[CP1.1] Makoto Nanaya's Gameplay Discussion - When's 2.0?

[Chaoschao222]

Quick update, at Asteroid Vision (63/108 entries for Makoto's data), but it's been 4 hours now, so I'mma take a break. If my break involves sleep, I may get caught up in Toryuken's stream when I awake, meaning the frame data won't be up in full until early Monday PST.

If I don't fall asleep, I'll (hopefully) be done around 1-2pm PST.

[Yazumatto]

More OD combos from Kuroku

http://youtu.be/OnIINO_jbAg

Someone asked what happens with when you combine a successful Parry and OD. Well, there's your answer(s).

Parry into OD combo w/o PF = 5.2k

Parry into OD combo w/ PF = 6.3k

And if for some reason you want to use Parry in OD... well you don't need meter for an RC to combo off of it.

(max) OD Parry combo w/ 2 DDs = 8.3k

(max) OD FATAL counter (lol kuroku) Parry combo w/ 2 DDs = 8.6k

Oh and for your entertainment, Goro's win percentage against the cast since we didn't do this when the game first came out like everyone else did:

vs Ragna ：135戦112勝（83％）

vs Jin ：158戦115勝（73％）

vs Noel ：48戦45勝（94％）

vs Rachel ：51戦36勝（71％）

vs Taokaka ：61戦44勝（72％）

vs Tager ：91戦84勝（92％）

vs Litchi ：73戦64勝（88％）<- eww

vs Arakune ：53戦36勝（68％）

vs Bang ：78戦67勝（86％）

vs Carl ：25戦23勝（92％）<- double eww

vs Hakumen ：65戦41勝（63％）

vs Nu ：40戦38勝（95％) <- so the player formally known as based nu/lambchops god can't be realistically beaten by another nu

vs Tsubaki ：60戦42勝（70％）

vs Hazama ：58戦49勝（84％）

vs Mu ：53戦38勝（72％）

vs Makoto ：25戦22勝（88％) <- <not 100% <wtf goro

vs Valkenhayn ：66戦53勝（80％）

vs Platinum ：41戦38勝（93％）

vs Reluis ：31戦24勝（77％）

vs Izayoi ：8戦6勝（75％）

vs Amane ：37戦32勝（86％）

vs Bullet ：45戦36勝（80％）

vs Azrael ：47戦35勝（74％）

We can build our matchup charts from this right?

#s-tiermakoto

#inb4someonetakesmeseriously

Edited May 5, 2013 by Yazumatto

[Lucalibur]

LV 2 has the greatest recovery (but the shortest startup tied with G). LV 3 and G have shorter recoveries and greater blockstun.

e; this is specifically in respect to Lander Blow, not all Drive LV's in general.

Ah, I see. Thanks for the answer. Pretty weird for the level 2 to be like that, you would expect level 1 to have the fastest startup, but whatever works. Those + frames on level 3 and G are pretty amazing though, not gonna lie here.

[Arc Raizen]

More OD combos from Kuroku

http://youtu.be/OnIINO_jbAg

Someone asked what happens with when you combine a successful Parry and OD. Well, there's your answer(s).

Parry into OD combo w/o PF = 5.2k

Parry into OD combo w/ PF = 6.3k

And if for some reason you want to use Parry in OD... well you don't need meter for an RC to combo off of it.

(max) OD Parry combo w/ 2 DDs = 8.3k

(max) OD FATAL counter (lol kuroku) Parry combo w/ 2 DDs = 8.6k

Good stuff. For using Parry in OD, what is the potential for using the invincible startup, as we often see, then activating Parry out of it if the enemy was going for a meaty or mashing 5A? Actual possibility or just better in theory.

[Yazumatto]

You could do it. Regular OD has invincible startup according to the wiki so as long as they aren't mashing low, you could parry that shit and make them pay. Granted, if they see it coming, you'll just eat a counter-hit combo afterwards as well as lose your OD so there's a trade-off.

[Chaoschao222]

So I did end up going to sleep, but luckily Toryuken fuckin' sucks, so I finished the frame data.

In addition to my disclaimer about the mook itself, for whatever reason, the translation for Makoto's data was filled with a ton of errors (first time I've seen that); I'm pretty sure I caught all of those, though, so the only sketch things should be a result of the mook's info, not the translation errors.

http://www.dustloop.com/wiki/index.php?title=Makoto_Frame_Data_(BBCP)

Makoto's RA Table still has untranslated notes, so I didn't put that up.

[Yazumatto]

The data should mention that 5D (lv 3) fatal counters. Everything else looks good.

Thanks Chao!

[Chaoschao222]

Yeah, 5D not being Fatal in the mook looked all kinds of wrong to me, but like... I can't recall anyone getting a raw CH 5D in BBCP matches, so I couldn't safely change it...

[Teutonicknight]

Chao, thanks a ton! It means a lot to all of us, because there's not too many other people who would do Makoto's frame data for us.

[Yazumatto]

Yeah, 5D not being Fatal in the mook looked all kinds of wrong to me, but like... I can't recall anyone getting a raw CH 5D in BBCP matches, so I couldn't safely change it...

Oh it fatals. I've seen it. You can get a sandwich before following up, it's disgusting.

I explicitly remember a link to a video where an Azrael ate one of those being posted in this thread. I'm studying for an exam (and watching Toryuken: still ass) so I can't dig it up right now.

[Chaoschao222]

That's fine, I trust you and already changed it.

Chao, thanks a ton! It means a lot to all of us, because there's not too many other people who would do Makoto's frame data for us.

It's no problem, what else was I gonna do at 3am on a Sunday

[Wild Candy]

Yeah, 5D not being Fatal in the mook looked all kinds of wrong to me, but like... I can't recall anyone getting a raw CH 5D in BBCP matches, so I couldn't safely change it...

Doesn't matter, your giving your time and effort to Makoto Players, and asking for nothing in return! On the behalf of the Acorn Goddess, Makoto, I thank you!

[Primiera]

Do you guys feel she would be too good with a +1 or better 2A on block? It seems like her pressure is made for having frame advantage to get respect for her mix-ups, alas, she has to play a little more guess-y or on the other end of the spectrum, extra safe.

[BlackKaizer]

lol no, combined with her jabs initial start up+dash speed, she could probably jab&dash repeat any character without a DP for free.

[Primiera]

lol no, combined with her jabs initial start up+dash speed, she could probably jab&dash repeat any character without a DP for free.

I don't think so; her 2A is 6F, and dashing up would take at least a frame if not a few, so it's far from infinite pressure, especially with insta-blocking.

[BlackKaizer]

The start up of her 2A is 6 frames, and its -1 on block, while some characters 2As are at the fastest 7/8Fs, depending on how fast her dash is increasing her 2A to +2 on block may actually allow her to jab&dash alot of characters for free.

[Crosell]

characters like bang already have a hard enough time with her pressure. I'd take fewer gaps in block strings, than a +1 2a imo.

[Bibiquadium]

Her 2A is fine, its only major nerf was its smaller hitbox. 5A is +1 but whiffs on crouch except for Relius* Tager and Hakumen.

[Wild Candy]

The only main use of 2A is to interrupt attacks durring pressure, and to rush in.

[Airk]

Do you guys feel she would be too good with a +1 or better 2A on block? It seems like her pressure is made for having frame advantage to get respect for her mix-ups, alas, she has to play a little more guess-y or on the other end of the spectrum, extra safe.

I don't really think ANY character should have a plus jab. So **** you, Hazama, you need serious nerfing. :P Stagger jab pressure should not be any stronger than it is.

Also, what is this talk of nerfs for Makoto's 3C? I just looked at the frame data, and it looks exactly the same except the P1 is better?

[Primiera]

Was Makoto's jab game significantly better when she could gatling 5X? I've only used CSE Makoto, I've never tasted her old tools

[Bibiquadium]

Its still the same jab jab dash in jab grab etc etc, they just made de hurtbox bigger than the hitbox and shorter so its not as good as in CS1/2

[Crosell]

Its still the same jab jab dash in jab grab etc etc, they just made de hurtbox bigger than the hitbox and shorter so its not as good as in CS1/2

thats a very depressing break down of the character lol

[Yazumatto]

Forever stubby. ;-;

Also, Kaqn tried playing Makoto recently according to his twitter. He's uhh... wondering how people do it. Goro said something to him but google translate isn't letting me context clues my way into understanding. >.>

[excelence]

I don't really think ANY character should have a plus jab. So **** you, Hazama, you need serious nerfing. :P Stagger jab pressure should not be any stronger than it is.

... Agree with this. i can understand +jab on Haku, but +jab on Hazama makes me goes

And yeah agree with the majority, our Squirrel Jab is fine as it is ... +jab is plain stupid srsly. :v