DC Posted December 31, 2012 Author Posted December 31, 2012 Not true, P4U's hold A to tech functionality is nice and it is in CP, but generally smarter players know what their opponents combos are and will not hold A to tech until the end of the combo to avoid getting reset. It's a gamble though because not holding A can also get you reset. All in all, I think it's just more likely he wasn't holding A to tech, realized he didn't get hit with RB follow up, teched late and got reset by 6c because he wasn't holding barrier. Who knows though.
Litherain-XIII Posted January 2, 2013 Posted January 2, 2013 Ok something caught my attention for a bit. This vid of noel doing 4D on hakumen's 5C in the corner. If i remember right, his 5C should beat 4D regardless of 4D's timing (i just checked and it beats it clean everytime so far in EX). Soooo..... 4D got better...? O_o wonder if it can beat other stuff it normally wouldnt now... http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=C28JB42i7yU#t=714s
LunaKage Posted January 2, 2013 Posted January 2, 2013 Its ground usefulness got better, due increased invuln to ground attacks, but it can no longer beat any air attacks, which is its biggest nerf. I guess you can say it ended up as an even trade.
00Bubbles00 Posted January 2, 2013 Posted January 2, 2013 Anyone see 5B>6A>5B being used at all? I remember someone mentioning this string earlier. 5B>6A>5B>hjc>jC>jD might connect better (due to range) than 5B>6A>6C>hjc>jC>jD. It could go 5B>6A>5B>2C>236C if blocked. 2B>6A>5B>hjc>jC>jD connects in EX. The extra on-ground hit after 6A does give much more time for the brain to prepare for the high jump.
Litherain-XIII Posted January 2, 2013 Posted January 2, 2013 ive seen 5B > 6A in general several times overall in spacing situations when the 5B hit but not on block.
LunaKage Posted January 8, 2013 Posted January 8, 2013 Well now we know that our meterless 5k overhead combo works on Ragna in the corner. Perhaps it eorks on everyone in the corner, but only on Jin midscreen.
LegendaryRath Posted January 8, 2013 Posted January 8, 2013 Sorry if this has been asked before, but I don't typically follow Noel much. How is Noel looking in CP so far? I remember seeing some crazy stuff early on , but I kinda stopped looking into it lately. Her damage seems to be buffed through the ceiling. Recalling some combo video I saw, she got like 5.7k meterless from a quick CH and a command grab combo. She looks like she's got some good potential and looking really solid overall. Dare I say high tier, borderline top? I just don't know enough about her to say for sure, so I wanted to hear what you guys think of her so far.
SkyKing Posted January 8, 2013 Posted January 8, 2013 Sorry if this has been asked before, but I don't typically follow Noel much. How is Noel looking in CP so far? I remember seeing some crazy stuff early on , but I kinda stopped looking into it lately. Her damage seems to be buffed through the ceiling. Recalling some combo video I saw, she got like 5.7k meterless from a quick CH and a command grab combo. She looks like she's got some good potential and looking really solid overall. Dare I say high tier, borderline top? I just don't know enough about her to say for sure, so I wanted to hear what you guys think of her so far. Last I heard, Noel was said to be low-tier, but in no way useless. She still has really nice damage, and she looks a bit more rounded out. Drive isn't as spammable (i.e. 4D's invuln change), but she still has her answers with drive. So play smart with her.
Errol Posted January 8, 2013 Posted January 8, 2013 no idea. I really haven't seen much of Noel. Isn't her pressure with normals really strong? I don't really know Noel, but the frame data looks such that I'd think she'd be pretty good even if drives as reversals were useless. Rarely see Noel players do stuff other than drive though so I don't really know. What are Noel's weaknesses, what would they be in CP?
DC Posted January 8, 2013 Author Posted January 8, 2013 She's always been super risk reward, but in this game she seems kinda average risk average reward average character.
Litherain-XIII Posted January 8, 2013 Posted January 8, 2013 (edited) Overall she seems a bit more solid than she was in the past and more stable in certain scenarios imo like midscreen and ackward hit confirms that she couldnt capitalise on as good as she can now in CP. Chamber shot really help her out in those regards. her 2D isnt as reliable as a reversal option now but does have its uses since it changed. She does seem to have some potential oki setups based on her silencers so far either by hitting them with it in the corner or whiffing it midscreen in the middle of drives (usually after d.5C). We dont know all her new gatling properties we seen a few on hit but on block is still a mystery but nontheless they do help her out in the long run. As far as crush trigger pressure or mix-ups i cant say for sure but i assume it would be pretty strong since theoretically speaking she could crush trigger guard break into 6B > 5K combo which is pretty big for a trade of 25% heat assuming the 5K meterless combo works on mostly everyone in midscreen and corner. She better but due to other characters changing as well her tier list rating did shift to B. If you wanna see the list thats up for japan in the jbb site this is what they have currently for the time being. Tier list S: Taokaka, Hazama, Hakumen, Jin, Litchi A+: Mu, Azrael, Valkenhayn, Relius A: Ragna, Carl, Arakune, Rachel, Tsubaki, Bang, Platinum, Nu B:The Others (Izayoi, Noel, Bullet, Tager, Amane) B tier list is not in a specific order i just typed for visual but everything else is just as it was posted. Edited January 8, 2013 by Litherain-XIII
00Bubbles00 Posted January 9, 2013 Posted January 9, 2013 (edited) If Noel had a good aerial overhead she would be A tier lol. I guess it seems confirmed that standalone j2C is useless since no one uses it in the arcade vids. My dream special move would be - change spring raid into Cammy Cannon Spike, usable anytime. I do see some inspiration taken here =) Edited January 9, 2013 by 00Bubbles00
Litherain-XIII Posted January 9, 2013 Posted January 9, 2013 j.2C isnt completely useless yet until we "americans" get down to business in CP. Im suprised to barely see crush trigger being used in general outside combos anyhow i wanna see what j.2C is lik with RC behind it. its gotta atleast net her close to 3k hopefully
Chaoschao222 Posted January 9, 2013 Posted January 9, 2013 ... What's with the quotes around Americans?
Ctrlaltwtf Posted January 9, 2013 Posted January 9, 2013 ... What's with the quotes around Americans? If you "knew" you'd already "know", if you know what I "mean"
HexaNoid Posted January 9, 2013 Posted January 9, 2013 I'm sure he got the point was to emphasis the word, it's just using quotation marks is a strange way of going about it. Quotation marks usually make you think the speaker is saying something sarcastically (like he's saying 'so called Americans' or something). Shoutouts to you showing the correct way to emphasise a word though.
LunaKage Posted January 9, 2013 Posted January 9, 2013 j.2C may be rarely used, but everytime I've seen someone use it, it either hit it's mark, or whiffed completely and made safe, there's no real proof that it's useless at neutral yet. As far as how Noel looks in CP, she's traded drive reliance for more solidness. Her drives didn't just get modified invuln but also nerfed reward, I haven't seen a Fatal 4D net all that much damage yet, which so far is her only Reversal drive, since it launches on hit you can't go into 214A and such, which is our big money maker in CP for damage. In CP her game seems to be much more rushdown oriented, with Chamber Shot filling the hole that was in her standing confirms since CT and j.D getting a big hitbox buff she now has confirms for every situation: Standing hit? CHAMBER SHOT! Air Hit? AIR COMBO > J.D > GROUND COMBO! Also due to her Overdrive essentially buffing her drive to the point where standing 5C > 5D will combo, it's safe to say we can easily do 5B > 5C > Overdrive > 66 > 5B > 5C > 5D > d.5C > d.6C > 214A for retarded meterless damage on a standing opponent, we don't even need a long overdrive, just enough so that 5C > 5D connects. Also in Overdrive we know that Spring Raid > Fenrir combos, which means we can probably combo into something meterless as well, we can also do Overdrive Fenrir > Another Fenrir, meaning if we have Overdrive at the end of a combo it's probably gonna be an easy way to shave off an extra 2k to end the match. Everyone already knows about her 6B's potential for damage now, along with j.4D, two moves that can be used for mixup that can go into 214A at some point to break 4-5k, it seems now Noel's biggest "Risk-Reward" is through these two moves, because if they hit you get Big Daddy Damage, but if they are blocked it basically means you get punished for free, or at least need a REALLY good exit strategy, which still wont always work, since you will be in drive state. Speaking of Drive State though, it seems like her drives were also made more for pressure/mixup than before. With her d.6D and d.6B having the same startup animation, it's almost like an invisible high/low while in drive, and has anyone seen how fast 6D is on whiff? I saw R2(I believe) use 6D(whiff) > d.5A(Whiff) > d.6D/d.6B for a wakeup in the corner, in which both 6D and d.5A whiffed while the opponent was still flashing from teching, that's stupid fast. Also Noel's pressure got a buff from system changes alone. Since hitstop was reduced, her staggers are that much faster, even to the point where 5B(Blocked) > 2B(Whiffed) > 665A/5B was an option. Also due to primers being gone and replaced with Crush Trigger, Noel no longer has to worry about her 4 primer handicap, or the fact that it was literally impossible to break any smart opponent's guard, since the only way to break primers in the past were unsafe moves(SR/3C/AT before EX) or Moves that put you in drive state, thus becoming extremely risky (j.4D/d.6C). The only time I've ever broken a guard in the past was when my opponent let me do d.6C > d.5C > d.6C on loop without punishing it. So now, Noel has the same chance to get guard broken as anyone else, and has the same potential to guard break as anyone else. Overall, I'd say Noel is gonna be really solid, she's probably gonna be hard to win with, but far from impossible, with less ways to escape pressure, but more ways to capitalize off of hers, she's gonna require a lot more thought, which is gonna make her a lot more fun.
00Bubbles00 Posted January 9, 2013 Posted January 9, 2013 I do feel that Noel has improved a lot in CP. It makes me wonder how they are making these tier lists anyways... did they use the match up table and summed up points? These are always limited to who is doing the testing. I guess we will have to see how j2C does after the console version comes out. It seems to have a weird hitbox. A possibly good combo is shown here at 1:31, Depending on how wide jD's hitbox is, might or might not be practical. Does it have to be done at absolutely the minimal distance? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kTQlYqhdVw Another thing that seems to be unknown is how crush trigger can be used to extend or increase corner combo damage. Most other characters seem to be able to use crush trigger to do this. Noel's basic corner combos shown so far seem to do about the same about of damage as her "optimized" midscreen combos.
Litherain-XIII Posted January 9, 2013 Posted January 9, 2013 I honestly dont think noel is required to do crush trigger combos when she does really decent damage anyhow. Its not necessary imo, but maybe in certain combos it might be then. Im really liking the crush trigger option for noel hers does look relatively fast perhaps faster than her standard overhead by maybe a few frames. She does look more rushdown oriented in CP than she is in EX and not as reliant on drives to get the job done. The more Mori does this for her, the more happier Ill be ^_^
00Bubbles00 Posted January 9, 2013 Posted January 9, 2013 (edited) 5B>5C>236C>RC>66>5B>5C>hjc>jC>jD..... is a combo that I want to see being used more in the vids. This can be used midscreen right? It seems equivalent to Ragna's 5B>5C>2D>RC>... which people have been doing on queue for a long time. Noel's is harder to do of course =( Edited January 9, 2013 by 00Bubbles00
LunaKage Posted January 9, 2013 Posted January 9, 2013 Noel's is harder to do of course =( This is a good thing though. Besides, if you want an easy hit confirm you can just 5B > 2C > Rapid > 66A > 5C > sj.C > j.D etc. Though that's still harder than Ragna's 2D > Rapid > 5C, they are both easy of course, but Noel doesn't have 3 years to do it.
LunaKage Posted January 12, 2013 Posted January 12, 2013 Few things: 6D beats Taos counter assault Fatal > stuff > spring raid can be followed up 4D beats Hexa Edge clean. I was wondering why some Noels used 4D on thier opponents wakeup, I guess it beats some reversal options.
Litherain-XIII Posted January 12, 2013 Posted January 12, 2013 If it can beat a dp like Inferno Divider and stuff id be jumping for joy to be able to run up 4D on someones wakeup. But that doesnt seem to far from becoming a reality. If it beats low hitting moves like hakumens 5C then theoretically it should beat dps that hit from the ground up.
Raptor Posted January 13, 2013 Posted January 13, 2013 Apparently 6D beats the almighty Inferno Divider as well. http://youtu.be/goZ2Mis57sw?t=1m6s
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