[CP] Iron Tager Gameplay Discussion

[darkblade77]

Standing 720 is hard, standing 360 is actually really easy. What you do is this 4123698 B, You don't need a full circle, and Tager has 6 frames of jump start up, any of which can be cancelled into a special move.

Derp, I should have remembered this. Thanks for the correction.

[Manta]

Thank you for the information

Then again, Using a hitbox might make things harder, I always found spin motions difficult on a keyboard, so it might be similar here.

[Darlos9D]

Hitbox? Oh THAT thing. Yeah 720s would be kinda weird on that thing.

[A.X.I.S.]

I hope this helps you. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaZIHAmmOR0

[vOddy]

Then again, Using a hitbox might make things harder, I always found spin motions difficult on a keyboard, so it might be similar here.

I played on a keyboard for my entire life, so for me, everything is easier on it. As long as it's possible on a hitbox, it's easier for me on a hitbox. It's like people who grew up in the arcades playing on arcade sticks, and therefor having an easier time doing something like Calamity Symphony in Soul Calibur V (28284666) on a stick, rather than a pad or a hitbox, even though it would seem easier to just press it out buttons, or to use both the analog and the D-pad on a pad. It's 'cause they're used to sticks. That's the way I am with keys, because of growing up with a keyboard.

Nice hitbox video.

And GREAT avatar, Darlos.

Edited December 23, 2012 by vOddy

[WolfCrimson]

LOL at SF input system not needing cardinal directions in order for 360s

[Darlos9D]

Yeah, everything is a matter of experience, and what you're used to. I'm a pad warrior, myself. My left thumb keeps on rollin'.

Also, thanks v0ddy.

[Manta]

I hope this helps you. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaZIHAmmOR0

I'm pretty sure Blazblue actually requires the directions to be in sequence. Also pretty sure about needing the diagonals too.

[Mike Z]

You don't need diagonals in BB (and if you did need 'em then that weird kara-720 thing wouldn't work) but the directions do need to be in order. SF4's problems are all SF4's problems.

[A.X.I.S.]

I did recall Mike Z mentioning that you can do >v<^>v<^ and it will make a 720 come out but it's impossible for a human to do.

Anyway that isn't the point of the vid.

Um I was told that hitboxes hold inputs themselves.

That was at Youmacon and I am too tired to recall specifics. (not helping at all D:)

[WolfCrimson]

You don't need diagonals in BB (and if you did need 'em then that weird kara-720 thing wouldn't work) but the directions do need to be in order. SF4's problems are all SF4's problems.

In BB you don't need diagonals in inputs longer than a QCF/QCB. In other words 236/214 and 623/421 need diagonals, and HCF/HCB/360/720 doesn't need the diagonals. I think QCFx2 doesn't need diagonals as well.

[Akira-Shiro]

Big daddy T laying the pimp hand down im hoping? Thanks to the average damage nerf that was implemented on virtually every character minus like 3 means that they need to put in more work correct? So doesnt this mean that T is going to have a easier time dealing with things. Im not saying that he is godlike, but havent his match-ups gotten a tad better. He also has air 360 =3 now all we need is a air 720 lol

[Skye]

Tager got worse, yo. His damage got buffed though.

Damage via other characters is closer to CT. It's looks pretty easy to get 2.5-3k midscreen for most of the cast.

[Koopa_Klawz]

Big daddy T laying the pimp hand down im hoping? Thanks to the average damage nerf that was implemented on virtually every character minus like 3 means that they need to put in more work correct? So doesnt this mean that T is going to have a easier time dealing with things. Im not saying that he is godlike, but havent his match-ups gotten a tad better. He also has air 360 =3 now all we need is a air 720 lol

Damage isn't going to do shit for ya if you can't touch your opponents. *coughnucouch*

[Akira-Shiro]

Lol zbut tager has better hitconfirms... i remember when i would get a random jc but if it wasnt a counter hit i couldnt do anything with it and they would tech.. At least u get some form of okizeme off of random air hits now

[A.X.I.S.]

That doesn't fix his core issue which is landing a hit in the first place.

The combo damage buff makes it more rewarding for hitting people though which is good.

[Mucky]

Basically Tager's buffs help him in some matchups, but not any of the ones where he really needs help. But that's what I've come to expect as a Tager player, lol.

[Tofu Warrior]

Tager is clearly better, I don't see how anyone could argue that he's worse. Keep in mind that he's undergone drastic changes in CP, where up until now, he's remained largely the same. It's going to take some time to maximize his potential.

No one is talking about how universal changes to the guard break system help Tager in his worst match ups. We don't have to worry about getting guard broken fullscreen by Nu and Mu anymore; we can block a lot more without depleting our barrier gauge as we slowly push them to the corner. We're going to take a lot more chip damage in the process, but that's how it should be in the archetypal grappler vs. zoner match up.

[Akira-Shiro]

Tager is clearly better, I don't see how anyone could argue that he's worse. Keep in mind that he's undergone drastic changes in CP, where up until now, he's remained largely the same. It's going to take some time to maximize his potential.

No one is talking about how universal changes to the guard break system help Tager in his worst match ups. We don't have to worry about getting guard broken fullscreen by Nu and Mu anymore; we can block a lot more without depleting our barrier gauge as we slowly push them to the corner. We're going to take a lot more chip damage in the process, but that's how it should be in the archetypal grappler vs. zoner match up.

I agree with him completely,,

Lets take the V-13 MU now that V-13 needs to be in a mode to do her Act- Parser attacks which are her physical dash attacks that she uses. The low and the Heavy wall bouncing one. Now, that change in itself is what is responsible for the better end for tager. In order for her to do those teleport( Away and towards) she needs to be in her standard more. In order for her to use her dash attacks( The low and the Heavy wall bouncing one) she needs to be in Halo mode.

Due to this change it makes it harder for V-13 to pressure u at a range distance, although it is still possible the amount of damage she gets from her D's is about 1.3k iirc. You are tager u can eat 9 of those and still be just fine. If a v-13 plans to zone with projectiles it is best for her to be in standard mode. If she is fishing for CH's with her physical dashes she needs to be in her Halo mode. This makes it easier for u to change and adapt, not only that ur spark bolt is literally her worst nightmare.

As for Mu-12... she is very fraudulent. Ill admit that, lol i play the broken bitch and her dmg is seriously OP. Now that she lost majority of her dmg (She gets about 3.5k from a CH 5c in the corner.) and about the same midscreen which iirc is about 2.7k. So even with her. Tager is taking alot less dmg which as far as i see allows for more lol 'mistakes'

Ill tell u one thing,, ragnas Blood scythe gives him about half the amount of Hp his DBD gives... Im mashing blood scythe in combos. The more hp i have, the more times i get to mash inferno divider and not give a fuck

[toanenadiz]

not only that ur spark bolt is literally her worst nightmare.

If Nu is in Luna mode (the halo mode), her D moves clash with spark bolt so spark bolt isn't that annoying anymore.

[Tecta1Eastside]

I agree with him completely

As for Mu-12... she is very fraudulent. Ill admit that, lol i play the broken bitch and her dmg is seriously OP. Now that she lost majority of her dmg (She gets about 3.5k from a CH 5c in the corner.) and about the same midscreen which iirc is about 2.7k. So even with her. Tager is taking alot less dmg which as far as i see allows for more lol 'mistakes'

cp Mu-12 hits you with ch 5c or 5c crouching midscreen and breaks 3.8k with no meter. If you wanna go for oki you still get low 3k. In the corner, her damage off 5c is still over 4k with no meter but tager can IB the 2nd part of her 6b and get a free combo or grab now. They fixed her bombs aka 214d they are one hit and arent +40 frames anymore on block but its that a boo boo match-up for tager. It is better for tager than extend though. I agree on Tager being better in CP also

[Akira-Shiro]

Mu,, i have yet to see her get past 3k with oki... but at the same time she doesnt need oki on tager. So i suppose thats correct. But 4k seems a bit over the top. I would like to see this. Cause there are only 3 characters in the "5k and over club" and its not her. To my knowledge.

Edit:

Ok so i saw for myself.. That yea she gets a high 3k midscreen. And i dont doubt she gets the same in the corner.. However in the end she was one of the few who could kill whole characters with 2 ch 5c. Now she cannot... but yea the dmg nerf is still there and noticeable.

Also 5c 6c into her new move doesnt connect on all the characters do to hitbox's

Edited December 24, 2012 by Akira-Shiro

[Mucky]

No one is talking about how universal changes to the guard break system help Tager in his worst match ups. We don't have to worry about getting guard broken fullscreen by Nu and Mu anymore; we can block a lot more without depleting our barrier gauge as we slowly push them to the corner. We're going to take a lot more chip damage in the process, but that's how it should be in the archetypal grappler vs. zoner match up.

Not to say I disagree with this, but guard break wasn't really a problem to begin with. Tager has 10 primers. Even in the Lambda/Mu matchups, I've only had it happen after green bursting twice in one round and then forgetting to barrier block. In other words... extremely fraudulent play.

[Moy_X7]

> 10 guard primers

> Afraid of getting Guard Crushed

> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

If you use two Green Bursts in a row, then maybe. Under normal circumstances... lol.

[Tofu Warrior]

I think angled Spark Bolt and Air Buster will help with Taokaka and Hazama. I also feel like we're just beginning to see the potential of Grand Punish. With 50 heat, you can mix up your aerial approach and make it completely safe.

Edit: Maybe I overestimated the chances of Tager's guard getting broken lol. But the new changes do mean less barrier guarding.

Edited December 24, 2012 by Tofu Warrior