[CP] Izayoi Gameplay Discussion - Tobe! Gandamu!

[Justice7541]

For the first time, Izayoi's on equal footing with about 81% of the cast \o/

Seriously, like Tari said, most characters are pretty fucked by it anyways.

IIRC most characters can super or OD super to get out and even punish. Some even get out without meter. I think there's only like 5-6 characters who require astral/get totally fucked. Hazama is funny cause he needs OD astral which is kinda even worse than having nothing.

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[Andarel]

Tager gets out for free, so everything is right with the world.

[Tari]

IIRC most characters can super or OD super to get out and even punish. Some even get out without meter. I think there's only like 5-6 characters who require astral/get totally fucked. Hazama is funny cause he needs OD astral which is kinda even worse than having nothing.

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The only characters who can super out are those who have a super that moves them forward really far. Things like Bang's Daifunka, or Valkenhayn's dashing super, I believe. Any character without a dashing super or command dash with invuln (Carl/Kokonoe) are pretty much screwed.

I believe that in the corner, even Tager can get screwed up with the right spacing. His sledge doesn't get passed Kokonoe, so he just gets sucked into the blackhole. Apparently he can OD + MTW to get through it, but... that's not a very elegant answer.

Hakumen is also pretty much dead in all of those setups, since they can do setups where he can't Yukikaze.

If they do a bad setup, you can burst her out of her super startup or roll out of the setup, but that only applies when they use bad setups in the first place. :/

Izayoi really isn't much worse off in this than other characters, I don't think. If the opponent tries to call out a double jump (or a low air tech or something) with a blackhole, Izayoi can just teleport behind her anyway. Though, in that situation, most characters can probably do something to deal with it.

Edited November 13, 2013 by Tari

[Justice7541]

The only characters who can super out are those who have a super that moves them forward really far. Things like Bang's Daifunka, or Valkenhayn's dashing super, I believe. Any character without a dashing super or command dash with invuln (Carl/Kokonoe) are pretty much screwed.

I believe that in the corner, even Tager can get screwed up with the right spacing. His sledge doesn't get passed Kokonoe, so he just gets sucked into the blackhole. Apparently he can OD + MTW to get through it, but... that's not a very elegant answer.

Hakumen is also pretty much dead in all of those setups, since they can do setups where he can't Yukikaze.

If they do a bad setup, you can burst her out of her super startup or roll out of the setup, but that only applies when they use bad setups in the first place. :/

Izayoi really isn't much worse off in this than other characters, I don't think. If the opponent tries to call out a double jump (or a low air tech or something) with a blackhole, Izayoi can just teleport behind her anyway. Though, in that situation, most characters can probably do something to deal with it.

That's actually quite a few characters though. There's a list of characters who can get out with what options in Kokonoe sub-forum and the number of characters who get totally screwed is less than the number who can get out with meter and/or OD, or just straight-up get out free, i.e. Azrael. Just off the top of my head, characters with invul dash supers: Valk, Bang, Bullet, Terumi, Ragna, Tao, Litchi, Amane.

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[Tari]

We have a cast of 26 characters. That's 8 characters.

Litchi doesn't actually count, either, since she only gets out if the Kokonoe messes up. Carl, who's not on your list, gets out for free.

I don't believe Bullet or Tao's dashing supers actually push the opponent, either, so they end up recovering on the black hole.

In any case, yes, Izayoi gets bopped by the black hole setup. It sucks, but there's nothing we can do about it. If you find a solution, let us know, otherwise the rest of the black hole discussion is more fit for the Kokonoe forums at this point.

On an unrelated note, I somehow reversal super + teleported out of Litchi's Thirteen Orphans on wakeup yesterday. I feel like that shouldn't be possible, but I haven't really bothered testing it more.

Edited November 13, 2013 by Tari

[iora]

invul on super laster past the active frames. check the frame data and i guess see when super can be tele-cancelled?

[skd]

Doesn't matter, tele has startup, hole still active.

[Tari]

Doesn't matter, tele has startup, hole still active.

I think he was talking about my teleporting out of Litchi's super. It makes sense, since Litchi probably got hit by the reversal super. Didn't pay enough attention to know for sure the circumstances.

[skd]

Oops, I thought he was talking about doing it to black hole lol

[iora]

yea, i meant @ litchi stuff

[crimsonstardust]

What do you guys feel about using Trans-am? I don't like the meter trade off but being able to combo off 6B doesn't sound bad either, though I suppose you can just RC it.

[iora]

i would if it was just meter, but meter and 4 stars? not worth in my mind.

maybe for a silly max od max punish combo? who knows

[Rhannmah]

Has it been mentioned that you can use the airgrab whiff during hoverdash to cancel it early and make yourself fall faster?

[Tari]

I don't know if it's been explained explicitly, but there's definitely been talk of it around here before.

It's information that's probably worth mentioning somewhere visible, I suppose. It should be noted that if you're doing it at a distance where you won't hit the opponent, it's better to just whiff j.B or j.C (though why you would be doing it out there I don't know).

[crimsonstardust]

News to me that throw whiffing makes you fall faster, gives me a few ideas I wanna test out later.

[Rhannmah]

yeah, as an added bonus you get a airgrab if they try to jump out of your mixup

[abadlime]

dat off screen purple grab...

true justice scumbag.

EDIT: so is there any reason when i do D teleport, i get grounded while they're still airborne? i notice this happens a bit and some happen at awful moments.

Edited November 15, 2013 by abadlime

[crimsonstardust]

dat off screen purple grab...

true justice scumbag.

EDIT: so is there any reason when i do D teleport, i get grounded while they're still airborne? i notice this happens a bit and some happen at awful moments.

I tested that out just now for yea, it seems like as their are falling down from a jump and are around the height of her head it tracks to the ground.

Edited November 15, 2013 by crimsonstardust

[Tari]

It tracks depending on how far off the ground they are, I believe. It could be more complicated than that, but generally speaking, if they aren't very high, you shouldn't expect to teleport into the sky.

[crimsonstardust]

I looked into what you might be able to do with the fast fall air grab during a GA dash, I was hoping you could do a ghetto high low mix up with it but its still possible to just react to her whiffing a throw and just block low, though I think that in itself could create a mix up cause you do fall fast enough to dash again right away and use jC and possibly catch them still blocking low. I think it could work if you trained your opponent to block high against her and then low right away. You can sneak a ground throw in after you land from the whiff throw, so I guess it can create some mix ups.

[Dark Ranger88]

Her airthrow looks an awful lot like her j.C though. Your opponent will just see armor pieces flailing about and feel that the high is coming. The only thing that might give it away is Izayoi reaching her hand out.

I've been using the airthrow whiff into other stuff and it does work for the most part. Land > Grab has had the most success for me. However some people try to block high and accidentally jump, which lets them get out even though they had no idea what they were doing. Needless to say there are also some people who will mash 5A no matter what, they will always hit you out of this even if it made no sense for them to be mashing in the first place.

[Tari]

Against people who mash 5A, you shouldn't even bother running mixup. Just hit them in the face a few times with 5B or something and end the game.

The throw whiff can be used as mixup, because people will likely be waiting for the block before they actually switch to blocking low. Even if they aren't, the fall is much faster than normal just because there's no actual hit occurring. It's risky, it loses to 6A like everything else you do from a dash in GA mode, and it isn't something you should be doing all the time, but it's worth knowing and keeping on hand for when you want to try something else.

[Rhannmah]

well, the point of this is to fall faster from a hoverdash hop, so it's useful in that sense. I guess the best use for this is after a blocked 236D so while they're getting pounded by swords you have access to a faster mixup. Also, in neutral situations, if they try to jump out they will get grabbed. Speaking of which, what's the best confirm for her airgrab? The best i can do it seems is something like airgrab > hop j.c > 5c > j.b > j.c > j.b > j.c > noir edge > strike fall, is there something i'm missing?

[Tari]

The lowest cost confirm is the one you're doing. There's also Air Throw > 6C > air combo for stability, but it does really mediocre damage. The other path involves air grab into 236C > 6D > etc. for a normal combo route.

6C route - 2.6k damage (1 stock)

j.C route - 2.8k damage (1 stock)

air throw > 236C > 6D > 214B > 5B > 5C > sj.B > j.C > jc j.B > j.C > j.236C > j.D - 3267 (3160 without 5B) (2 stock)

[Rhannmah]

is there a RC trick on 2nd hit or something like there is for ground grabs?