[CP1.1] Makoto Nanaya's Gameplay Discussion - When's 2.0?

[Keech]

BBCP Makoto http://dagobah.net/flash/I_see_no_hope.swf

[Yazumatto]

BBCP 1.1 patch comes out tomorrow.

I'll see everyone when they announce BBCP2.

/thread

[swordsman09]

Well...this is it.

 

Nice avy btw Yazu.

[Dark Ranger88]

REALLY nice avatar!

[Teutonicknight]

Makumi!

[LeDom]

Thanks for tips guys, no luck yet, still feels plain awkward. In one of the earlier challenges I was able to cheat with doing j.C > Corona instead of tiger kneeing it but with this one you just have to be a man and just do it.

 

For the TK DP, the solution really is to just practice it until you can do it on reaction. Just do it on its own a few times and then try it mid-combo. I had trouble doing it at first too but now it feels smooth and natural. 

Also: Yazumatto: I agree with everyone else; this IS a pretty damn sweet avatar!

[StarGazer]

Wither it was a clevage or underboob, Makoto is best.

[Ried]

So, umm...this patch.

Am I wrong in thinking this is worse than what the patch notes suggested. Cause I really want to be wrong.

So many things don't work anymore, and not just the stuff I was expecting not to work. I can't figure out how/if there's any way to make up for it either.

I know it's super early and all, but the more I'm playing around with this, the less hope I have, lol.

Anyone with a brighter outlook on things atm? Were there any stealth buffs or anything remotely positive? Because I really don't know.

It's like, she had so very little, and they took it all away.

 

[Dark Ranger88]

Well I don't know if we have a 1.1 combo thread or anything yet, but I came up with a way to still do orb oki in the corner.

 

5B > 6C > 214A~C > 236D lvl 3 > 6A* > 2D lvl3 > 6BC > JC > j.B > j.D lvl3 > 66 > 5D lvl 3 > Orb oki, DMG: 3570

 

*Tck* Nevermind...It whiffs on midgets....

 

Note*: You can substitute the 6A with 2C and the combo will do 3728 damage instead. It's just more difficult to execute and might not work against everyone.

 

---------------------------------------

 

Other things I've noticed so far...

 

The last hit of astral does 4000 damage instead of 1 lol.

 

The 2nd hit of Particle Flare seems to shoot the opponent up REALLY fast now. They fly to the top of the screen at Houtenjin speed now.

 

I don't know for sure...but it seems that 5CC has more untechable time at the end of combos now. I used to not be able to do *full combo* > 5D > 66 > 5CC > Particle Flare at all, but now it's easy. They always used to tech out before the first hit of Particle Flare. Although I might just be doing it differently now...

[swordsman09]

Well at least j.B>j.D still works somewhat. Just harder to execute so it may not be very useful online.

 

We really need to find a better use of 6B>C now though. They put it in so we might as well make use of it. I feel that this patch has potential. I was so disappointed when I saw that it couldn't combo into Comet Cannon though.

[Reisi]

Now that the patch hit, I mashed a little bit around in training mode. Decided I might as well post the tiny findings before returning to lurking 24/7.

I can't get 2A > 5B > 6C > 214A~C~236D > 6A > j.B > j.D to connect anymore. Might just be me, since you have less time after j.B now, but I think it doesn't work anymore. :/

Slight improvement on the 5B starter midscreen (unless this is already outdated, then I apologize):
Old: 5B > 5CC > 2D(2) > 5B > 6A > 2D(3) > 2C > 214A~A > 5CC > j.C > j.B > j.CC > j.623C~D (3460/24)

5B > 5CC > 2D(2) > 5B > 6A > 2D(3) > 2C > 214A~A > 6A > 6BC > j.C > j.B > j.CC > j.623C~D (3554/25)

The 2nd hit of Particle Flare seems to shoot the opponent up REALLY fast now. They fly to the top of the screen at Houtenjin speed now.

I'm having a rather easy time comboing after PF now, this might be why? Could also be my imagination.

 

I really hope some better combo paths will open up somewhat soon though, Makoto needs it.

[ざわ…ざわ]

Unfortunately the 6BC ground bounce change is a bit restricted due to its gatlings and slow startup. Of what I've been messing around with so far;

 

2D - Given this is likely the move that is going to allow you to use 6B's ground bounce property, it's kinda hard to find a good use for this one. 2D(1) and 2D(3) share SMP, and while 2D(2) doesn't, usually if you do it twice they're too high up to follow up anyway. However, it does seem to have some potential in the corner thanks to 5D(3), which 6B will bounce during the slide. You can do the following with this, not sure how useful it will be, but maybe it'll give someone else some ideas;

 

Corner - 5B > 5CC > 5D(3) > 66 6BC > 2D(3) > ...

 

5D - Still a bit hard to utilize but any 6B ground bounce can translate into a 5D(3), like this;

 

5B > 5CC > 2D(2) > 5B > 6A > 2D(3) > 6BC > 5D(3) > ...

 

In the corner you can follow up with 214A~C~236D(3), into 5B > 6A > jc.C > jc.B > j.623C~D(3). I haven't tried j.B > j.D(3) because I'm really having trouble getting that to work anymore.

 

214A~C - Probably where a lot of the potential is, if there's any to be had. 6B > 214A~C can go into 236D(3). 6BC has a harder time because they float higher. If you can get the opponent to stay on one side of Makoto, you can do;

 

5B > 5CC > 2D(2) > 5B > 6A > 2D(3) > 6B > 214A~C~236D(3) > ...

 

and potentially get some wall stick. Requires you to be a little far from your opponent and kind of stagger slightly the 5B/6A/2D(3) after the 2D(2); didn't have much luck replicating, but I'm bad. Maybe you can slip it into the basic version of this combo with 2C > 214A~A > 6A and see if it works; I haven't tried.

 

----

 

Mostly obvious stuff after you've messed around with 6B for a bit but hopefully someone finds it useful.

[Dark Ranger88]

Well I don't know if we have a 1.1 combo thread or anything yet, but I came up with a way to still do orb oki in the corner.

 

5B > 6C > 214A~C > 236D lvl 3 > 6A* > 2D lvl3 > > 6B > 6BC > JC > j.B > j.D lvl3 > 66 > 5D lvl 3 > Orb oki, DMG: 3570

 

*Tck* Nevermind...It whiffs on midgets....

 

 

Well I messed around with this some more and you can get it to work on people with narrow aerial hurtboxes (Hazama, Plat, Carl, Kokonoe etc) by delaying either the 6BC (the followup) or the jump cancel. It's just INCREDIBLY inconsistent on Kokonoe.

[Arc Raizen]

Aside from most combos with j.B > j.D late in the combo (like my main non-oki corner combo and the strongest corner oki combo), we also lost the 2C > CT > 214A~C pick-up. CT seems completely useless in combos now since you have to use 2B for the pickup.

 

Also, is it just me or does everything feel much faster?

[Wild Candy]

For anyone looking for optimal combos in 1.1, here's a decent video for them. 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxmSGbp2btE

[Fujiwara]

Was this always possible? http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm23553742

[Teutonicknight]

With all due respect Arcsys- f**k you.

But seriously, I tried Makoto after the patch, and holy crap. She makes Roll look like an effective character. If only she got the same treatment as the people who were just as weak as her.

[wauhti]

Some taunt combos https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U95qj2QHMzE

[Teutonicknight]

First taunt combo was awesome, and then Acorn Oki? That seems sorta funny, but cool. Now I really wish there was a way to make the acorn come out at will instead of a 10% chance.

[Kcin]

Played around with 1.1 and i'm going to need to adjust my timing cause i feel like i have to play makoto faster now.

I mainly only tested 2 things of importance to me other than seeing how many routes i use still work.

1st is the space counter > RC > OD30% > CT > 2C etc... into 8.1k still works, but the reduced CT time means if you want to sideswap you'll have to hit 2D early to fling them over you.

2nd is was a random idea i wanted to test with FCs which do work in the corner.

2C FC > 214A~A > 6A > 6B~C >2D(lv2) > 6A > 6B~C >2D(lv2) 6A > 6B > PF(4.3k I think?)

On any lv3 FCs i can only loop 6A > 6B~C >2D(lv2) twice before they tech out of the 3rd 6A.

I'm really disliking how bad things are now; Timing is now tighter than ever, I have yet to figure out how to break 4.5k damage without OD, and I have only gotten 1 CT combo to red beat so far.

I also am partially disgusted at that near 7k FC bullet combo for 75% meter at just about center screen.

[Kev-Ab]

I touched a little the OD and I don't see it's really changed (this Is what I feared the most), only change I have tried is that confirming  (airborne enemy) 6A > JC > j5B/OD is tighter (I think it's fair because it deals more than 6500 of damage).
But for oki combo I discovered this:
5B > 6C > 214A~C > 236D > 66 > 6A > 2D > 2C > 214A~A > 6A > HJC > j5B > j5D= 36XX (it's near 3700)
The last part is really tight, I hate this patch, I mean, Makoto has enough problems to outplay a lot of characters at neutral and now her combos gets more difficult (and he loses some good ones),
It's not a coincidence some japanese players dropped her, they are sick of this shit. I think she isn't bad but the problem is that characters like CARL, VALKEN have gotten buffs, and other characters that were at Makoto level got buffs, but she only got a slap in the face and fake candys (j5B > j5D doesn't compensate a shit, but I'm glad we have this if not that would have been true despair even for me).
I would send a letter/e-mail/telegram/smokesignals to ArcSys to stop nerfing her, but I'm afraid that they might nerf her even more because of that... even while being respectful in the message.
I still have to experiment a lot.
Also going for maximum damage doesn't look really bad from what I tried, but the oki combo damage seems fucked to me, but gladly it's still possible going for it.

[Yazumatto]

Everything does feel faster. It's that or everything got tighter or both. As a whole, that j.b > j.D gatling is just annoying and I'm finding it difficult to do correctly if the combo is even slightly long. The lack of damage from almost every starter is just depressing. The 6B ground bounce is cool but that doesn't make up for the loss of damage on everything.

But hey, at least we got acorns?

[Kev-Ab]

I'm just thinking of doing 6B at the end of a combo for pressure, Because normally it's expected that most people tech in the first moment they can, and that leaves them in the air ready to get a delayed 5C or maybe a 6A, and if they don't tech, theorically, it's possible to extend the combo a little, but since it's so fucking difficult to land j5D on a decent combo It's probably better stick to Orb oki.

[MoneyD90]

Are combos BBCSEX tight? If so I find it really odd that they did that since CP combos seemed to be in a good place.

[Kev-Ab]

Anything involving j5B or j5B > j5D lvl3 is tighter or doesn't work with the usual way. the combos ending on Corona upper, usually work unless you use too much j5B at the end.
But since all the decent combos usually work with j5B near the end... everything needs to be done faster.
They have should have made j5D lvl3 faster.
But even so they should just have buffed her, like all the characters on her tier that got buffs as she stayed behind.