Overheat Posted December 2, 2012 Posted December 2, 2012 Supra (623C) is a new special. I think it's better (safer) to stay in Dia in neutral, and hitconfirm into Luna. Most of the Nu players that I've seen like to switch back to Dia as soon as possible, since Dia form's got a lot more zoning potential.
germanturkey Posted December 2, 2012 Posted December 2, 2012 yeah, i've seen most people play in dia (which i assume is the non halo mode?) then switch to luna to erk out the damage. what's the input to change modes?
Overheat Posted December 2, 2012 Posted December 2, 2012 22A. I suggest looking here to familiarize yourself with some general changes, as well as some general things that we know so far.
Afro-Demon Posted December 3, 2012 Posted December 3, 2012 236D is face lift cancellable right? Why hasn't anyone done Dia ...>236D>22A>236D>22A oki yet? I'd figure everyone would've started that by now if it was FL cancellable.
AchedSphinx Posted December 3, 2012 Posted December 3, 2012 (edited) Fortunately I've gotten used to the 22A mode change combos of Aigis, so this isn't much of a change up. However, I guess the difference would be the damage between Aigis and Nu, though Nu does more damage at neutral and outside her damaging mode. For me though, I feel that lets say I do one of her damaging corner combos and end it with sickle storm or something, I wonder if it would be better to stick to Luna and apply pressure or just go back to Dia and zone until I find a second opportunity. Also, I was thinking of a really flashy ender for Nu midscreen and was curious if Calamity > OD > Calamity would work. Or more precisely, 2B > 3C > FL > Calamity > OD > Calamity. Kinda silly, but it just sounds cool. Damage won't be stellar since 3C kills proration in dia mode, but it seems like something you could use if you have 100 heat and the opponent has less than 3k health. Does anyone know if 2B > 2C > 5C > 6C > 236D (Dia) work? 236D is face lift cancellable right? Why hasn't anyone done Dia ...>236D>22A>236D>22A oki yet? I'd figure everyone would've started that by now if it was FL cancellable. 236D (dia) knocks them back rather far so it won't be easy to actually do it. If they're against the corner, maybe. Also, that last 22A isn't good. Why switch out of Luna mode? That does the majority of your damage and the opponent can't do much until sickle storm ends. 3C proration in dia mode kills damage pretty bad, which is why I'm not particularly fond of it. Edited December 3, 2012 by AchedSphinx
Overheat Posted December 3, 2012 Posted December 3, 2012 (Dia) 236D doesn't cause knockdown, so they can air tech and punish 22A > (Luna) 236D, due to its long start-up. Considering that 236D causes quite a bit of blowback, it might just be better to stay in Dia and do 214D, or apply pressure to push the opponent into the corner.
HexaNoid Posted December 3, 2012 Author Posted December 3, 2012 ...So Luna form does more damage? Yes. 1.2x more damage than Dia form to be precise. And it looks like I'm going to have to update that compendium...
toanenadiz Posted December 3, 2012 Posted December 3, 2012 So I found some matches where a Nu attempts to play the neutral game with Luna Nu instead of Dia Nu. The Tsubaki match (vs Spinoza) showcases the most off. The lack of a screen filling projectile like Dia's 214D really seems to hurt Luna's neutral game. Shiro vs Mitsurugi Spinoza vs Shiro Izayoi wa yo vs Shiro
AchedSphinx Posted December 3, 2012 Posted December 3, 2012 I suppose that's evidence enough that you won't be attempting neutral game while in Luna mode.
Durkslag Posted December 3, 2012 Posted December 3, 2012 I thought everyone knew that, all the notes that someone translated in this thread pointed to nerfed zoning for Luna so that mode would only be combo filler and maybe oki with the sickle
Hellknight10 Posted December 3, 2012 Posted December 3, 2012 man I'm still going to try to learn some good neutral game with Luna-mode, I mean I'm still going to use Dia-mode mode but why the hell not c:
AchedSphinx Posted December 3, 2012 Posted December 3, 2012 Well, it's better to see the video evidence as opposed to what's on paper. You never know.
hakimiru Posted December 3, 2012 Posted December 3, 2012 (edited) Looking over my jbbs trancriptions so far, they don't seem that great in readibility, so I decided to try something different this time. A little more effort, but the new stuff summarized: - Luna 2B combos: 2B>2C>5C>Blade>FL>5DD>Sickle>FL>5DD>2DD>6C>Sickle>Cavalier>5C>2C>Supra 2B>2C>236B>FL>6A>5C>Sickle>FL>5A>6A>4B>2DD>CT>Sickle>Spike>Supra (damage just under 4k) - Dia 4B combo near corner (25% heat): 4B>2DD>CT>dash 3C>FL>6A>Crescent>6A>5C>6C>Sickle>FL>Spike>FL>Cavalier>C Gravity>6A>Supra>3C (damage ~4k) - In Dia mode midscreen, if you're too far away for 3C>FL>6A to hit you can do 6B>5C>4B>Aerial instead (doesn't seem to work on Amane) - Gameplan-wise, some people have been leaning towards trying to get a 3C hit in Dia mode, and then doing 3C>FL>3C>Sickle into Luna Sickle oki. Not sure how reliable this is yet, but seems to work on neutral and maybe back techs. - Large discussion about Luna mode Sword Summoners. They have an improved projectile level (Lv2), and now cancel out or plain pierce (cancels out opposing projectile and keeps going) several things that they couldn't before. A list of confirmed interactions are as follows: Spark - cancels out Ouroboros - pierces Phalanx Cannon - cancels out Platinum Missiles - cancels out Bang's Nails - pierces (both those thrown from specials and from umbrella super) Litchi's Staff - pierces, but staff keeps going (unless you hit her) With this projectile level change, people are speculating that playing neutral in Luna might improve certain matchups (Hazama, Bang, Rachel, mirrors, etc). As an aside, charged Spike and Spark go through each other and keep going for some reason, and did this in EX (or earlier) as well. Is that better? Edit: Self note - up to post 468 Edited December 3, 2012 by hakimiru
Overheat Posted December 3, 2012 Posted December 3, 2012 I like it. It does look easier to sort through this way. But I don't particularly mind either way. Information is still information, even if it's not formatted as well. Still, I appreciate the effort, of course.
mAc Chaos Posted December 3, 2012 Posted December 3, 2012 If it's only supposed to be used as combo filler I wonder why they didn't just cut out the middleman and just make it Nu with a damage buff all around. More boring I guess.
Durkslag Posted December 3, 2012 Posted December 3, 2012 Luna swords piercing certain projectiles sounds very interesting but not sure its worth trying because some of the projectiles Lambda has problems with are not really easy to hit and not being able to C cancel crescent in Luna doesnt sound like its worth it. Wish we had more videos, Rio looked like he had made some progress and would be awesome if Goro mained her (please!)
toanenadiz Posted December 3, 2012 Posted December 3, 2012 (edited) Whichever way is easiest for you Hakimiru. Thanks for all the effort If it's only supposed to be used as combo filler I wonder why they didn't just cut out the middleman and just make it Nu with a damage buff all around. More boring I guess. We don't know if Luna Nu is just combo filler yet. That last post Hakimiru did made it seem that Luna Nu could be useful for her better D swords. Gotta give it some time. The usefulness of her mode switching isn't as readily apparent as Valk's yet. Edit: Wish we had more videos, Rio looked like he had made some progress and would be awesome if Goro mained her (please!) According to the Makoto thread, Goro has left Makoto and is focused on Nu right now Edited December 3, 2012 by toanenadiz
ElegantShadow Posted December 3, 2012 Posted December 3, 2012 Wait, if I'm understanding this correctly we're getting stronger zoning in Dia Forma, but weaker projectiles and stronger Projectiles, but weaker zoning in Luna Forma. O_o
Legacy Edge Posted December 3, 2012 Posted December 3, 2012 According to the Makoto thread, Goro has left Makoto and is focused on Nu right now Praise the Sun!
Overheat Posted December 3, 2012 Posted December 3, 2012 It seems like Tsukasa will be working on some Throw combo's, so I hope he gets a chance to post them in the upcoming days. I've fairly certain that I've figured out her OD Drive's damage values to be (360*2) for the first D, and (270*2) for the follow-up D's, assuming proration is applied twice, as there are now two hits. This is a nerf, then... 360+(360*.7*.9*.89) = 561 (360+201.85 or 201 rounded down) + (270*.7*.9*.89^2) = 134.73, or 134 rounded down + (270*.7*.9*.89^2*.94) = 126.65, or 126 rounded down --- Which all add to be 821.Apparently proration only applies once for Drive in OD, so something like 6D would prorate at 89%, and 6(D)D would apply at 94%, despite the 4 hits total. This is a lot better than proration applying twice, of course. If proration only applies once, then the damage values of Drive in OD are (360*2) and (240*2).
AchedSphinx Posted December 4, 2012 Posted December 4, 2012 Projectiles being lv2 for Luna form sounds nice and could help for certain match ups, I think mostly of Litchi match up since it can pierces through her staff instead of clashing. It sounds promising because OD mode will also use the lv2 projectiles, Nu's OD mode can literally make it impossible for anyone to stop her during the duration. Plus, Luna mode also counters Dia mode, so mirror match ups will be very different. I've never really clashed with any of Hazama's drives, piercing through Bang's nails could be useful. Though it sucks that 214D can't go full screen in Luna mode, now I understand why. Also good news on OD proration. It just sounds better every day.
STenSatsu Posted December 4, 2012 Posted December 4, 2012 New Kohatsu has a really nice Nu that was actually using FL all over the place. Used the yellow/green palette.
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