[CP] Izayoi Gameplay Discussion - Tobe! Gandamu!

[Tari]

If you can confirm something directly into 5C, by all means, do it. However, you'll likely often find that you're too far away from the opponent to confirm into 5C, in which case confirming into 5B is always the right answer.

Confirming something into 5B > 5C can actually be less than optimal in some situations, where you end up shoving the opponent too far away to do the followup combos you want to do. The extra hit can also lower damage in a long combo, as well as waste some of your overall remaining combo timer.

That said, 5B > 5C will get you more damage in a shorter combo than directly confirming into 5C, so you just have to decide what you want in a given situation.

[Cambuki]

Can anyone tell me what the trans am distortion drive is used for lol...... Is it for combos or better blockstrings lol?

[Chaoschao222]

It's used for showing your opponent you didn't need that 50 heat to beat them anyways.

[Cambuki]

Lol k good to know

[Rhannmah]

Actually, if it only used 50 heat i'd be using it all the time, but those 4 stocks? WTF where they smoking

[Chaoschao222]

Just give Izayoi U. Izayoi's Trans-Am and you'll have an actual move \o/

[Tari]

Can anyone tell me what the trans am distortion drive is used for lol...... Is it for combos or better blockstrings lol?

If you're going for a kill combo midscreen and you have the meter/stock to burn, trans-am is optimal. You get 6k+ from a 5C starter. It's not impossible to be in that situation, really, since it only needs 70-ish meter to perform it. The rare part is having the 6 stock or 7 stock you'll be burning during the combo.

[Celerity]

Midscreen counterhit/crouching into 2C > Trans-Am does a little more damage than Phorizer combos, but really only shines at 75-100 heat.

There are various ways to combo into Trans-Am that let you end with the bit hitting the opponent for a decent standing reset into mixup. Unfortunately, unless you have a 6C(normal) FC starter, it seems like you give up too much damage, and since you use 5-6 stars for the combo itself, it doesn't leave you with much to finish them if your mixup connects.

[Cambuki]

So just counter hit 2c into normal bnb?

[Celerity]

So just counter hit 2c into normal bnb?

That's normally the best route for CH/crouching midscreen, but Phorizer combos do slightly less (like 20) damage at 50 heat, and significantly less at 100 heat. Also, Phorizer combos require you to be around half stage distance, whereas Trans-Am can be done anywhere.

Stuff > 2C > Trans-Am! > 5C > 2C > 236C~6D > 214B > 5C > 2C(1) > 236B > 214B > 5C > 2C(1) > 6C > j.C > jc > (j.B) > j.C > j.236C~D

The 100 heat version requires you to omit 6C and do some fancy j.A's to get them high enough for Phorizer to hit. I don't remember exactly, but it's hard. With OD you can connect a 236D into CT somewhere for very good damage. Alternately, you can just use the OD swords to set up your standing reset.

[Adam0812]

If you're going for a kill combo midscreen and you have the meter/stock to burn, trans-am is optimal. You get 6k+ from a 5C starter. It's not impossible to be in that situation, really, since it only needs 70-ish meter to perform it. The rare part is having the 6 stock or 7 stock you'll be burning during the combo.

Care to share a trans-am combo from 5c??

[Cambuki]

I know this may not be a question for izayoi thread but idk where else to post... How do i find matches online i normally went to a world on the left side of world select, but since that Christmas event started no one goes there anymore. Every world i try is the same thing a red 0 connection. Any help would be appreciated.

[crimsonstardust]

You probably should take that question to this area, its more about the online aspect of Blazblue.

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?95-BlazBlue-Online-Play

[Rhannmah]

I think i found something interesting. I've been looking for corner oki gain arts setup that covers all wakeup options, here's what i found : from the traditional corner combo starter route dash j.c -> 2b -> 5b -> 236c-6d -> 2c(2) -> ..5c -> 2c(1) -> 236b -> 214a ; from there, i used to go into 2b -> 5c -> air ender with strike fall, but i was looking for an option that didn't spend an extra stock for a paltry 300 something more damage, so there's the (after the 214a) 5c -> 2c(1) route which, in itself, gives knockdown. I've seen players end that route with 6b, but i feel it doesn't give good oki. You can always crusade seraphim stance cancel, but i found that if you cancel the last 2c(1) with 214b, you end up right behind your opponent and if you cancel that teleport into 2c, it comes out at JUST the right timing to catch tech rolls, resets the combo counter on a late tech, and hits them on the very last frames of the 2nd hit of the 2c if they emergency tech, which can be linked into 5a -> 5c. It seems to cover every tech option possible. This would require testing, but i suspect that it recovers quickly enough to be safe from most reversals, not to mention that it reverses your opponent's inputs. The final combo looks like this : dash j.c -> 2b -> 5b -> 236c-6d -> 2c(2) -> ..5c -> 2c(1) -> 236b -> 214a -> 5c -> 2c(1) -> 214b -> 2c. If they do anything other than emergency tech, they get reset and popped into the air with the 2c for 2c(2) -> ..5c -> 2c(1) -> 236b -> 214a -> 2b -> 5c -> air ender. If you're worried about taking them out of the corner, you even have the time to do a second air combo after the first by canceling the 1st noir edge with a D teleport to put them right back in the corner.

Try it out, i'm pretty sure this has some good potential! (unless i missed something)

edit: actually, a perfectly timed late tech will completely evade the 2c, but you recover before them so you can still go into mixup afterwards. I wouldn't worry about that one too much though.

Edited January 7, 2014 by Rhannmah

[crimsonstardust]

Hmm, well doesn't sound like a bad set up, I'll try this out when I play with a local in a couple of days and see how it works. I usually like using the oki set up after strike fall in a corner combo to dash back a little and set up a meaty D sonic sabre, I dunno if it catches late tech but I know it catches forward tech.

[Rhannmah]

Late tech evades D sonic sabre completely. That's why i was looking for alternative setups to strike fall, because that's two wasted stocks right there. Also, if you're too close they can even front roll into you and make sonic sabre whiff by pushing your character away. I really wanted something more guaranteed.

[Wild Candy]

Just a quick question, what exactly are the best Oki set ups after knock down? Particularly after Strike Fall knock down?

[crimsonstardust]

Well there's the one that Rhannmah was talking about a few posts back, haven't been able to try it myself yet. One that I personally like to do is dash back D sonic sabre, if they try to forward roll it will catch them, I think its the same for back roll but haven't tried, its a meaty set up so they do have to block it on neutral tech but a delayed tech will be able to get through this, though I haven't seen to many people actually do that yet. There's also doing safe jump jC for your typical DP baits. There's one gimmicky one that's safe after a strike fall, if you do 214B and they neutral tech you can get behind them, though most people don't realize there is an audio cue for her teleports so if your opponent is aware of that they can block correctly, this is actually pretty safe cause you recover sooner then they tech. You also have to consider the height you do strike fall at cause it can change your okis slightly. Do note that these are corner okis, I usually work on trying to push my opponent to the corner cause I feel like you options to mix your opponent up are more potent.

Though generally I suggest safe jump jC cause they doesn't take resources and you don't loose your positioning, and if they burst in your face your not in the corner at least.

[Rhannmah]

I think i found something interesting. I've been looking for corner oki gain arts setup that covers all wakeup options, here's what i found : from the traditional corner combo starter route dash j.c -> 2b -> 5b -> 236c-6d -> 2c(2) -> ..5c -> 2c(1) -> 236b -> 214a ; from there, i used to go into 2b -> 5c -> air ender with strike fall, but i was looking for an option that didn't spend an extra stock for a paltry 300 something more damage, so there's the (after the 214a) 5c -> 2c(1) route which, in itself, gives knockdown. I've seen players end that route with 6b, but i feel it doesn't give good oki. You can always crusade seraphim stance cancel, but i found that if you cancel the last 2c(1) with 214b, you end up right behind your opponent and if you cancel that teleport into 2c, it comes out at JUST the right timing to catch tech rolls, resets the combo counter on a late tech, and hits them on the very last frames of the 2nd hit of the 2c if they emergency tech, which can be linked into 5a -> 5c. It seems to cover every tech option possible. This would require testing, but i suspect that it recovers quickly enough to be safe from most reversals, not to mention that it reverses your opponent's inputs. The final combo looks like this : dash j.c -> 2b -> 5b -> 236c-6d -> 2c(2) -> ..5c -> 2c(1) -> 236b -> 214a -> 5c -> 2c(1) -> 214b -> 2c. If they do anything other than emergency tech, they get reset and popped into the air with the 2c for 2c(2) -> ..5c -> 2c(1) -> 236b -> 214a -> 2b -> 5c -> air ender. If you're worried about taking them out of the corner, you even have the time to do a second air combo after the first by canceling the 1st noir edge with a D teleport to put them right back in the corner.

Try it out, i'm pretty sure this has some good potential! (unless i missed something)

edit: actually, a perfectly timed late tech will completely evade the 2c, but you recover before them so you can still go into mixup afterwards. I wouldn't worry about that one too much though.

I've put this into practice last week, and it works like a charm. No one tried to roll out of it , but most people didn't even block and just got hit. Usually, this'll be the finishing combo, since after a corner carry combo AND a corner combo for this setup, they'll be pretty hurt already. It seems to be quite safe to DP's, and i've seen it beat Jin's EX DP clean, I don't know how that even happened. Requires more testing, but it seems to be an incredible setup so far.

Just a quick question, what exactly are the best Oki set ups after knock down? Particularly after Strike Fall knock down?

A good setup after strike fall that i've been using is a simple safe jump to bait out reversal attempts. I just wait until they hit the ground from strike fall and jump as soon as they hit and use j.C when coming down, if they emergency tech you get a safe jump, if they roll you usually catch that with j.C, if they late tech, you can always go into hoverdash mixup. D sonic sabre is good, but it's too easy to evade with late techs, and you really can't spare any stocks with Izayoi, you NEED them to do any sort of decent damage in gain art.

Edited January 13, 2014 by Rhannmah

[FriskyJacket]

What would be the best way they could buff izayoi? Maybe in gain arts she gains an extra air dash. Or gain arts j.c is now air dash cancel able? Something to improve her mix up would be good I think.

[Rhannmah]

Izayoi's mixup is one of the best in the game. Her problem lies in getting to the situation where she can apply said mixup; she really lacks the tools to lockdown the opponent and make them take the mixup. To add insult to injury, she needs a buildup phase before even going to her mixup mode. Her mixup is perfect, it's actually everything else that's the problem. She needs faster teleports(something like what Moriya has in Last Blade 2), better oki tools (look at Kagura's projectile, she needs something that has the same functionality in locking down the opponent on wakeup), better normals and better tools to force the opponent to block from neutral. Sonic sabre play would be cute in street fighter, but it doesn't cut it at all for a game like Blazblue where some characters can travel the entire screen in half a second. She sorely needs better tools, and/or a complete revamp of her gain art mode mechanics.

[Rhannmah]

well apparently, the setup i've been describing in my last posts gets beaten by... not doing anything. It just blue beats. Thank you training mode for not showing me that.

Sigh, so much for that. WTB guaranteed oki plz

[crimsonstardust]

My real issue with Izayoi is I wish she had a normal that can act as a decent anti air, doesn't need to be head invulnerable just something that hits vertical for it to work with me. I agree the teleports could be stronger cause they aren't that strong considering characters like Azrael and Arakune basically have them as dashes, but at the same time I don't think it hinders her enough for it to be something she needs. I think she could of had something like a gain arts only DP sort of like how Jin has the meter version of DP, I find it a tad weird out of all her specials there isn't a DP motion version. Eh kind of sucks as Izayoi players we have to work a lot harder to makes things work.

On a related note, does anyone have any hit box/hurt box data on her? I've been wanting to see some info on that to try and compare 5As hit/hurt box with other characters that have a strong 5A that can be used as an anti air. Like I mentioned anti airing is one of my problems with her, I know 623B/C work but use the wrong one and its a free get in.

Edited January 17, 2014 by crimsonstardust

[Rhannmah]

I feel it's kinda flawed to have to spend combo and knockdown opportunities just to powerup a mode that would only be -decent- if it had infinite stocks. Other characters can be 100% threatening from the get go while Izayoi struggles just to get to a point where she can be -somewhat- threatening. Mentioned it in my previous post, but she really needs a tool to force a block at neutral midscreen and farther, one to force a block on wakeup and better normals; her air normals are horrible at air control and all 3 do the same thing, attack downwards in front of her and she needs an anti-air that leads to a combo, not a blowback all the way across the screen which is the last place you want your opponent to be. Also not one that is friggin -12f on block without any gatlings or cancels short of rapid.

What I'd like this character to be is a goddamn rape machine in gain art mode, but only be able to keep it active for, for example, a number of seconds equivalent to the number of stocks you have, instead of having moves eat up stocks. Also, why is it necessary to have a 25f stance change between modes? Would be much more interesting if you could change modes on the fly like Gen from Street Fighter can do.

All in all, this character just feels incomplete and not well thought out. Lots of potential though.

Edited January 17, 2014 by Rhannmah

[CeruleanEdge125]

For me, I just wish her defensive options were similar to Jin's. C DP having full body invul and B DP having head invul. Right now she's so easily bullied because the options she does have aren't very reliable. Simply having C DP to get out of pressure would fix not only that, but off counter-hit that 8 stocks and she can go ham, hell you'd even be able to get a corner switch out of that and pretty much turn the tide of the battle. I also wish she could have better air normals, but her current options pretty much imply that she should be on the ground in normal mode, which I'm personally fine with since I don't like to really jump around all that much and hate when I have to chase after people who do so, but that's just me. I feel like I had a whole list of things, but this point is the one I really wish we had. Yeah, we have to work harder, but I'm at the point where I feel like I'm losing because of bad fundamentals, specifically horrible neutral, than the character itself being that bad so my complaints are limited. Well that and a lack of creativity. :/