[CP1.1] Makoto Nanaya's Gameplay Discussion - When's 2.0?

[Yazumatto]

Nope. I played Tsubaki in CS1 until Makoto became DLC then never turned back. I do happen to play Platinum when the alcohol level in my body is too high to play Makoto but I don't plan on doing so in BBCP.

Well yeah, 5B > 6C > Shooting Star seems hard to drop no matter how drunk you are and you'll be doing that like 90% of your matches when you've claimed corner.

What's this crazy talk about a color nerf? The black,white, with green hair makoto is badass and the new swag jacket is boss. The only thing I wish she could do was opt to keep the jacket on or off. Or use it as a long distance poke like Azrael!

All of my yes.

I'm also glad that we as a collective came together with a name for her new jacket/coat

[HiagoX]

Although I haven't seen this in match, but the changlog says that you can't combo with 2C after 3C anymore, which hurts its damage A LOT.

Anyway, the move is so bad that i never saw it getting used at least once lol

Considering that the frame data indicates that absolutely nothing has changed with 3C, and -that if you do the math:

3C downs for 40 frames on hit. Recovers for no more than 13. (10 frames 'actual' recovery, 3 unused active frames) and 2C starts up in 24 frames... 24+13=37<40=You can "link"/pick up with 2C after 3C according to the latest frame data.

"Changelogs" are basically just "**** people thought they saw while they were screwing around with the character during loktests/early release" and inevitably have tons of bad info in them.

You can't do 3C > 2C anymore and even so it's not worth it at all.

Editting here to make it clear

Well yeah, 5B > 6C > Shooting Star seems hard to drop no matter how drunk you are and you'll be doing that like 90% of your matches when you've claimed corner.

There are some situations where dropping it becomes a little easier - when you do 5B > 6C > 236D midscreen against characters such as Taokaka you need to be more on point with the Level 3 charging or you drop the combo.

Edited May 9, 2013 by HiagoX

[BlackKaizer]

Anyone else thought the producers had no idea what to do with makotos balance up till now? I think shes gone through the most dramatic changes of any character throughout all installments of BB. Shes sorta that oddball characters whos difficult to twink with, without making either totally awful, or totally broken.....

How balanced she is now, its hard to tell what buffs they could make without putting her over the edge.

[Bibiquadium]

She's balanced enough to be tournament viable when put through good hands. Its not a char that anyone can pick and hope for the best without putting much thought into it.

[Yazumatto]

So the Arc Revo cup brackets are up: http://arc-revo-cup.jp/tournament/

Goro will be fighting a Nu first round. The winner of that faces either a Ragna or a Tao.

The only thing we can do now is wish him the best of luck. Japan is really good at STSFN so I hope he has some of that because single elimination means the Nike effect is always in play.

[MoneyD90]

That's a really bad first round for any makoto player... I hope he bodies Nu since he used to play her. Plus it would be nice to have more footage on how this terrible matchup should be played, because every time I fight a Nu player I'm like...

[toanenadiz]

Doesn't Goro body Nu's though? I rarely see him lose to Nu in videos.

[Yazumatto]

That's a really bad first round for any makoto player... I hope he bodies Nu since he used to play her. Plus it would be nice to have more footage on how this terrible matchup should be played, because every time I fight a Nu player I'm like...

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?15355-CP-Makoto-Nanaya-s-General-Gameplay-Discussion-A-New-Hope!/page16&p=1494975&viewfull=1#post1494975

Out of the 40 times he's fought a Nu, he's won 38 times. It stands to reason that the former Lambchops god SHOULD beat his first round opponent but crazier things have happened.

Don't forget about the single elimination nut factor too. Anyone can get vortexed out of the game.

[Crosell]

How does he do it? Im free to lambchops :<

[Yazumatto]

Goro seems to be really good at finding the gaps in her zoning. He also played Nu for the first month of BBCP so he has some knowledge on how the new model works. That and his neutral is incredible on a good day and above-average on a bad day.

However, I've taken another look at his win percentages again. He seems to be getting bopped by Jins lately. :/

...anyway, here's the translated brackets: http://kurushii.tv/Dustloop/BBCP/Graphics/ArcRevo_BBCP_Brackets.png

So if he wins the first round, he faces either a Litchi or a Carl, not a Ragna or Tao like I first thought. An extended look at the entire bracket notes that the eastern half has Mitsurugi, Fenrichi and Tsujikawa.

IF (and that's a big if) Goro makes it to top 8 and the mentioned players do what they do best, he will face Mitsurugi or Fenrichi (brackets have them cannibalizing each other by round 2). IF he miraculously beats either or them, he has to face the former Squirrel God/current Kitty god (do I just call him a furry at this point) Tsujikawa.

In any case, single elimination, best of 1 high-stakes tournaments aren't the kindest place for a character that has limited tricks and mediocre defensive options. Still, Arc Revo is going to be fucking HYPE and anyone can win. Let's go Goro!

Edited May 12, 2013 by Yazumatto

[MoneyD90]

Not 100% sure where to post this but , does anyone have some tips on how to deal with Tao? Idc if it's based on CP Tao or not since it seems like not much has changed.however, the more CP related the better... But it seems like everything she does beats out any poke I go with and her block strings have really hard to read gap.

[HiagoX]

This is supposed to be posted in the matchup section, so I'll move both our posts there once I get home. Anyway, Tao is a very difficult matchup to deal with.

There's not much to say as far as EX goes. Try not to mash randomly and get hit by a CH drive; j.A and j.B are great and should be used to deal with her.

Remember that she has no good meterless defensive options - once you're in it becomes a rough on her too so capitalize as much as you can. Her only defensive options are her super and CA, which whiffs in a lot of situations, but be aware that it exists.

Dealing with her when she's in a advantageous position is hard so remember to use your own CA - especially when close to corner because she doesn't get much from a midscreen ground hit unless she hits you with specific starters.

[The Martian]

So...I'm brand new to Makoto and I think I wanna use her. What should I know? What's a few of her "go to" combos?

[Bibiquadium]

Go to combos are scattered here and there but here's a compilation of useful B&B http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PcSzoMb2FM and other useful things can be found within this playlist http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL9OS2G92jLKh5RbSdi1zRJFGdcwFax_23

[The Martian]

God. I train for hours upon hours and then I get bodied completely when I try to fight actual people. It's so discouraging. Feels like I'm not making any progress.

[Bibiquadium]

At a beginer level, playing Makoto (especially online) is like shooting yourself in the foot. She's more of a fundamental based character.

[The Martian]

Right now I'm trying to practice her 7th mission, even though I have no idea how to apply it in the heat of battle...lol.

Why does the bot block after I try to land the C during Asteroid Vision sometimes? Also how come he can recover before I do the 2A input?

[Yazumatto]

You mistimed the asteroid vision so hitstun wore off. It requires a little bit of timing to get down. The same is true for your 2A

[Ragnarok_F4]

Right now I'm trying to practice her 7th mission, even though I have no idea how to apply it in the heat of battle...lol.

Why does the bot block after I try to land the C during Asteroid Vision sometimes? Also how come he can recover before I do the 2A input?

First, Asteriod Vision>CCCCCCC... has a tight timing. Asteriod Vision > First C, is a link a bit weird. So I do it like this: 5B>5C>5C>214A>(a very little delay)>5C>5C.....If you fail the opponent will recover and block, and then comes the punishment.

The second question, I assume your trying to do 214A>5C>5B>2A. First the opponent has to be crouched if you want to connect 5B after 5C. Second, landing the 2A is another link so you have to practice that a bit too.

I usually train like this:

1) Go to the lab. Practice some combos. Once you have the combos you like, practice them until you can pull them out easily.

2) Go to versus (vs CPU). Try to land the combos you practiced before against the AI. This is very important, because you will learn how to land your combos with the so few opportunities you have in a match (especially with Makoto). Try adjusting the AI level until you can defend well-attack well-try some pressure-and confirm your hits into combos.

3) Then if you can play with someone offline, do it. You will learn how people thinks/reacts to your tactics. This is where you will know if the tactis/combos/resets you practiced in the first step are going to work. Also I prefer this over online matches first, because lag with Makoto is a seriuos pain in the ass. Lag is different every match online, so you have to adjust the Impact timing every match, and that's just not easy at the beggining. If you can't go offline then go to 4)

4) Try some online matches, have fun and patience and results will come. It's just a matter of not giving up. Remember that BB has a big dedicated community that plays since BBCT, so they have a lot more experience. You will catch up, you just need to keep at it, enjoy the game and enjoy playing with Makoto. That's the key to find motivation to keep practicing. If you want to try something new, I usually do this steps again.

[Yazumatto]

So I heard from a particular person's twitter that Souji and Goro had an exhibition match at ArcRevo. Questions:

1) who got bopped?

2) was it close or was someone getting railed on for most of the matches?

3) when do I tune in to see goro get bopped by a top-tier character?

[Kurushii]

ArcRevo hasn't happen yet so "had" isn't possible. They both are playing at ArcRevo but they are in opposite sides of the brackets. Not in the same block.

[Yazumatto]

...Exhibition match? At least, that what Hiago said on twitter. I might be reading into this wrong though.

Edited May 17, 2013 by Yazumatto

[Kurushii]

I don't know of any exhibition match to take place at ArcRevo. It's not on the schedule. If this was something prior to the event I haven't seen it. The most recent event that had a lot of gods was the 2on2 a-cho stream from the other day. I can't remember if they squared off on it.

[HiagoX]

I don't know of any exhibition match to take place at ArcRevo. It's not on the schedule. If this was something prior to the event I haven't seen it. The most recent event that had a lot of gods was the 2on2 a-cho stream from the other day. I can't remember if they squared off on it.

He's referring to this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=hztTet_MEMs#t=0s

[Yazumatto]

Those matches were godlike. Thanks Hiago.

Not sure if Goro owns Souji's soul now since Arakune is nerfed quite a bit but at least most of them were close matches.