[CP] Izayoi Gameplay Discussion - Tobe! Gandamu!

[onemic]

thanks

Another thing. Why is Izayoi considered bottom tier by Japanese players? It seems like she has a lot of tools to constantly mixup and confuse opponents with ease. Is it really just because of the fact that she has to net hits on hit/block to gain stocks for GA mode or is she simply a more complex character compared to Terumi/Azrael and others and therefore she isn't fully explored yet?

I didn't even know she could stance cancel her normals like Johnny to make them safer. Couldn't you theoretically create some nasty frametraps by fully utilizing her SC's? I also never see her Trans-am used, but based on what it says in the wiki isn't it an additonal pressure tool like Litchi or car carl's super that can lock down opponents and force additional pressure? Why is it never used?

Edited October 28, 2013 by onemic

[Justice7541]

I think it's mostly just a function of not being substantially better than any of the other high tiers even in GA and having to work for it in a normal mode that is substantially worse. It's not super hard to get stocks but there are ways for a good player to deny them and then you have to take risks just for a chance to even the playing field.

Also stuff like weak AA options and lack of meterless defensive options.

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[TransientFaith]

I'll second what justice said. Weak AA really hurts. No DP in a very pressure-centric game (other than super) doesn't help. Defense in general is pretty bad.

On top of that you have: Generally inconsistent due to the way you get resources. Fairly weak mixup game in normal mode (teleports aren't real mixup tools... so its mostly just frametraps).

Trans-Am is just not practical. 4 stocks, 50 meter, gain-art mode. It also lasts a pretty short amount of time that really doesn't give you "better" mixup. With the 4 stocks, you could just punish something with super in gain art into a 4-5k combo which is what you would get in Trans-Am anyways. It's definitely hype tho!!

[Ciddypoo]

If you get caught blocking, it seems like you'll be blocking for a very long time.

[strawberry]

If you get caught blocking, it seems like you'll be blocking for a very long time.

We're playing Yukiko again :'(. just like Justice said shes got pretty weak defensive options, so once an opponent rushes you down you'll be blocking for awhile too. I also hope I'm not the only one who thinks this, but her buttons aren't the best. stand B is pretty slow I think its 10 frames? However the range is really good cancelling into projectile and teleport I guess... If you do land the hit with stand B and are point blank you can follow up with 5C, 236B into your normal mode bnb, but if you're too far yo dat 5C has no range and you'll whiff or If you're late on the 236B its -16, I haven't gotten punished yet but I'm sure people will learn lol

[Dark Ranger88]

I never realized how baller Makoto's 2A was until now. We basically have to super or jump out of everything, because our 2A is as slow as some people's 5Bs (don't even mention the "Whiff Machine" aka 5A).

I'm gonna see how IB 6A works. The guard point starts up on the sixth frame so it's kind of like having a 5 frame jab that won't whiff on crouchers. Right?

[Starkaiser]

How does JP rate Izayo atm for the tournament?

Rank A? rank B? Hope it is not C..

[Justice7541]

How does JP rate Izayo atm for the tournament?

Rank A? rank B? Hope it is not C..

I think most people have her pegged as one of the worst characters in the game if not straight up the worst. It's all relative to the matchups though I guess.

On a more positive note, she gets safejump setup off pretty much everything. Any combo ending in Strike Fall or Phorizer > forward dash or forward jump j.C land (safejump) 2B/dash j.C is a pretty dirty mixup. So is dash j.C jump cancel j.C RC j.C for the fuzzy double overhead.

[Starkaiser]

If she is that bad everybody mention about, the official dev should already know this and adjust her? the game has been released on arcade for like a year already.

balance adjustment is usually most fatal thing in this kind of genre, which they can patch it.

[Kenji-Koto]

Someone has to be on bottom, and Tsubaki is pretty notorious for that. Games shouldn't be patched unless new content is added w/o play testing imo.

[Appledash-]

Trans-Am is just not practical. It's definitely hype tho!!

I know, right!? I want someone to find something cool with it but I don't see it happening unless something changes

[skd]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dA1OxlUTeFc

hey! im gonna try to throw stuff onto the wiki before i touch the combo thread, i wanted to approach the combo thread as combo theory w/ suggestions and breakdowns of routes and options (i think i know her combo options well enough at this point for this) instead of lists (since the wiki IS supposed to be more beginner oriented...) i think combo listings would be better suited there. what do you guys think?

I know, right!? I want someone to find something cool with it but I don't see it happening unless something changes

Trans-am invuln, punish with taunt (trans am connects) phorizer teleport etc etc haha

Edited October 29, 2013 by not_lunaris

[Justice7541]

More ways to go through spark bolt are always welcome.

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[Dark Ranger88]

Trying to get good in the arcade lobby is frustrating. Whenever I lose to someone they never want to face me again. And if I jump on someone's machine when a match ends the winner will just go looking for someone else after he beats me. It's like they're saying, "Wow you fucking suck. Playing you would just be a waste of my time."

Well sorry if my day 3 Izayoi isn't as good as the slightly altered main you've been using for years, jackass. I'll need lots of practice before I get good.

I'm going to make them all pay dearly as soon as I get comfortable with this bitch though. Watch out.

[Justice7541]

Hey I played you a few times. It was horrible and you sucked so bad but I put up with it.

I'm just kidding of course, they were ggs.

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[RurouniLoneWolf]

*Gives Dark Ranger a much needed hug*

There there, it's okay. I'm sure you'll get super strong and squash all those people like bugs one day, lol. But on a serious note, try befriending some Dustloopers or just people you run into that don't mind playing you and join their rooms/lobbies. You'll probably get longer sets that way

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dA1OxlUTeFc

hey! im gonna try to throw stuff onto the wiki before i touch the combo thread, i wanted to approach the combo thread as combo theory w/ suggestions and breakdowns of routes and options (i think i know her combo options well enough at this point for this) instead of lists (since the wiki IS supposed to be more beginner oriented...) i think combo listings would be better suited there. what do you guys think?

If you're going to list the actual combos in the wiki, I don't see why not. Combo theory might actually be more useful for beginners at the end of the day anyway. Worst case scenario, you could always add a line at the beginning of the opening post that goes along the lines of "A list of her combos can be found on the wiki [insert Link Here]"

[- Stasis -]

Am I the only one having a hard time getting 6B > RC > air dash to continue my pressure... consistently? just need to practice more. 6B has nice range and gets dirty once you mix it in with your feint strings. Atm people aren't afraid of her normal mode and seem to be worried about their feet (CH 236) more than anything. I love the sick GA combos, but I've been using most of my meter for RCs or reversal atm.

OD at the start of the round seems like the thing to do vs a lot of the cast, as she can do a lot with 4 stocks vs trying to gain 4.

And thanks for those 8 stock combos ^^

[Celerity]

It seems like OD shaves one frame of recovery from Strike Fall, allowing you to link 5A in combos where it normally wouldn't be possible, or at least making it much easier.

[Dark Ranger88]

I have to say I like cooking 236C while zoning. The opponent is always like, "Durr hurr hurr! He's stuck doing the anti-air special. I got 'im! Time to run in huehuehue!!!"

Nope...Thanks for the two stocks bitch.

[kazukifafner]

I have to say, the one nice thing about using Izayoi is that she really makes me learn how to deal with pressure. Lack of a reversal outside of super makes for a lot of blocking when need be.

I've always been finding out that a lot of moves hit behind the attacker as well -_-

[Dark Ranger88]

Do you guys think we should have some sort of Gain Art Pressure/Mixup thread? I've come up with a few things (even though I spend so much time in normal mode GA pressure feels funky whenever I get a knockdown).

[Celerity]

Do you guys think we should have some sort of Gain Art Pressure/Mixup thread? I've come up with a few things (even though I spend so much time in normal mode GA pressure feels funky whenever I get a knockdown).

Yes please, my pressure sucks. I'm just doing the standard j.C > Swords and j.C into 2B/j.236C/j.B fuzzy stuff.

[kazukifafner]

Oki game in GA mode can be tricky because of how I-no dash basically forces you to commit to whatever plan you came up with. Other than that, though, Izayoi's mixup game seems pretty straight forward. Your best bet (especially in the corner) for oki pressure is probably something like 2366jD after knockdown for some quick pseudo-TK swords. Her general mixup is mostly just quickly alternating between high and low.

So, like, you can go 66jC > 2B; or 66jC > 66jC; or an empty dash into either of those; or an empty dash into throw, or 66jC > 6B. Of course, you can also throw in D swords and teleport for effect. Izayoi's GA mixup isn't horribly complex, it's just very fast and fairly solid. You do have to read how much your opponent respects you though. Remember, you're still playing Izayoi, so pretty much everyone has better normals than you, lol

[Tari]

Dunno if it was mentioned yet, but it's worth noting is that GA mode's 2C is useful as a pressure reset. It's +4 on block, so you can do it and then follow it up with a non-gatling'd normal like 2B, jump cancel it and do tk Noir, or just keep going and cancel it into whatever special moves. Don't cancel into GA 3C or GA 6C, though, haha....

GA mode dash > air dash > j.A > j.B/j.C is a fuzzy, as well, though if you do hit with the j.A and combo into the j.B/j.C, you'll have to settle for a shorter combo.

Edited October 31, 2013 by Tari

[Dark Ranger88]

2A > 2C xN on people without DPs. Goes into itself infinitely. Negates barrier pushback. Can't be mashed out of. They either have to IB jump or backdash. Easy to confirm 2C into 236C for GA combos.

If they respect this and sit, you can go in with dash mixup or tick throws after 2A or 2C.

You can go for a crossup j.C by simply jumping forward after a blocked 66 j.C. Although it's hard to confirm because 5C will whiff.