[CP1.1] Makoto Nanaya's Gameplay Discussion - When's 2.0?

[Teutonicknight]

Yupp, I'm not worried about it. Back on topic everyone... I think it is pretty safe to say the game is broke for good. :P

I want someone to answer this for me- say I am fighting Hakumen and I go into OD. Can my OD attacks be delayed so I can trick him out of his zanshin?

[Bibiquadium]

Think of it this way. All your drives comes out instantly at G level. Can't hold it.

[Yazumatto]

I was under the impression that it was similar to the Abyss mode variant where you could hold it but why would you?

Does it say somewhere that you can't hold it? Besides, they should be dead when you crack the X-Factor.

[Bibiquadium]

You could hold the Abyss drives? Never noticed it or even tried. I just remember that it made many combos possible since little to no frames were sacrificed for the charge.

[HiagoX]

You can hold some Level G moves such as Cosmic Ray and Lightning Arrow, actually.

[MoneyD90]

I know makoto is not the best but saying she is that bad feels like Dora is just trolling Goro and everyone who plays her. Especially when you factor in OD, orb Oki, our new mid screen combo, and the fact that a lot of the cast can't jump cancel anymore but we can still mix it up with astral vision. Hell, the full potential of our OD has not even really been tested much.

[Teutonicknight]

Yeah, he is just trolling. Makoto requires work, but she is definitely not defenseless or weak for that matter. She might be the bottom of the list, but that changes as soon as she closes in and starts applying pressure. Dora just wants easy victories it seems after dropping Bang and Makoto and flocking to S tier fighters.

But in capable hands, Makoto is indeed dangerous, and she is still one of the scarier characters near a corner, especially now that she has some insane corner carry and damage in OD.

You can hold some Level G moves such as Cosmic Ray and Lightning Arrow, actually.

YES. Also nice to know that Lightning Arrow works the way it should in OD, this makes me happy.

[Yazumatto]

Even if he's not trolling, I can see where people would have trouble with the question, "who is worse than Makoto?" Yeah, she's significantly better than her EX counterpart but when you get right down to it, she's still booty-butt checks compared to everyone else. At least Izayoi looks like she has some considerable options and Amane has those drills.

In any case, I'm glad that she's still considered the worst character in the game for the second version in a row while gaining a considerable amount of options from the previous version. I guarantee you, someone's going to bitch about this character and then you can say:

"She's the worst character in the game though. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)"

[Teutonicknight]

I like her being the worst because;

1. People can't bitch when you beat their brains out

2. Major style points if you win a tourney with her

3. Good challenge without the use of any real shenanigans (her drive is just another attack button)

[Crosell]

just because shes the worst doesn't mean disrespect. People can be good with the worst characters, and goro has shown that. The fact is, people have better tools, people get a lot gimmicks. Makotos play style is super straight forward as it is essentially just a neutral game, that well quite frankly other characters have just as strong neutral game with other tools.

I dont feel like she is bad bad, she low tier but very competitive. My biggest complaint of her has always been mobility option, with 3c getting nerfed and astreriod vision path getting changed every game. I feel like she hasn't really found that nitch to get in, to give her a little some special, that and lack of viable cross up but thats just personal preference i suppose, not something she really needs. In extend she feels like sakura in sfiv, minus the crazy damage. lol. Makoto is still a fun character and perfectly viable, so dont stress too much about tier lists or what other top players think unless you're ultra competitive. I feel you'll learn more by staying loyal than going to the top, but thats just me.

[Teutonicknight]

Makoto is one of those bottoms that are actually quite dangerous, lol

So, is Cosmic Ray that move where she slams the ground? And if it is, what is the hit level?

[Wild Candy]

I think Cosmic Ray is Makoto's version of Hell's Fang durring an Astroid Vission follow up.

[Chaoschao222]

Slams the ground... are you perhaps... referring to her Crush Trigger? Cosmic Ray is where Makoto lunges forward after Asteroid Vision, sorta like super Duck Straight.

Cosmic Ray [OD]

Crush Trigger

[Yazumatto]

The closest thing she has to a "slamming the ground" animation is her Crush Trigger and she doesn't touch the ground at all. She does the cartoon windup motion with her arm before dropping a wicked overhead elbow on the opponent (not an overhead btw).

The "Squirrel's Elbow" if you will.

Can you smell what Makoto's cooking?

Probably Pecan Pie.

[Teutonicknight]

Yupp, it was the crush trigger. It looked like a special move to me. I did not know that was a Crush Trigger, lol...

So, is it a good crush trigger, a bad one, or somewhere in between?

Can you smell what Makoto's cooking?

Probably Pecan Pie.

Chestnut Parfait, it's her favorite.

[Wild Candy]

Makoto just likes nuts (That's what she said!)

Doesn't Makoto also have a new special called Lander Blow?

[Crosell]

I believe that is the other asteriod vision follow up, that is angled upward, dont believe its safe though, have seen minimal match usage out of it other than gimmicks.

cosmic ray is +2 or something along that lines good pressure tool.

[Chaoschao222]

I believe that is the other asteriod vision follow up, that is angled upward, dont believe its safe though, have seen minimal match usage out of it other than gimmicks.

cosmic ray is +2 or something along that lines good pressure tool.

Lander Blow is safe more often than not as far as frame advantage is concerned.

LV 1: ±0

LV 2: -3

LV 3: +5

LV G: +9

[Lucalibur]

Lander Blow is safe more often than not as far as frame advantage is concerned.

LV 1: ±0

LV 2: -3

LV 3: +5

LV G: +9

I don't play Makoto so forgive me for just breaking inside the Makoto forums just like this, but...why is the level 2 version less safe than level 1 if both level 3 and G are positive as hell?

Is this a thing with Makoto's drive or is this a specific case?

[Chaoschao222]

LV 2 has the greatest recovery (but the shortest startup tied with G). LV 3 and G have shorter recoveries and greater blockstun.

e; this is specifically in respect to Lander Blow, not all Drive LV's in general.

Edited May 5, 2013 by Chaoschao222

[Crosell]

I stand corrected. good to know for sure that's a lot of positive

[Chaoschao222]

Makoto's frame data is missing from the wiki still... I'll prolly put that up now, since 'actual' Makoto users can do more with it than I can.

She's got a lot to put up though due to LVs and wiki work is tedious, so it may be a while ;;

[Crosell]

Well I certainly appreciate the effort. ^^b thank you muchly

[Chaoschao222]

No problem, I'm scared of the specials, though, 50 entries ;w;

I'll repost this when I actually finish the data, but just a reminder

Disclaimers to keep in mind, the mook is missing some data, and worse yet, there are known instances of the mook being outright false.

I've watched lots of BBCP Makoto matches, but haven't been paying enough attention to them to catch any possible errors the mook may have for her.

[Teutonicknight]

Lander Blow is safe more often than not as far as frame advantage is concerned.

LV 1: ±0

LV 2: -3

LV 3: +5

LV G: +9

Wow, Lander Blow is actually sounding quite useful. I saw the level 2 recovery coming though, level 2 D's of any sort are pretty unsafe. But the Level 1 surprised me.

I decided to watch that whole combo video, and WHOA, Comet Cannon can actually be used from far away during an overdrive combo. That is beyond awesome!