[CP] µ12: Gameplay Discussion

[Zeromus_X]

It's really only something good to do if the opponent is down to their last pixels of health, because they have to take a massive risk to approach you. Normally just going ham with steins like that isn't the best idea because they opponent can take a few hits to approach you, and catch your recovery, but not when those little stein hits can end the round. Of course, Mu's steins got buffed in CP so maybe it's a more viable strategy in general. But if this ends up happening it's usually the other player's fault for ending up with only a sliver of health remaining.

Yeah, jump barrier, then land and dashing in on the ground can be good to approach since you'll make the steins fire where you were in the air as opposed to the ground. Same thing with ground barrier, then IAD. Typically a Mu setting up the laser fortress will be combining steins with jump and airdash cancels to maximize the amount of orbs they can put out, so you can catch their recovery or at least make them block if you know how to approach them. Or use moves that can go through projectiles like Tsubaki's 214D (or her new [4]6D > 236D like they tried in the video). Once you get into Mu's space it's a lot easier to make her block or throw/airthrow her to make the lasers stop firing.

Edited August 30, 2013 by Zeromus_X

[pochp]

This is just an overview from watching videos, will get updated when bbcp arrives. Sometimes hard to tell which combos actually deal more damage since starters vary. If you guys want to contribute some others that you found feel free to share, but they should at least have a reason to justify their use as opposed to those listed. Kind of want this to be somewhat easy to understand and use as well, so if you have any feedback on the format, please share that as well. Stein placement inputs changed so I didn't want to write the wrong ones so I left most of them blank for now, notation may also be wrong as I can't test these.

Notes : Combos are listed as often as possible ending in 6c or j.2c, this allows you to pick your ender, whether it's 6c 5d SoD, 6c 5d j.2c, 6c setup, or 6c omohikane. Corner combos end in 2c when possible, allowing decent setups. SoD ender seems good for corner carry and meaty, but no setup.

2c OTG does not work on at least bang, maybe more?

2c 6c does not combo on Carl, Bang, Mu, maybe more?

midscreen, *6a 6b* route exists but doesn't seem optimal... yet?

ad : airdash

bd : backdash/air backdash

: : delay

[d] : charged

tachi : new move

omo : omohikane

Midscreen :

bad starters (5a 2a DP throw airthrow projectile) :

air hit : (5b) 2c j.2c 2b 5c 6c

standing hit : anything into 3c/SoD

crouching hit : anything into 5c 6c (optional tachi into crossup/fake)

throw/airthrow? : dash 5b 2c j.2c 2b 6a 6b 6c

50 meter : ...3c rc 2c 8jc ad j.b j.c j.2c dash 2c 6c

50 meter : ...3c rc 5c 6c tachi j.6d bdj.c j.DP

50 meter : ...3c super. damage values need to be tested, might be most efficient.

normal starters (everything else, besides counter assault and burst)

midscreen easy routes :

*tachi 3c short* : ...6c tachi j.6d bdj.c j.2c 3c j.2c (3c SoD) -when starter took over 4 normals including j.2c before 6c

*tachi 3c route* : ...6c tachi j.6d bdj.c j.2c 3c iad j.b j.c j.2c (3c SoD) -seems easiest and most stable

*tachi 2b route* : ...6c tachi j.6d bdj.c j.2c 2b >d? j.b j.c j.2c (6a SoD) -more steins, better oki

*tachi sj route* : ...6c tachi j.6d bdj.c j.2c 2b delay 2c sj.c j.b j.c j.2c (2c SoD) -more damage, better oki

*2c tachi route* : ...2c j.2c dash 2b 5c *tachi 3c short* (anti air hitconfirm)

*2c sj route* : ...otg 2b 2c sj.:c j.b j.c j.2c 2b 5c 6c

*sideswap sj route* : ...6c tachi 2b 2c sj.:c j.b j.c j.2c (gets out of corner)

midscreen hard routes :

*tachi charged route* : ...6c tachi j.2c bd delay j.c dash 5b/2b 5c 5[d] j.b j.c j.2c j5[d] ad delay j.c dash 6a 2c j.c j.2c (might require max 1 normal before 6c, to be tested)

*2c ad loop* : ...2c 8jc ad j.b j.c j.2c 2c 8jc ad j.b j.c j.2c 2b 6a 6b 6c

*6a ad loop* : ...2c 8jc ad j.b j.c j.2c 2b 6a 8jc ad j.b j.c j.2c 2b 6a 6b 6c

Most normals lead to the same combos. Air hits, either gatling into 6c and pick a tachi route, or go into 2c and take a 2c route. Crouching hits go into 6c and then a tachi route. Standing hits, need meter to go 3c RC and then either head towards a 2c route or 5c 6c for a tachi route.

Specific combos :

2c CH :

2c CH jump :ad j.c j.2c 2b 5c *tachi 3c short* (need to test with this move)

2c CH 5c *pick a tachi route* (does this work?)

6a AA :

6a 5c *pick a tachi route*

6a 2c *pick a 2c route*

6a 8jc ad j.b j.c j.2c 2c 8jc ad j.b j.c j.2c 2c 8jc ad j.b j.c j.2c 2c 6c

6a ad j.b j.c 6a 8jc ad j.b j.c 6a 8jc ad j.b j.c 6a 8jc j.b j.c j.2c 2c 6c

6c :

??? (I'd probably go 6a AA route and end with j.2c)

SoD CH:

??? (Either 5c 6c etc. or 6a 2c etc. I guess?)

Overdrive :

can replace RC for most midscreen combos as in ...3c OD *5c/2c/6a*, and then do normal combos if HP is full as it's not going to last anyways. You can also use it right before doing a super, like 6c OD omo, or 3c OD omo, or prob j.2c OD omo if you don't want to learn these.

bad prorate fullhp : ...3c RC 6a jc OD 2a 5c 6c 2d? iad j.b j.2c j.214d omo

bad prorate halfhp/lowhp : ...3c RC 6a jc OD 5a 6a 6b 6c 2d? iad j.2c j.214d omo

cancel fullhp : ...3c OD *2c route/5c 6c tachi route*

cancel halfhp : ...3c OD 2c 5c 6c >d? iad j.b j.2c j.214d omo

cancel lowhp : ...3c OD 2c 6c >d? iad j.b j.c j.2c j.214d dash >d? j.b j.2c j.214d omo

Corner :

Bad starters :

Ground hit : ...SoD 5c 6c

Air hit : ...2c sj.2c j.2d 2b 5c 2c j.c j.2c (probably? doubt it)

Throw : 6a 6b 6d SoD 6a 2c sj.2c

Throw : 6a 2c sj.2c j.2d 2b 5c 2c j.c j.2c (for characters above does't work on)

Airthrow : 6a 6b ?d SoD 2c j.2c? (if above doesn't work)

Normal starters : (damage values are approximate, and for 2b starter)

Easy routes :

*EZ Route* : ...SoD 5c 2c j.2c 2b 5c 2c sj.2c j.2d 2b 5c 2c (j.c j.2c/sj.2c?) (3.5k, most common, easiest)

*BS Route* : ...SoD 5c 2c delay j.b j.c j.2c j.2d 2b 5c 2c j.c j.2c (3.4k, lots of burst safe points until j.b)

*CT Route* : ...SoD 5c 6c CT dash 5b 2c j.2c j.2d? 2b 5c 2c j.c j.2c (4k, easy from farthest)

Hard routes :

*MaxDmg 1* : ...SoD 6a 6b 2d? j.b j.c j.2c j.d ad j.c j.2c j.214[d] j.2c (3.9k)

*MaxDmg 2* : ...SoD 6a 5c 2c sj.2c j.5d 2b 5c 2c 5[d] j.c j.2c 3c 214[d] j.2c (3.9k)

*Meaty Shot* : ...SoD 6a 6b 2d? j.b j.c j.2c j.6[d]? ad j.c j.2c (3.1k)

*Delayed Shot* : ...SoD 5b 2c sj.2c j.xd 2b 5c 6c 5d xd j.2c j.[d] ad j.2c (3.2k)

*2b 2steins #1* : ...SoD 2b 5c 2c sj.2c j.5d 2b 5c 2c 5[d] j.c j.2c 3c sj.2c (3.4k)

*2b 2steins #2* : ...SoD 2b 5c 2c sj.2c j.>d? 2b 6a delay 2c xd? j.2c 3c j.2c (3.4k)

*H.H route* : ...SoD 5c 2c j.c j.2c 2b 6a 6b 5d j.a j.b j.c dj.c j.2c (3.6k)

Overdrive :

Bad starters : tbd

fullhp? : 2b 3c SoD 2b 5c 2c sj.2c j.5d 2b 5c 2c 5[d] j.c j.2c (falling)OD 3c 214d 6c omo (5356)

fullhp : 2b 5c SoD 6a 6b ^d? j.b j.c j.2c j.5d 6a jcOD 5a 6a 214d ^d? 214d j.2c omo (5203)

halfhp : 2b 5c SoD 6a 6b ^d? DP RC OD 5c 2c 214d (^d? 214d)x3 j.2c 2c omo (6830?)

[someonewhodied]

incidentally, what does one do when mu starts doing stein spam at the end of a match like that?

You don't have any issues closing the gap when i do that in CSE =(

[mAc Chaos]

Yeah, laser fortress is pretty soul-crushing if you let yourself get into that position. You pretty much have to jump/dash barrier and have the YOLO of Jesus at that point.

Normally just going ham with steins

im dying

[bakahyl]

I have never seen anyone trying to stein cancel an Ikutachi on block, is it either because ikutachi can only cancel into steins on hit or is it because cancelling it into steins is even more unsafe than the -22 from ikutachi?

edit: ah, maybe because Ikutachi doesn't really cancel into steins but on hit it has more than enough hitstun that enables you to set a stein. I wrongly assumed that ikutachi was stein cancellable

Edited October 23, 2013 by bakahyl

[C0R]

The mook says it's only cancelable on hit. I'll test it when I get the game tonight

[Zeromus_X]

Finally finished downloading the digital version. Oh god how do I do new combos.

Ikutachi is definitely stein-cancellable on hit only. The airdash cancel backwards takes a bit of timing too - you can't just mash it.

The new stein placements definitely take some getting used to. Some important things to keep in mind is that the new 2D sets a faraway stein like the old 6D, the new 4D sets a stein above you like the old 2D, and the new 6D sets the stein much farther away than BBCS. The air stein placements are pretty much the same, except j4D sets the stein much higher in the air. It seems like they didn't want us to so easily set a midrange stein.

English Mu uses a lot of the unused voice clips from BBCS. Also Ikutachi's official English name is "Sword of Infinity".

Challenge Mode 10-30:

#10 - 5B > 5C > 3C (1.47k)

#11 - 2B > 2C > 5C > SoD (1.68k)

#12 - 2B > 5B > 3C > Omoikane (2.4k)

#13 - (crouching) 6B > 6C > Ikutachi > jD (1.75k)

#14 - jC > 2B > 5C > 3C > SoD (1.9k)

#15 - (air hit) 6A > 2C > jC > j2C (1.7k)

#16 - (air hit) 6A > 6B > 5C > 6C > SoD (2.3k)

#17 - (corner) 2B > 5B > 3C > SoD > 5C > 6C > Omoikane (3.2k)

#18 - Throw > 5C > 2C > jC > JC jC > j2C (2.8k)

#19 - Combo into Astral

#21 - (corner ) 2B > 3C > SoD > 2B > 2C > jB > jC > JC > jC > j2C (2.8k)

#22 - (midscreen) 6B > 6C > 2D > Yata no Kagami > dash 5C > 2C > jB > jC > JC jC > j2C (3k)

#23 - 2B > 3C > RC > 6A > 6B > 6C > Ikutachi > jD > (airbackdash cancel) jC > j2C (2.6k)

#24 - (air hit) 6A > 6B > (dash) 6A > 2C > jB > jC > j2C > dash 2B > 5C > 6C > Ikutachi > Omoikane (3.9k)

#25- Break guard with a Crush Trigger, then deal over 4,000 damage in a combo

#26 - (corner) 5B > 5C > 3C > SoD > dash 2C > j2C > 2C > 6C > Ikutachi > j2D > adb > jC > j2C > 3C > j2C > 3C > Omoikane (4.9k)

#27 - (midscreen, approx. 40% HP OD) 5B > 3C > ODC > 2C > 6C > 5D > 2D > j4D > j214D > OD Omoikane (5.4k)

#28 - (midscreen) 6B > 6C > Ikutachi > j6D > adb jC > land dash 5B > 5C > 5[D] > jB > jC > j2C > j[D] > 6A > 2C > jC > JC jC > j2C (3.4k)

#29 - (corner, approx. 10% HP OD) 5B > 5C > SoD > dash 5C > 6C > ODC > 6B > 4D > jB > j214D > 6D > Yata no Kagami > OD Omoikane (6.1k)

#30 - (10% HP OD) Deal over 10,000 damage in a combo

Challenge 28 is sweet (charged lasers!) but the rest aren't very practical. At least they have the basic combo parts to get started.

Edited October 24, 2013 by Zeromus_X

[Nu11]

the 28 looks pretty fun to do

but i have a stupid question sorry for this

but how is the input of Ikutachi?

[bakahyl]

63214b

And the timing for the stein cancel to combo from it on a crouching opponent takes some time to get used to.

edit

It does seem a little trickier to combo from it on an opponent who was further away when hit by 6c compared when they were closer

edit: the old habacan combo's don't work because 6c doesn't seem to knock the opponent that close to you anymore

later edit: Mu's Crush Trigger is worse than i thought. It can only combo from a CH 2c or from a 6c (which has a low p2) in the corner.

I tested it on Azreal and his phalanx absorbs it

Also Hakumen's Akumetsu counters Mu's CT

Meaning Mu's CT has both the physical and projectile properties

Edited October 24, 2013 by bakahyl

[someonewhodied]

try using steins to combo crush trigger. Cmon, as a mu player, never forget steins.

You can set up charged steins mid combo now. Think of something.

[bakahyl]

try using steins to combo crush trigger. Cmon, as a mu player, never forget steins.

You can set up charged steins mid combo now. Think of something.

The only viable option would be with charged steins or a corner setup with several steins and totsuka, because of the longer recovery and faster laser speed of Totsuka. As for charging steins mid combo, there were already combo's possible in extend on a fatal counterhit 6c

[someonewhodied]

Stein>X>3C>[Crush Trigger]>]Stein small laser hit at end of 3c hitstun>]Crush Trigger hit[

I'll come up with something that actually works instead of just theory when I actually get the game.

[pochp]

First impressions (might be wrong, played at a friend's place, barely any training mode) :

-jump changed

-normals have more pushback on hit

-Midscreen, SoD knockdown much stronger than extend, 3c knockdown not as good.

-steins are good

-RIP habaya, so much counterhit state and recovery

-OD with a lot of steins feels pretty good in pressure and on wakeup, like if your opponent is low on health and you want to lock their burst, the stein shots give you good lockdown.

won't have the game until physical copy gets delivered, so no combo notations for now, but I can say the easy routes are a bit tricky at first but overall not that hard.

[C0R]

3c tk habayaa is dead. Midscreen zoning might see more applications though, it's a tool we're going to have to relearn.

My first impressions:

J.b ch is very strong

Tighter jump and superjump arcs feel better to me personally, she can fall closer to people, empowering j.b.

Steins are the god.

Bomb is still good, just need to be on the ball to combo off it.

Uppercut is much slower but still relevant, some characters can probably os Super it.

tldr: character is still really strong, just different. They took the damage off the big stuff and put it everywhere else.

[Zeromus_X]

The increased pushback on hit for normals is really noticeable. I kept finding myself dropping a combo into 3C from a range where it would normally work in BBCS. Of course, combo'ing into SoD and then stein cancelling for quick setups just seems strictly better now anyway. Midscreen blahblah SoD > 5D > dash 2D 214D still works for the "go-to" setup but you don't get as much of an advantage off of it.

The increased recovery on Totsuka is also very apparent - get used to TK'ing it if you want to use it on the ground. Her zoning is definitely less autopilot this time around for sure.

[C0R]

Habacan still works btw, it's just dashing 2a is required.

[bakahyl]

Habacan still works btw, it's just dashing 2a is required.

Habacan doesn't seem necessary now that Mu haa ikutachi

Tried playig a few matches on netplay and Mu's steins are really good.

[someonewhodied]

The only viable option would be with charged steins or a corner setup with several steins and totsuka, because of the longer recovery and faster laser speed of Totsuka. As for charging steins mid combo, there were already combo's possible in extend on a fatal counterhit 6c

X>6C>63214B>j.6D>44j.C>j.2C>663C>[Crush trigger]>]j.d[>]Crush Trigger[

GGs.

Edited October 25, 2013 by someonewhodied

[bakahyl]

X>6C>63214B>j.6D>44j.C>j.2C>663C>[Crush trigger]>]j.d[>]Crush Trigger[

GGs.

While it does work, however using a CT that late in a combo is not worth the meter and the 2nd CT is useless because it has a strong SMP

[Spring_Raid]

After watching a good chunk of CP videos and trying her out myself, I've decided to play Mu-12 as a possible main. Love the range on her normals, gets good mid-screen damage and feels relatively safe. This will be my first time playing her.

[someonewhodied]

While it does work, however using a CT that late in a combo is not worth the meter and the 2nd CT is useless because it has a strong SMP

[Crush trigger] means inputting it. ]Crush trigger[ means it hits.

That notation is just a habit from me typing carl combos a lot.

[Nemesis]

[Crush trigger] means inputting it. ]Crush trigger[ means it hits.

That notation is just a habit from me typing carl combos a lot.

I doubt the ppl here are gonna understand/appreciate your rather unique approach to tech development swd, whenever in the seven hells fedex ships me mine we can discuss - given appropriate time I know there's value to be had.

@ spring raid - welcome then but the Mu boards have always been a bit of a ghost town. That may change though - especially if cor finished that Novel for us heh

[pochp]

Might be worth looking into, I've had a lot of success so far going from zoning with a lot of steins to a 3c stein hit j.b etc. combo, due to the changes to stein level, maybe using CT instead would be worth the meter... would have to compare it to the other hitconfirms once I get the game (tonight hopefully). On hit you get a combo, on block it's a decent mixup, seems interesting.

[someonewhodied]

6C Fatal combo shenanigans:

in corner.

6C>5D>j.OD>66A>]5D[+j.2C>662B>2C>sj.2C>j.5D>j.665C+]5D[>j.2C>3C>]j.5D[>j.2C>3C>]5D[>j.2C>3C>632146C

Not optimal in any way but it looks so damn good.

[bakahyl]

So what is the best thing that i should do after a blocked 6b? Try a stein cancel or simply do nothing and block/backdash and hope that they didn´t IB the 2nd of 6b

edit: Not sure if the wiki is correct, but I have been able to rapid cancel ikutachi on hit, while it says :"Only possible to Rapid Cancel on block. "

Edited October 26, 2013 by bakahyl