[CPEX] Relius Clover Gameplay Discussion

[Justice7541]

It's a free safe 6A that leads into big damage meterless, it's super obvious but there's gotta be some kinda tradeoff. If it was fast + safe + big damage it'd be all sorts of dumb.

[StylisH]

It's a free safe 6A that leads into big damage meterless, it's super obvious but there's gotta be some kinda tradeoff. If it was fast + safe + big damage it'd be all sorts of dumb.

 

Hakumen's entire moveset says hello

[NecroTheReaper]

Reminder its only safe with ignis (though you should really only be doing with ignis). However, unless you're killing ignis using 2D all over the place, any blockstring into 6A will have a huge gap. And its -7. And its only gatlings are into moves that are either worse on block or easily mashable. The only reason I feel like 6A works is cuz everyone knows its a really slow and obvious overhead xD. Slowest in the game I believe? (Or at least tied with Tsubaki's). Also, don't try and use Carl's 6C as argument, its got unblockable setups that arent killed by Hakumen and Jin xD. Do I think 6A -needs- a buff? Not really, we got good pressure.

[StylisH]

Reminder its only safe with ignis (though you should really only be doing with ignis). However, unless you're killing ignis using 2D all over the place, any blockstring into 6A will have a huge gap. And its -7. And its only gatlings are into moves that are either worse on block or easily mashable. The only reason I feel like 6A works is cuz everyone knows its a really slow and obvious overhead xD. Slowest in the game I believe? (Or at least tied with Tsubaki's). Also, don't try and use Carl's 6C as argument, its got unblockable setups that arent killed by Hakumen and Jin xD. Do I think 6A -needs- a buff? Not really, we got good pressure.

 

Tager 6C

[Myoro]

Last I checked -7 on block wasn't safe at all, (unless we're talking about when ignis is out, but then everything is safe and every day is Christmas.) And it only gets damage if you have Meter/Ignis/Corner.  

 

Having said that 6A is actually pretty dang great. It vacuums it gives hard knockdown for unexpected Tus pressure, even though it's super obvious, no one ever reacts to it if you use 66A after falling j.C or gatling into it after 5B/2B. When people finally do react I sometimes just 5B>delay until they stand expecting 6A>3C for big money.

 

I've never been anything but content with 6A.

 

Litchi, who has similar pressure options, has a fast/safe(can gatling)/quick/and descript overhead in 6A(e). So basically we'd just have that. I don't think  we NEED that per se, but it wouldn't be world shattering.

[NecroTheReaper]

But his overhead is 6B. Ive never seen a tager use 6C for mixup except after already using 6B.

Edit: agrees with Myoro. We don't need a 6A buff, since it gets the job done. But it wouldn't hurt to have one.

[StylisH]

Last I checked -7 on block wasn't safe at all, (unless we're talking about when ignis is out, but then everything is safe and every day is Christmas.) And it only gets damage if you have Meter/Ignis/Corner.  

 

Having said that 6A is actually pretty dang great. It vacuums it gives hard knockdown for unexpected Tus pressure, even though it's super obvious, no one ever reacts to it if you use 66A after falling j.C or gatling into it after 5B/2B. When people finally do react I sometimes just 5B>delay until they stand expecting 6A>3C for big money.

 

I've never been anything but content with 6A.

 

Litchi, who has similar pressure options, has a fast/safe(can gatling)/quick/and descript overhead in 6A(e). So basically we'd just have that. I don't think  we NEED that per se, but it wouldn't be world shattering.

 

The problem is when it gets IB'ed by someone with good reactions, it could be very bad depending on the character...

 

But his overhead is 6B. Ive never seen a tager use 6C for mixup except after already using 6B

 

I was just pointing out a slow overhead 

[NecroTheReaper]

Everyone has things that don't work on IB though, not really character specific. Like ragna's ending blockstrings with 2D until you IB 2/5C and reversal/twirl out of their blockstring. Hell, sometimes IB opens up new mixup options, like if someone IBs our IAD j.A, we can land>grab for a gree green grab. And if they IB you could do 6A>early 6D>41236B for some possible j.B fatal loops.

Do I talk like its nbd? Yeah. Do I do what I actually say? Pfffft, who do you think I am? xD

[Myoro]

The problem is when it gets IB'ed by someone with good reactions, it could be very bad depending on the character...

 

That's more a problem with not enough blockstun frames than it is a problem with start-up. One easily remedied by a good ol' 6D.

 

Really if you're throwing out 6As you're confident that:

 

1. they're not mashing (a common condition for overheads everywhere)

2. You have or will 50% gauge to Rapid or you have Ignis to help you combo or cover you.

 

or

 

3. 6A will certainly hit them because you feel it in your gut and you're maverick enough to take the risk.

 

If you meet condition 2 or 3 then there's really no point in worrying about IBs at all.

[NecroTheReaper]

You forgot about condition 4.

4) if you're RYO, you can do whatever you want and never get punished.

[Myoro]

I always thought RYO was in a constant state of condition 3, or when he didn't work that he'd turn to the player next to him and use his psychic powers on the opponent to remove their ability to punish stuff.

[NecroTheReaper]

That may be it...

Speaking of RYO, I watched a vid of him the other day, and he's back up to 18th dan. This makes me happy.

[WakeUpDP]

Created a Q&A thread to centralize the place where people ask questions and to regroup the usual questions that are asked.

 

Edit: After some work, the threads are now organized. So people can now use the newly created Q&A thread for new inquiries.

[Myoro]

So I don't suppose anyone knows of a appropriate place to post or ask for U.Relius Combos, I just beat U.Mars for the tourney tomorro...err today.

 

I've made a hilarious screen carry loop with him, god he's too much fun.

[Myoro]

So, word around town is every DD is gonna get a OD form.

 

Best case scenario: 2363214C loses all of its properties in OD, gains a hit-box, gets better P1/P2, and becomes a real man's DP.

 

Likely scenario: More gear hits that do a tiny bit more damage with slightly longer hitstun that will  be used for nothing because OD is only used to kill at this point.

 

Worst case scenario: BB Santa Claus forgets about Relius completely, or OD vinum's additional hits actually hurts its utility like Bios or somehow destroys Vinum's reset potential which was the only thing going for it.

[NecroTheReaper]

Maybe it'll get a good hitbox with a 5f startup! :D

... doubtful. But it'd be great. I know Relius is suppose to have a bad defense, but 50 heat and a burst sounds like a decent enough trade to get a reversal out

[Myoro]

Have you ever actually done 2363214C while in OD? What possible addition would make that worthwhile?

 

 

 

OOOH NECRO! What if it did what the glitch does and pulls up the gears even on block!

[NecroTheReaper]

Or what if OD vinum forced standing? Either would be amazing, cuz getting an unburstable OD setup would be awesome.

[Myoro]

Or both. Both is good.

[NecroTheReaper]

Both would definitely be worth using 50 meter plus OD. It would be rediculously advantageous on block, but thats what makes me worry xD

[Myoro]

Now before you write it off as impossible, remember that OD Black Hole exists. I'm definitely hyped for potential Relius changes.

[Shockna]

So, word around town is every DD is gonna get a OD form.

 

Best case scenario: 2363214C loses all of its properties in OD, gains a hit-box, gets better P1/P2, and becomes a real man's DP.

 

 

And maybe add the old extend input for it?

 

I may only be saying that because I suck at 2363214 inputs, and that motion seems like the worst possible input for a reversal. >_>

[NecroTheReaper]

It sucks for reversal, but I'll also admit to it being more stable when used in combos. Trying to put the whole input perfectly timed in a 5f window is rediculous when blocking, and I'd honestly prefer the old input as well. I know Myoro said he prefers the new input a while back ago.

[Myoro]

I like it 500% more than 632146C. If I choose not to reversal last second 2363214C has me blocking on wake-up, making it perfect for fighting against Haku's 6B and such.

 

Also It's had me catch a few people with 236C serendipitously when they teleport behind me. (Az, Koko)

 

And the worst possible input for a reversal is Carl or Hazama's astral. Let's count ourselves lucky.

[NecroTheReaper]

But imagine trying to IB fast moves that typically frametrap and try to punish with vinum. When you IB something and end up having a 1-2f gap, 632146 would come out waaaay faster than 23663214. I don't rely too much on wakeup vinum anymore though and instead hope to the heavens that CA will CH them out of something.