when she gets a hit and has even more varied options in her combos to leave the opponent wherever the player thinks would be the best place for them.

[RurouniLoneWolf]

if blocked drive is special cancelable into anything there's multiple...oh wait we don't really have any special moves. I guess you could drive -> capture -> break or something if they are just blocking everything? Drive to charged flint seems like it would be alright for more +Frames. How + is blocked drive now anyway?

 

seems that bullet DOES MORE when she gets a hit and has even more varied options in her combos to leave the opponent wherever the player thinks would be the best place for them.

 

I don't think we've heard anything about how + blocked drives are now since the first loctest reports and the reports from that lo test only said it was less advantageous. Nothing too specific. We'll have to wait to hear more reports. Not that it matters. If we don't special cancel a blocked drive, we'll get bounced back, which puts us in a poor position to continue pressure. Seems like it's red lock or nothing if we absolutely want to reset pressure with a D move now.

 

Yeah, you're right. It definitely feels like Bullet's getting more damage overall and has more control over where to put the opponent. It also feels like her ability to convert off pretty much anything has gone up now that drives are special cancellable. I'm looking forward to seeing what JP Bullet players can do once they start optimizing combos.

[SoWL]

If we don't special cancel a blocked drive, we'll get the bounced backt, which puts us in a poor position to continue pressure. Seems like it's red lock or nothing if we absolutely want to reset pressure with a D move now.

Are you sure that is still in? I haven't watched any footage other than what's in the Famitsu notes, you see. 

 

But you know what, with the option to cancel a Drive into Flint, having another option of bouncing back might not be that bad. If there is a gap between the Drive and the Flint, people would want to DP in it, and bouncing back might dodge quite a few of those. That is, if our recovery is better than theirs.

[RurouniLoneWolf]

Are you sure that is still in? I haven't watched any footage other than what's in the Famitsu notes, you see. 

 

But you know what, with the option to cancel a Drive into Flint, having another option of bouncing back might not be that bad. If there is a gap between the Drive and the Flint, people would want to DP in it, and bouncing back might dodge quite a few of those. That is, if our recovery is better than theirs.

 

No confirmation in the final release. I doubt they've reverted this change though since it seems to be a part of their overall effort to weaken gapless prolonged block strings but let us wait for the confirmation.

 

As for bouncing back to intentionally to bait DPs, this could indeed work. We should still be + on block from H1 and H2 blocked drives so recovering in time to block a DP is not an issue. That said, I'm also not sure if there's a gap between blocked drive and non-charged flint shooter. It looked gapless in the Famitsu video but guess we'll have to wait and see.

[haitian_sensei]

Where can I go and see all of these videos with the changes? I really like what they are doing to Bullet, by what you guys are posting. I see way more options and maybe some mix ups with the drive being special cancellable.

[RurouniLoneWolf]

Here's a link for the demonstration of Bullet's changes. You should be able to find all the videos and translations of the changes in the BBCP2 news thread and Shoryuken news articles

[Shin Oni]

my guess is she'd get legit frame traps with drive>flint in H1 or possibly H2 (of course adding in red lock.)

 

I like what's been shown of the vids. The problem is where she got nerfed because the vid only showed buffs and didn't go over nerfs outside visual cues in other character demo vids.

[Sadeyo]

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm24662676

 

A little taste of some Bullet vs Hakumen 2.0 matches. Her combinations are vastly different but I won't take back the fact that it all looks fun. Bullet 2.0 video thread needed or are we keeping it with the old archives? Plus, pay attention to 7:50 in the video as I think we got a buff with 5D/jD bounce off effect on guard to make it safe. If I watched the video correctly we can get miquelet capture off of heat 1, I'm going to watch this video again until more videos show up. 

Special thanks to Lazy Alchemist for browsing nico all day.

[SoWL]

We do need a whole lot of new 2.0 threads, including the video one, but I'd like to close the lid on the 1.1 video archive first, even if no one might need it anymore. The problem is, I got about 2 months worth of footage to go through because I'm a lazy POS, but I hope I can get done with that over this weekend. After that, we either wait for Prototype to make the new threads and move the old ones to the archive, or we just do that by ourselves with his permission.

[WintySoSolo]

guy in video drops a gamewinning combo by doing some strange stuff.

makes me wonder, if we can cancel drive into specials, can we cancel drive into super? I mean we probably can but will it actually combo

[Lunais]

I do not recall but does 2.0 Bullet only bounce off with D on block in heat 0-1? At 3:15min in http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm24662676 she does not bounce. While at 7:50min she does.

[MechaMacGyver]

She does bounce at 3:15. The animation is really short, but it's there.