skd Posted June 14, 2013 Author Posted June 14, 2013 This makes me kinda sad. Is it just her awkward normals or is there more to it? i dont think its that, more like...it boils down to "you have to hit them more, and hitting them is more difficult"
Wonderswan Posted June 14, 2013 Posted June 14, 2013 2014 is such a painful wait. She looks so damn fun to mess with, I can't wait to get my hands on her. Jerking it to her videos just isn't doing it for me anymore. =/
Surf Posted June 15, 2013 Posted June 15, 2013 Jerking it to her videos just isn't doing it for me anymore. =/ Go read Tsubaki doujins. 2014 is way too long a wait. At minimum there will be a 3 month gap between the jp release and us release. Theres no way im waiting an extra 3 months. I do agree that she still look extremely fun. There are so many things I want to try with the character. I plan on making some tech video when the game comes here. Since jp has already made enough combo videos for her. I dunno.
RurouniLoneWolf Posted June 15, 2013 Posted June 15, 2013 2014 is way too long a wait. At minimum there will be a 3 month gap between the jp release and us release. Theres no way im waiting an extra 3 months. I do agree that she still look extremely fun. There are so many things I want to try with the character. I plan on making some tech video when the game comes here. Since jp has already made enough combo videos for her. I dunno. Tech videos sound like a pretty good idea since a lot of people are scratching their heads trying to figure out how to open people up with her.
Surf Posted June 15, 2013 Posted June 15, 2013 Over the months I've compiled about 7-8 pages of info in a word document regarding her. Mostly things that I've seen and things that I want to try out. Also some matchup specific tactics that I've taken note of. TD mentioned the only real option she has after 236D is to hover in and continue pressure. But she can do so much more than that. Just by observing and watching, her pressure isn't bad. Its just.... I still cant find the words for it. But a friend of mine worded it pretty well. Shes a Marvel character. Meaning, the way she functions doesn't really transition into BB too well. Which I agree with. After awhile I started to see both Normal mode and Gain Art mode as two different characters. So much that I made two sections for the mode in said word document. Before she came out, she seemed really broken on paper to alot of people. But as I mentioned before I guess in the end it didn't transition too well in the game. So I just pondered why is that. I went looking for another character like her in similar games. In her normal and gain art mode I found that both Johnny (very similar normals, stance cancels, overall awkwardness) and I-no (gain art dash, 236D utility similar to I-No 214P) respectively were similar to her. Not EXACTLY the same. But similar. I've been watching these two characters a lot to try take notes on things I can incorporate into Izayoi someway once we have the game.Then I thought what was different in GG that's in BB that's giving her such a hard time. And the two main things I saw that were different were the retarded amount of ways to ground tech in BB (late/no tech, quickrise, forward roll, back roll) and the ease of escaping pressure compared to GG (IBing and Barrier Block much stronger in BB). Well, and of course completely different characters and matchups. But even then, watching it seems like she doesn't have matchups were shes completely boned against said character. Its hard saying exactly why shes so bottom. I don't particularly care because I'm maining her either way. But it just has me curious. Maybe its the reasons I stated before. Maybe Japan just doesn't know what to do with her exactly. Or maybe she just sucks. Makes me wonder how she will do outside of Japan once the game is released. I really look forward to it.
Kakimori Posted June 15, 2013 Posted June 15, 2013 I dunno, I've seen her hang with Kaqn's Ragna so it's not like she's crap. It's just there aren't many people playing her, and I'm sure there are shenanigans with her 2nd distortion that haven't been uncovered yet. I was wondering...how come people don't teleport with her in neutral more for mind games (kinda like Arakune)? It doesn't take meter (except for D) and you can cancel teleports into each other, right?
Ctrlaltwtf Posted June 15, 2013 Posted June 15, 2013 (edited) I'm sure plenty of people can win with her. That doesn't make her high/average-tier. Tiers are only relevant in a theoretical situation that two players of the exact same skill are playing. And then it gets undermined even further by MUs being far more important. Though despite saying that, bottom-tier is the best. When you win you can rub it in their face and when you lose you can be like "Heh I almost beat you with a C-tier" Not to mention you almost always get stupidly buffed in the next iteration. Edited June 15, 2013 by Ctrlaltwtf
Surf Posted June 15, 2013 Posted June 15, 2013 Canceling teleports into each other? No thats them just linking the teleports (doing one after the other recovers). And all the times Ive seen an Izayoi try to teleport during neutral, they get smacked in the face for it. Every time I've seen so far. Right here is a perfect example. Izayoi player started doing it and the Amane literally smacks him in the face. Gets FC'd and put in the corner, just because it wanted to style. Imo, its just not smart to do. And teleports have a lot more recovery (numberwise) then it seems. What I do wonder is why players don't use D teleport for sonic sabre cross ups or the other teleports after slashing specials. All of which she can teleport off of on block, hit, and whiff with the D version.
Chaoschao222 Posted June 15, 2013 Posted June 15, 2013 Not to mention you almost always get stupidly buffed in the next iteration. Just ask Tager up until CSX.
Ctrlaltwtf Posted June 15, 2013 Posted June 15, 2013 (edited) Just ask Tager up until CSX. I said "almost" for a reason I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see Izayoi getting some buffs in the future though. With regards to the teleports, I get the distinct impression there's something really really awkward about using them that's difficult to discern at a glance. Otherwise we'd be seeing them everywhere. Edited June 15, 2013 by Ctrlaltwtf
Kakimori Posted June 15, 2013 Posted June 15, 2013 Surf, that Izayoi did 3 forward teleports in a row...
Surf Posted June 15, 2013 Posted June 15, 2013 Did you mean mind game teleports as in doing 214A in gain art to fake a cross up with 214D or something. You said in neutral so i thought in general
Kakimori Posted June 16, 2013 Posted June 16, 2013 That too, but also just stuff like 214B > 214B > 214A so they TRY to smack you in the face then you have a slight advantage to run in or something; or 214C instead of backstep to get out of some pressure. That kinda thing.
Surf Posted June 16, 2013 Posted June 16, 2013 Ive seen some players do it to get out of tbe corner or pressure rarely. It seems to be something to take into consideration to use, but not something to rely on for escaping said pressure. I saw Shimotsuki i think, doing 214A 2-3 times on someones wakeup for mind games. Then he got smacked in the face for it because he was still in recovery from the last one once they finished teching
Kakimori Posted June 16, 2013 Posted June 16, 2013 (edited) Do you know if 214B/214D can take you behind someone even if they're all the way in the corner? EDIT: Nevermind, just read that D crosses up even when back is in corner, so assuming that means B doesn't. EDIT: Actually, Kaichou shows some cool teleport mind games in a blockstring of one of the new videos! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaiyWrXu-Mk&t=29m30s Edited June 16, 2013 by Kakimori
Surf Posted June 17, 2013 Posted June 17, 2013 (edited) 214B can cross up if their not completely in the corner. 214D crosses up indefinitely Funny that right when I post that I see this immediately afterwards. I was rying to see if a normal may have sucked Amane out of the corner leaving a gap for Izayoi to 214B in. But it looks like he straight up has his back against it. Edited June 17, 2013 by Surf
Kakimori Posted June 17, 2013 Posted June 17, 2013 (edited) It seems that if there's any real problem with her, it's that her pressure and strings are almost too cookie-cutter with not a lot of room for variety or different play styles. The Japanese commentators complain sometimes that she has to waste a lot of gauge points just to apply pressure, but they also say "Wow, seeing Shimotsuki play her makes me think she's actually pretty good!" and stuff like that, which is nice. EDIT: After watching the video you just linked, they're basically just talking all the time about how awesome Shimotsuki is XD But I'm sure there's a lot to learn still. Is there any video of someone using her second DD effectively? Sometimes people just seem to throw out the first DD as a spacing tool, not even caring if it gets blocked. Edited June 17, 2013 by Kakimori
Surf Posted June 17, 2013 Posted June 17, 2013 I don't think the use of stars during pressure hurts her so much. Purely because of the damage she can get off a small amount of stars off a common starter. And they aren't terribly hard to get. She's like Tsubaki but instead of sacrificing momentum to gain more combo damage and paths, being more aggressive rewards her with more of said stars. Some of the more optimal corner gain art combos Ive seen average around 3.8-4k+. And all that's without the use of meter. Just a j.C/2B 50-50 mixup starter and 2-3 stars. She also has combos where she switches modes in between it and the cost can be 0. Since she uses 2 stars and gains them back within the same combo, and those combos do about 3.8k+. On her low atk time combo starters she can just go into 6B/3C oki into hover j.236D or hover j.B safejumps if you don't want to use any stars I mean, if your being really gimmicky with constant D teleports or 236D during her pressure then yes it will cost you a lot. But like I said in my post the other day, she has a lot more options than that. I remember some player using Trans-Am a lot a couple months back but I don't remember the name. Wasn't someone that appeared often though.
Kakimori Posted June 17, 2013 Posted June 17, 2013 Regarding teleports, it's stuff like this I think is cool (regardless of what happened shortly afterwards). In a way, she reminds me a lot of Valkenhayn...her freaky near-instant overheads and special movement options. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1Q6QbpyMZM&t=4m45s
Zeromus_X Posted June 17, 2013 Posted June 17, 2013 Is her JUSTICE super safe on block? Seems like you have to make it whiff to get a real punish. I lol'd when she combo'd after it on wakeup. Oh man, OD D Sonic Sabre summons all of the swords. That Shimotsuki guy does some cool stuff, makes her look more solid than people are giving her credit for.
Surf Posted June 17, 2013 Posted June 17, 2013 Its -20 but the pushback is so great its "safe" in a way. Shes fully invul from frames 1-15 upon its use. If you get her to whiff it in normal mode shes boned. In gain art you can just bait the teleport after the whiff and punish
Velvien Posted June 17, 2013 Posted June 17, 2013 Yeah, Justice Phorizer's very safe. Pretty much has to whiff to be punished, and even then, I rarely see her get punished
Surf Posted June 17, 2013 Posted June 17, 2013 There are probably many unconventional ways some characters can punish her for attempting it though. Most common I see now is Ragna's using his DP to clash with the supers hit then DPings again to CH her. It most likely counts as a projectile too, which a lot of characters have answers to unfortunately.
Errol Posted June 17, 2013 Posted June 17, 2013 Wow her guaranteed damage on her super is total trash.
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now